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  #51  
Old 07-27-2010, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

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Originally Posted by Doctor X View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ 浪人 View Post
Is there a thread of links recognizing heroic actions or sacrifices made by police officers here on this board?
You could start one? :dunno:

--J.D.
What would that reflect, up to this point in the conversation, about the general consensus here at FF?
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  #52  
Old 07-27-2010, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

You are a member of :ff: as much as any of the rest of us, and good luck finding a "general consensus" here about anything.
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  #53  
Old 07-27-2010, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread


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  #54  
Old 07-27-2010, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Nevermind
That's cool...I didn't mean for anything to get blown out of proportion, LadyShea.

I think that many folks can be far too accepting of any sort of authority and I personally hold no illusions as to the realities of police abuse, misconduct and outright terror.

Just so y'all know, there are many good officers doing the right thing and there are even those who do what may be considered the unthinkable...police their own...at great risk, but for the greater good.

All of that aside, I submit that I caused the derailment and, as a matter of double secret probation, will consign myself to the arcade.

Carry on.
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  #55  
Old 07-27-2010, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

See my edit, I put something in place of the "nevermind"
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  #56  
Old 07-27-2010, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

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Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Here is a comment that led to my post, I do not have exact quotes but had read similar comments elsewhere
Quote:
The nay sayers should consider not breaking the law and if you do break the law comply with the cops request. You see that way you won't get lazered or tazered. Make sense ? Only to sensible people... So whats your Beef ?

http://www.king5.com/news/BLINDING-L...-98973794.html
That is a pretty strong assertion, that if you do not break the law and you comply with requests you will not get tasered, and based on the evidence in this thread, it is completely unsupported.

Where have you seen a similar assertion of the opposite in this thread?
Before the games lure me away, I was captured by your subsequent post.

I certainly don't mind quote mining, LadyShea.

Here is a sensationalized equivalent that is pertinent, in my view, found in this thread:

"Reading these cases has me livid with rage. The entire system is corrupt and needs to be completely overhauled."

That's a pretty strong assertion as well.

Is it your opinion that the entire system is corrupt?

Could someone post this at another forum and posit that "once again, police are neveh, eveh helpful to law abiding citizens?"

Granted, hyperbole and stereotypes can be useful...but they can also be universal.

I was merely pointing that out.
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  #57  
Old 07-27-2010, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

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Originally Posted by ~ 浪人 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Puppet View Post
Such a thread would not be the only way, or even necessarily the best way, to correct your assumption.
Would you be willing to offer one?
Frankly, the board already has. Which you might realize if you read more posts rather than drawing conclusions from one thread about one particular subject (cf. Adamus Prime's posts here).

My point was just that a tit-for-tat "Fair and Balanced" Fox News approach is not the only way to ensure a topic is treated fairly, and often doesn't work at all.
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  #58  
Old 07-27-2010, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

This thread and the news articles in it are actually in support of those heroic police officers.

On the whole most cops are decent if not good cops, and most districts are strapped for cash. Every time a district must pay for the actions of bad cops they are losing money (tax payer money) that could have otherwise gone to better equipment, more good cops on the street or hell even programs to prevent crime before it happens. Bad cops are stunting or ending the careers of future good cops.

Every time a bad cop ruffs up someone for looking at them funny and others defend him for doing it, a whole new group of people lose their trust in the police. Making the job of good cops even harder.

Every time a bad cop gets nailed or is written about in the news it provides one more incentive for the heroic cops to fix their system, help the public and make their job easier. However none of this could happen if everyone pretends the problem doesn't exist.

So while this thread may be called "FUCK THA POLICE" what we really mean is fuck the douchebag thugs that abuse their power, arresting, injuring or killing innocent people, and fuck the broken aspects of the system that allow them to legally get away with it. But that should be obvious based on the posts in this thread.
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  #59  
Old 07-27-2010, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ 浪人 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor X View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ 浪人 View Post
Is there a thread of links recognizing heroic actions or sacrifices made by police officers here on this board?
You could start one? :dunno:
What would that reflect, up to this point in the conversation, about the general consensus here at FF?
Everything.

--J.D.
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  #60  
Old 07-27-2010, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
So while this thread may be called "FUCK THA POLICE" what we really mean is fuck the douchebag thugs that abuse their power, arresting, injuring or killing innocent people, and fuck the broken aspects of the system that allow them to legally get away with it. But that should be obvious based on the posts in this thread.
Actually, I am overall suspicious of police. There are a number of people who go into law enforcement with the idea of actually making people safer, and many who actually do that - I am still very leery of the entire institution. I have had enough experience with them (and no, I am not and have never been a criminal) to give me great pause. While I appreciate that sometimes they actually apprehend dangerous people, of late they seem to have (at least in Portland) no real ability to figure out the difference between the mentally disturbed and the truly violent. Their primary method seems to be to shoot first and counter the survivors' accounts later.

But you know who actually WAS helpful yesterday? The mall cop who took a guy to task for leaving his very young daughter alone in our store for about 15 minutes. She was so young she didn't know her dad's name ("I call him daddy.") THAT guy, I feel all right about.
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  #61  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

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Originally Posted by Sock Puppet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ 浪人 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Puppet View Post
Such a thread would not be the only way, or even necessarily the best way, to correct your assumption.
Would you be willing to offer one?
Frankly, the board already has. Which you might realize if you read more posts rather than drawing conclusions from one thread about one particular subject (cf. Adamus Prime's posts here).

My point was just that a tit-for-tat "Fair and Balanced" Fox News approach is not the only way to ensure a topic is treated fairly, and often doesn't work at all.
I didn't draw any conclusions and asked a fair question regarding whether or not there were other threads within my simple observation that has garnered so much defensive rancor.

Unlike many, I hold no delusion that I am omniscient.

Further, if there is a fair observation and alternative view, it isn't always a "Fox News approach".

Sometimes it is simply the right thing to do.

In any event, no time today, but I'll start such a thread recognizing the value of those men and women in law enforcement who are in it for the right reasons...for my own peace of mind.

Perhaps y'all will even join me in a diligent google search or two to provide links to each story.
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  #62  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

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Originally Posted by ~ 浪人 View Post
In any event, no time today, but I'll start such a thread recognizing the value of those men and women in law enforcement who are in it for the right reasons...for my own peace of mind.

Perhaps y'all will even join me in a diligent google search or two to provide links to each story.
I knew you could do it!! :pat:

--J.D.
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  #63  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
This thread and the news articles in it are actually in support of those heroic police officers.

On the whole most cops are decent if not good cops, and most districts are strapped for cash. Every time a district must pay for the actions of bad cops they are losing money (tax payer money) that could have otherwise gone to better equipment, more good cops on the street or hell even programs to prevent crime before it happens. Bad cops are stunting or ending the careers of future good cops.

Every time a bad cop ruffs up someone for looking at them funny and others defend him for doing it, a whole new group of people lose their trust in the police. Making the job of good cops even harder.

Every time a bad cop gets nailed or is written about in the news it provides one more incentive for the heroic cops to fix their system, help the public and make their job easier. However none of this could happen if everyone pretends the problem doesn't exist.

So while this thread may be called "FUCK THA POLICE" what we really mean is fuck the douchebag thugs that abuse their power, arresting, injuring or killing innocent people, and fuck the broken aspects of the system that allow them to legally get away with it. But that should be obvious based on the posts in this thread.
I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of this post right up until the last sentence.

It simply isn't obvious, but that is as subjective a view as the one offered by LadyShea that initiated this particular tangent.

To me, the thread took on the appearance of just as much a myopic and self-righteous gangbang as those from the other board.

That even the slightest of critique, provided in a rather ambiguous way, garnered such heat and discontent should not be lost on anyone...obviously.
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  #64  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:56 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor X View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ 浪人 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor X View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ 浪人 View Post
Is there a thread of links recognizing heroic actions or sacrifices made by police officers here on this board?
You could start one? :dunno:
What would that reflect, up to this point in the conversation, about the general consensus here at FF?
Everything.

--J.D.
Ah, the games, very nice.

Can you elaborate?
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  #65  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligulette View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
So while this thread may be called "FUCK THA POLICE" what we really mean is fuck the douchebag thugs that abuse their power, arresting, injuring or killing innocent people, and fuck the broken aspects of the system that allow them to legally get away with it. But that should be obvious based on the posts in this thread.
Actually, I am overall suspicious of police. There are a number of people who go into law enforcement with the idea of actually making people safer, and many who actually do that - I am still very leery of the entire institution. I have had enough experience with them (and no, I am not and have never been a criminal) to give me great pause. While I appreciate that sometimes they actually apprehend dangerous people, of late they seem to have (at least in Portland) no real ability to figure out the difference between the mentally disturbed and the truly violent. Their primary method seems to be to shoot first and counter the survivors' accounts later.

But you know who actually WAS helpful yesterday? The mall cop who took a guy to task for leaving his very young daughter alone in our store for about 15 minutes. She was so young she didn't know her dad's name ("I call him daddy.") THAT guy, I feel all right about.
Me too, Caligulette, me too.
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  #66  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

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Originally Posted by ~ 浪人 View Post
I didn't draw any conclusions
Yes, you did. In your very first post in this thread, as you clarified later.
Quote:
and asked a fair question regarding whether or not there were other threads within my simple observation that has garnered so much defensive rancor.
That ain't rancor. Stick around long enough, and you'll see what rancor on this board looks like. Just wait until godfry gets going on cell phones or something.
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  #67  
Old 07-28-2010, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

Oh. So you're going to start some "Honoring Our Brave Heroes in Law Enforcement" thread as a fairness doctrine response to a thread about police brutality?

I recommend searching Nancy Grace's website, America's Most Wanted, and some of the countless other mainstream media outlets that have regular spots dedicated to that.

Here's the thing: This thread came out of another thread in which there were a number of stories about police brutality and other misconduct that were currently in the news. It's not something where we were actively 'scouring Google' for stories to malign the police with. These were largely current stories of corrupt police, which is something newsworthy because it is actually not the norm, and because there are some serious and systemic problems with law enforcement in the US. Do you actually believe that you can counter examples of egregious misconduct and injustice with anecdotes about police being honest and NOT engaging in brutality? Like you're going to show the other side of the coin, as if that somehow mitigates the abuses of power in this thread?

Your arguments aren't so much 'controversial' as they are just stupid and reactionary.
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  #68  
Old 07-28-2010, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

LEO's are supposed to be helpful and protective, that's their job. If you feel there needs to be a "Hey thanks for meeting expectations" thread, go right ahead, but I don't find that a necessary or fruitful discussion.

They have broader powers than average citizens, and the fact that horrifying abuses of those powers keep happening, and are so widespread, indicates yes, there is a problem in the system.

The best way I know to find solutions to problems is to closely examine them, spotlight them, and discuss them instead of sweeping them under the "it's just a couple of rogue people, not systemic" rug.

500 cops doing a good job does not erase a single dead or tortured innocent.
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  #69  
Old 07-28-2010, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

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  #70  
Old 07-28-2010, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

I am not lying. I just now see this in my feeds:

Are Critics of Cops Driving a Spike in Cop Killing? | The Agitator

From the AP article:

Quote:
He said a rise in mental health problems and scathing criticism of police, such as the comments found on the "Official FUCK THA POLICE" thread on The Free Thought Talk Forum, could be fueling the brazenness and disregard for authority.
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  #71  
Old 07-28-2010, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

That article makes some excellent points

Quote:
The 31 gunfire deaths so far this year are up from 22 in the first six months of last year. But I wonder what evidence O’Donnell has that would cause him to attribute an additional nine officer deaths among 900,000 active duty cops to an “unprecedented level of disrespect” and a sweeping trend of “scathing criticism” of cops on the Internet. I don’t know of a single case last year where there was evidence that an officer’s murder could be traced back to anger or resentment on a web forum. I obviously haven’t looked into all 31 officer shootings, but if there was even a hint of a suggestion that the Internet motivated someone to kill a cop, it’s the sort of salacious detail the media would have lapped up and obsessed over for days. And we’d need quite a few of those incidents to make a trend.
Look, I do appreciate those officers that do what they should do, which I believe is the majority. I wrote a post in the 2 minutes love thread about one.

In my opinion, though, every good officer should damn well be encouraging criticism, investigation, and prosecution of that smaller group of brutal assholes that somehow make it into uniform.

Last edited by LadyShea; 07-28-2010 at 04:28 PM.
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  #72  
Old 07-28-2010, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

the problem is that we now need more police. i blame it on feminism and intellectualism.

cops should be big galoots. i think that big people handle their power better than those who maintain their own with weapons. equality meant letting women in and if it was just big chicks that could kick ass i'd be cool with that, but it wasn't. it was tiny little ladies who felt the community needed them, but when the communities they focus on treated them the same it required pepper spray and tazers and a larger police force to respond to calls of tiny authoritarians in distress.

next thing they have to let tiny men in. pretty soon we'll have police that are mentally challenged. the police are there to beat you. yes- they do good jobs and help people, but so do the fire department and ambulance and you don't see them carrying guns or beating on people. the job of the police is to keep people in line. big guys and girls are naturally suited for that role and we should go back to having requirements for being a police officer. they should be big and used to being feared. they should be only smart enough to not over-analyze their role and the reaction given it. give that same power to smart and intelligent weaklings and it becomes even more terrifying for society as a whole.

or so i think.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

:care:

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we now need more police. i blame it on feminism and intellectualism.
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  #74  
Old 07-28-2010, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

exactly.

eta: i replied when you had just written ":care:"
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: Official "FUCK THA POLICE" thread

when my wife and i were debating this (i was yelling at her as she was cleaning), she mentioned how it's always dudes going overboard with the weapons. i had to admit this seems to be the case, but that's because men like tools. give a man a tool or cool gadget and he's going to want to use it. the reason for my argument is in why those tools and gadgets are there in the first place. if you almost aren't entirely assured of winning a fight with your hands and strength before going for your gun, you shouldn't be a cop. she actually agreed with this and i told her the house smelled nice.
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