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Old 04-11-2016, 10:22 PM
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Default Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.

Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.

How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.

For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.

So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.

Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?

Regards
DL
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  #2  
Old 04-11-2016, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

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  #3  
Old 04-12-2016, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

This is sort of like arguing that Star Wars is unrealistic, and going on and on about it, but then claiming that Star Trek however is completely scientifically sound and objectively better.

In other words - a complete waste of time
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  #4  
Old 04-12-2016, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

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Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
This is sort of like arguing that Star Wars is unrealistic, and going on and on about it, but then claiming that Star Trek however is completely scientifically sound and objectively better.

In other words - a complete waste of time
True that you wasted your time and do not seem to care that the vast majority of your friends are being lied to.

Nice morals pal.

Regards
DL
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  #5  
Old 04-12-2016, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Those damn star-wars fans are being lied to and I should care about their erroneous taste in fiction, or else I am immoral?

:lolhog:
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  #6  
Old 04-12-2016, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

I appreciate the effort and all but we have a new one now, thanks.
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  #7  
Old 04-14-2016, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Thanks all.

Regards
DL
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:07 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

:salute:
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  #9  
Old 04-16-2016, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

It is such a weird argument. With equal levels of support for both religious points of view (and in my personal view both boil down to wishful thinking) you are then stuck arguing "would it not be nicer if god were thus".

According to you, it is, and that is just fine and dandy. As an aside, try to work on the racism (sorry! bigotry) and misogyny because that is just not OK for a person with an IQ of more than 80 or so to still be walking around with. Just saying.

Other people rather like the doctrine of redemption, and experience it as a very hopeful thing: everything may be rather messy, but no matter how messy things get, all of us can be redeemed by admitting we are not perfect and trusting in a God to help us transcend our own imperfections and those of the world anyway.

Trying to argue that your preferred flavour of death cult is objectively better is, like I pointed out countless times, like arguing superman is better than batman. You are trying to pontificate about matters of taste. And frankly, you lack the style and panache required to get away with that.
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  #10  
Old 04-17-2016, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
It is such a weird argument. With equal levels of support for both religious points of view (and in my personal view both boil down to wishful thinking) you are then stuck arguing "would it not be nicer if god were thus".

According to you, it is, and that is just fine and dandy. As an aside, try to work on the racism (sorry! bigotry) and misogyny because that is just not OK for a person with an IQ of more than 80 or so to still be walking around with. Just saying.

Other people rather like the doctrine of redemption, and experience it as a very hopeful thing: everything may be rather messy, but no matter how messy things get, all of us can be redeemed by admitting we are not perfect and trusting in a God to help us transcend our own imperfections and those of the world anyway.

Trying to argue that your preferred flavour of death cult is objectively better is, like I pointed out countless times, like arguing superman is better than batman. You are trying to pontificate about matters of taste. And frankly, you lack the style and panache required to get away with that.
That is all well and good but the redemption you see people embracing, according to scriptures, will be given to the few, while the many end in hell.

You might show that your IQ is more than 80 by speaking to the issue at hand and not name calling like a child.

Grow up.

Regards
DL
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Old 04-17-2016, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

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Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
I
For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being.
Hitler Revue:

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  #12  
Old 04-17-2016, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
It is such a weird argument. With equal levels of support for both religious points of view (and in my personal view both boil down to wishful thinking) you are then stuck arguing "would it not be nicer if god were thus".

According to you, it is, and that is just fine and dandy. As an aside, try to work on the racism (sorry! bigotry) and misogyny because that is just not OK for a person with an IQ of more than 80 or so to still be walking around with. Just saying.

Other people rather like the doctrine of redemption, and experience it as a very hopeful thing: everything may be rather messy, but no matter how messy things get, all of us can be redeemed by admitting we are not perfect and trusting in a God to help us transcend our own imperfections and those of the world anyway.

Trying to argue that your preferred flavour of death cult is objectively better is, like I pointed out countless times, like arguing superman is better than batman. You are trying to pontificate about matters of taste. And frankly, you lack the style and panache required to get away with that.
That is all well and good but the redemption you see people embracing, according to scriptures, will be given to the few, while the many end in hell.

You might show that your IQ is more than 80 by speaking to the issue at hand and not name calling like a child.

Grow up.

Regards
DL
You still don't get it. You are still saying "If my story was true it would be slightly nicer because (insert convoluted star-trek lore)"

But other people prefer different stories. And if those stories have bits in them which seem unpalatable then they just compartmentalize that in a creative way to make it seem all fine again. Hell is only for the irredeemably bad, say some, and even if you have lived the worst of lives, God will forgive you if you repent before you die. Others like darker stories: we are the only pure ones in a tainted world! Everyone is doomed except for us, God's loyal soldiers!

People creatively rationalize, compartmentalize, filter, ignore, and sometimes just plain make stuff up in order to come to the kind of theology they like, no matter what the actual holy book they claim to base it on says.

And you do not have the style and panache required to be a good critic, or a style-guru. So your art criticism ends up pedantic, boring, and meaningless.
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  #13  
Old 05-27-2016, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

There is no such thing as Gnostic Christianity. There is Gnosticism, and there can be Gnostics who put some level of value in some parts of the bible. But the very definition of Gnosticism... well, definitions, given they can't all agree what it means... makes it and Christianity mutually exclusive. To believe otherwise shows that the person doesn't understand even the fundamentals of what it means to be a Christian.
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Old 05-27-2016, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

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Originally Posted by catchthisdrift View Post
There is no such thing as Gnostic Christianity. There is Gnosticism, and there can be Gnostics who put some level of value in some parts of the bible. But the very definition of Gnosticism... well, definitions, given they can't all agree what it means... makes it and Christianity mutually exclusive. To believe otherwise shows that the person doesn't understand even the fundamentals of what it means to be a Christian.
We understand what it means to be a Christian and that is why we have dubbed Yahweh as a vile demiurge.

Christianity is demonstrably an immoral creed. All one needs do is examine their moral tenets.

Home

Regards
DL
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

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Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell.
DL
Gnostic Christianity.... you said it.
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell.
DL
Gnostic Christianity.... you said it.
Yes.

I always try to speak the truth.

Regards
DL
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Old 05-30-2016, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

NO , THE NEED OF SALVATION IS NOT AN EVIL LIE FROM RELIGION, CERTAINLY NOT THE RELIGIONS OF MAN..............

ARE WE LIVING A LIE? I WOULD SAY YES!!

LISTENING AND WATCHING COMMERCIALS FOR EXAMPLE AND BELIEVING IN LIES, IS ONE IDIOT OF A SOCIETY
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HOW YOU ARE AS A PERSON IS THE MASTER !!
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

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Originally Posted by Awareness View Post
NO , THE NEED OF SALVATION IS NOT AN EVIL LIE FROM RELIGION, CERTAINLY NOT THE RELIGIONS OF MAN..............

ARE WE LIVING A LIE? I WOULD SAY YES!!

LISTENING AND WATCHING COMMERCIALS FOR EXAMPLE AND BELIEVING IN LIES, IS ONE IDIOT OF A SOCIETY
We have been well trained by religions.

Regards
DL
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

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Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awareness View Post
NO , THE NEED OF SALVATION IS NOT AN EVIL LIE FROM RELIGION, CERTAINLY NOT THE RELIGIONS OF MAN..............

ARE WE LIVING A LIE? I WOULD SAY YES!!

LISTENING AND WATCHING COMMERCIALS FOR EXAMPLE AND BELIEVING IN LIES, IS ONE IDIOT OF A SOCIETY
We have been well trained by religions.

Regards
DL
You have been indeed well trained by society, what is mere religion where you can say no just like that !

But a commercial which is the backbone of keeping the fresh new stream of idiots.

Commercials make people even smile like an idiot, and they are not even aware of it...

Day in and day out. and especially when the commercial is talking about their brand and are exited like children of a psychiatric ward.

SOME PEOPLE just love to be dragged through the mud and let the commercial's heel shove their head deep into the soil , and they just do not even know it.
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REMEMBER...........THE COLOUR OF YOUR SKIN IS ONLY AND JUST ONLY THE COLOUR OF YOUR SKIN, HOW YOU ARE AS A PERSON MAKES YOU A WHOLE PERSON AND NOTHING ELSE....HOW YOU HAVE SEX , HOW YOU DRESS UP, HOW YOU PRAY only gives away your hobbies

HOW YOU ARE AS A PERSON IS THE MASTER !!
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  #20  
Old 06-06-2016, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

I do not know as many weird people as you do I guess.

Most people I know have more doubt in them than those you know. Or so it seems.

Regards
DL
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