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  #51  
Old 02-04-2011, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

MOAR COMPETENT THAN RL!!!

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  #52  
Old 03-17-2011, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Newsweek has an interesting article on our crappy non-system of death investigation. One point it focuses on that the Frontline story didn't is that even beyond the nightmare politics, undue police/prosecutorial influence and lack of oversight, forensic investigation is in some ways not really grounded in scientific principles at all.

Oh shit...At the heart of these criticisms is the issue of what scientists call validity and reliability. A test is valid if its results are factually accurate. A test is reliable if multiple tests will lead to the same conclusion. Some forensics tests, like blood typing, are very reliable: no matter how many times your doctor draws your blood, you will always have the same blood type. Occasionally there are mistakes, of course, but they are predictable: blood-typing tests have well-documented and well-understood error rates. Others, like hair comparison, are unreliable: studies have shown that multiple technicians examining the same two hairs—even the same technician examining the same two hairs at different times—come to multiple conclusions. Critics say that many of forensic science's most basic tools are neither reliable nor valid.

For example, at the trial of Jimmy Ray Bromgard, who served more than 14 years of a 40-year sentence for sexual intercourse without consent until he was exonerated in 2002, the director of the Montana State Crime Lab told the jury that hairs found on a blanket in the victim’s house “matched” hairs taken from Bromgard’s body. There were so many hairs that matched so well, the analyst said, that there was a "one in 10,000" chance the hairs could have come from anyone else.

But no one has ever established any statistics about the microscopic characteristics of hair, so "one in 10,000" odds isn’t based on scientific consensus. How common is it for a person to have a particular hair color, or for a hair to crinkle or curl just so? Scientists have never answered that question systematically. And what does “match” mean, anyway? There are no uniform guidelines to say how many characteristics two hairs must have in common before they’re said to "match." It varies entirely from one lab to the next, from one technician to the next.


The same goes for bite mark analysis, carpet-fiber analysis, blood spatter analysis, that shit they do where they match voices based on those graphic equalizer looking things, and even the hallowed fingerpint analysis which despite what CSI would have us believe, still primarily relies on eminently fallible eyeballed comparisons.

According to the National Academy of Sciences, DNA analysis is the only forensic discipline capable of conclusively determining "a connection between evidence and a specific individual or source."

At least the story seems to be getting traction, not just in the press but also in state and national legislative bodies. Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) has introduced a bill that would require any crime lab that receives federal funding to be accredited and certified, by what governing body remains unclear. The bill also provides funding for determining scientific best practices in all forensic fields.
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  #53  
Old 03-17-2011, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Actually, even DNA analysis is far from error-free. The fault lies not so much with the DNA and its usefulness in identifying someone, but with the error-prone processes by which it is collected and analyzed.


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  #54  
Old 03-17-2011, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

True, but the NAS isn't suggesting DNA analysis can't be wrong, tainted, fraudulent, etc., just that it alone among forensic disciplines is genuinely capable of connecting evidence to a specific person. I think teevee has led many of us to believe otherwise.
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  #55  
Old 03-17-2011, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Looks like we're going to have to do some testing. We'll need some specimens of course. :horror:
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  #56  
Old 03-17-2011, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

With the hair thing, it's also the case that not all hairs from the same head are the same. While my hair is mostly a light/medium brown, I do have some blond hair on my head.
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Is it yours?
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  #58  
Old 03-18-2011, 12:36 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

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Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Is it yours?
Oh course it is!! I know because my hair has been going blonder and blonder at a rapid clip ever since I turned 50!! :prettycolors:
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  #59  
Old 03-18-2011, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Livius drusus, stop your lies! I know in my heart that Emily Deschanel would never tell me anything that was not true!
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  #60  
Old 04-23-2012, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Frontline is back on the case, this time focusing on the reliability of forensic practices like fingerprint matching. They bust CSI right open, starting with the case of Brandon Mayfield, the Portland lawyer who was falsely accused of being involved in the Madrid bombing based solely on a partial fingerprint recovered from a bag of detonators.

You can watch the whole show on the PBS website right now, but don't delay because it'll come down once they start promoting the DVD.

Watch The Real CSI on PBS. See more from FRONTLINE.

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  #61  
Old 04-23-2012, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

The Mayfield case is particularly bad. Ever since Portland refused to join the federal task force, they seem to be targeting Oregon for extra special bad detective work.
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  #62  
Old 04-23-2012, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

At least the Madrid cops found the real guy before Mayfield was tried, convicted and executed. Some of the other people featured in the Frontline show weren't so lucky.
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  #63  
Old 08-21-2012, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

BBC News - G20 pathologist Freddy Patel 'not fit to practise'

Ian Tomlinson's widow I would like to know why with all the good pathologists there are he was selected to do the first post mortem

Yes, I'd like to know that too.
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  #64  
Old 08-21-2012, 11:21 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

How despicable. Both of the cases mentioned in that article are deaths at the hands of third parties that Patel falsely determined were deaths from natural causes. In the second case he was judged to have intentionally obscured data that contradicted his findings. I wonder what dog he has in this hunt.
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
Ian Tomlinson's widow I would like to know why with all the good pathologists there are he was selected to do the first post mortem

Yes, I'd like to know that too.
Okay, I've done some sleuthing and found this blog by Westminster Labour MP, Michael Meacher. Apparently, Patel shouldn't even have been on the register ...

Meacher's blogThe National Policing Improvement Agency which, rather curiously, runs the official register of approved forensic pathologists then revealed two damning facts about Patel. He had lied about his status and deliberately concealed that he was not in fact part of a group practice of pathologists, which the Home Office register required after 2006.


He was appointed to Ian Tomlinson's botched postmortem by a dude called Paul Matthews, and no one is sure why. Meacher hints darkly about conspiracy to pervert the course of justice ...

Meacher's blogBut why did Paul Matthews, the City of London coroner, appoint Patel in the first place in 2009 for the Tomlinson inquest? In all the furore over several years about Patel’s incompetence and dishonesty, this seems an extraordinary foolish, risky and unnecessary choice. What were the reasons behind it? Had he been lobbied by anybody who wanted an acquittal for PC Harwood?


And to make matters murkier, according to Paul Lewis of The Guardian Paul Matthews refused a request from the Independent Police Complaints Commission to have an investigator present during Tomlinson's postmortem.

So why are we still focussed on the pathologist's incompetence, when we should be focussed on the coroner's apparent determination to have Tomlinson's death incompetently investigated?
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  #66  
Old 09-15-2012, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

The Guardian article previously cited has Paul Matthews explaining his choice of Patel as routine, because Patel regularly attended St Pancras mortuary to carry out "routine postmortems".

But according to James Meikle, also of The Guardian, it was probably the only such job Patel had been given in two years.

Meikle's articleThe NPIA, which is being abolished under the government's bonfire of the quangos later this year, believes Patel probably only carried out one forensic examination into a death – that of Tomlinson – after June 2007 when it took over running the Home Office's register.
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  #67  
Old 09-16-2012, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

What the hell? I hope they keep digging, because something is definitely wrong there.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

The whole no standards or oversight is about to cost somebody a lot of money.

Quote:
Massachusetts is reeling from a massive scandal in its state crime lab. Details are still emerging about what officials call a "rogue chemist" who may have mishandled evidence in as many as 40,000 cases over 10 years.

It could mean the unraveling of countless convictions.

Even lawyers prone to hyperbole may not be overstating it when they call the scandal a catastrophic failure and unmitigated disaster.

"Any person who's been convicted of a drug crime in the last several years whose drugs were tested at the lab was very potentially a victim of a very substantial miscarriage of justice," says defense attorney John Martin.
Forty. Thousand. That would be a mind boggling number of people.
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  #69  
Old 09-21-2012, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Oow fun!
SF hasn't had its own crime lab for over two years now since it was discovered that one of the main techs was pinching drugs for themselves and falsifying documents to hide it.
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  #70  
Old 10-17-2012, 04:04 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Update on the terrible chemistin Mass.

Quote:
One at a time, the prison inmates sat down at a wooden table, linked by videoconference to a Boston courtroom, where their attorneys and prosecutors explained the role a disgraced chemist played in their criminal cases.

One by one, the judge agreed to let them go free while their legal challenges make their way through the courts, placing their sentences on hold and setting bail.

The fallout from a scandal at a state drug lab played out in court Monday, as Judge Christine McEvoy began hearing what is expected to be nearly 200 legal challenges in Suffolk Superior Court drug cases.

The scandal has put thousands of criminal cases in jeopardy. Dookhan tested more than 60,000 samples covering about 34,000 defendants in her nine years at the lab, according to state police.

Monday was the first day of a two-week special session set up to hear challenges in Suffolk Superior Court, which covers Boston. Similar sessions have been scheduled in courts around the state. The first sessions were held in Boston Municipal Court earlier this month.

The assembly line-style of hearing cases via videoconference made for some unusually casual moments.

After the judge greeted the first inmate, he responded, "How ya doin'?"
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  #71  
Old 06-12-2014, 04:29 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

January 14th, 2014. A Delaware State Police trooper opens an envelope while on the stand during a trial. Everyone expected there to be 64 oxycontin pills, instead there are 13 blood pressure pills. So began a many months long investigation into the Delaware State Medical Examiner's office drug lab. At immediate risk are over 4,000 cases with associated drugs and drug paraphernalia. It calls into question many years worth of cases, (thankfully only) stretching back to 2010.

Drug Scandal Hits ME's Office (February)

No video, no clerk, lax security at lab (April)

Hundreds in Delaware drug cases could walk (April)

Medical Examiner Callery 'absent' much of time (May)

Two arrests made in ME Office scandal (May)

And here's where it relates to thrad:

Markell plan draws critics (June)

Quote:
Bipartisan legislation pushed by Gov. Jack Markell to abolish the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner and place its forensic testing functions under control of law enforcement is attracting criticism even as lawmakers voted the measure out of a state Senate committee on Wednesday.

Delaware's policy on forensic testing is moving backward, according to a 2009 National Academy of Sciences study that recommended that forensic labs be separated from the control of prosecutors and police to eliminate the sometimes subtle and sometimes direct pressure to produce results favorable to the state.

Nationally known criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos, president of The National Trial Lawyers, said he "couldn't be more adamant that the new direction Delaware is headed is the wrong direction. I think that is absolutely the wrong thing to do."

Delaware is proposing moving testing functions to the Department of Safety and Homeland Security, which also oversees the Delaware State Police. "The whole idea is a lab is supposed to be independent and not under the thumb of law enforcement," Geragos said.
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  #72  
Old 04-23-2015, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

FBI admits flaws in hair analysis over decades - The Washington Post

Out of 28 FBI laboratory examiners, 26 overstated the hair matches in order to help convict defendants, and the hair evidence has been found to be unreliable as an indicator of guilt in over 95% of the cases being reviewed.

Unbe-fucking-lievable. :jawdrop:

Or perhaps, unfortunately, all too believable. :sadno:
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  #73  
Old 04-23-2015, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

The review is ongoing, too, so the numbers may get even worse, and that's saying a lot because 14 of the defendants convicted with hair evidence -- which, as noted above, is bullshit anyway, never mind when it's routinely overstated -- have already been executed. They've reviewed a tenth of the targeted cases so far (268 out of 2,500).

It's also worth noting that the FBI itself KNEW it had been fucking up for three decades because they quietly changed their procedures in 2000 from using so-called hair matches as evidence of guilt to only using it to rule someone out. Of course they swept their dirty past under the rug for the next decade and a half until the Washington Post blew the lid off the story last year. That's the only reason these cases are being reviewed now.

Last edited by livius drusus; 04-23-2015 at 11:35 PM.
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  #74  
Old 10-03-2017, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: There Are No Standards or Oversight for Pathologists in the US

Last Week Tonight finally gets around to covering our thrad.

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