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Old 03-10-2011, 04:14 AM
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Default MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

This just passed today too. I wonder if which Corp will buy my town and move my house China?
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

jesus christ
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Insane
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Apropos of the "dystopian" angle, I happen to be listening to the LibriVox recording of Jack London's The Iron Heel, which prominently features major trusts who become the de facto government of the United States; their will enforced by a pliant political hierarchy and mercenary forces.

It looks like Jack London's vision was eerily prescient. :shudder:
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

I showed that segment to my teaparty father and they might have just made him into an anti-coporate type. The question is how much further they can possibley shove the middle class towards the edge before everyone in (what was) the middle class is disillusioned. The taxing the elderly and poor for corporate tax breaks is a good kick in the balls.

I for one welcome our new emergency overlord appointee.
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:08 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Hey, but I bet the trains will run in time once the Sturmbann-manager is in charge!
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nullifidian View Post
Apropos of the "dystopian" angle, I happen to be listening to the LibriVox recording of Jack London's The Iron Heel, which prominently features major trusts who become the de facto government of the United States; their will enforced by a pliant political hierarchy and mercenary forces.

It looks like Jack London's vision was eerily prescient. :shudder:
thanks, just dl'd that for my Kindle.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Do you guys have a contest going on which state is the dumbest? :derp:
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:38 AM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

I think it's the politicians who are competing for who is the biggest fraud.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
I think it's the politicians who are competing for who is the biggest fraud.
And where do they come from? That's right, Mr. clown! It's you! The USA should be sent to the Cloaca! :spammer:

ETA: Or to say it with George Carlin:

“Now, there’s one thing you might have noticed I don’t complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There’s a nice campaign slogan for somebody: ‘The Public Sucks. Fuck Hope.’”
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Fair enough, but I didn't vote for them. I blame the misinformed. I also think it is important to point out that none of these politicians campaigned on what they're doing now. They said it was about the defecit and like Maddow's graphic says, it is not about the budget. Liars liars pants on fire.

Time to throw out both parties. They're fakes and phonies and I don't trust any of them as far as I can spit. Half of our Congress members are millionaires and coporate sell-outs.

You have to hand it to them, though. It's sort of working. They've abused their powers to the best of their ability in so many places at once it is hard to keep track of what we should be upset and outraged about.

General strike is right. Time for us so-called Patriots to stand the fuck up for what we supposedly believe in. :rage:

ETA:

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Old 03-11-2011, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlight View Post
And where do they come from? That's right, Mr. clown! It's you! The USA should be sent to the Cloaca! :spammer:

ETA: Or to say it with George Carlin:

“Now, there’s one thing you might have noticed I don’t complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There’s a nice campaign slogan for somebody: ‘The Public Sucks. Fuck Hope.’”
Carlin is right for the most part, but what his analysis leaves out is that there is a large power imbalance favouring politicians who favour the rich and powerful, and disfavouring politicians who are willing to enact policies that will weaken the power imbalance. In addition to the fact that it is literally impossible for a third party candidate to gain exposure on mainstream media sources, in 95% of elections the better-financed candidate wins. This effectively amounts to the out-and-out purchasing of elections by special interests, because no politician who does not court special interests can have even a remote chance at winning re-election. So while it's true the citizens are indeed selfish and ignorant, the system is set up to make the election of selfish and ignorant politicians a virtual foregone conclusion. This is amplified by the shittiness of first-past-the-post voting, which results in people forsaking the idea of voting their conscience because they fear that if they vote for a third party, it will divide the vote between candidates on their side of political issues and result in the worse of two evils getting in. So people usually just vote for the lesser of two evils. And then of course there's the classic ice cream stand problem, which in ordinary circumstances would result in the positions of both parties shifting to the centre. However, as there are large concentrations of wealth bankrolling right-wing ideologies and almost nothing bankrolling left-wing ideologies, what it really results in is the political positions of politicians shifting further and further to the right.

So in other words we've got a whole consortium of colossally fucked-up problems leading America's politics to get progressively worse that the general populace of the country, selfish and ignorant as they are, have absolutely nothing to do with. That said, if more people weren't so selfish and ignorant, they would take more notice of these things and work to counteract them. Unfortunately, with so much of the population being selfish and ignorant, there is comparatively little the non-selfish, non-ignorant minority can do (although I would contend that they could probably do more than they have been). In any case it remains a classic rant, even though it oversimplifies the problem.

edit: I just realised 1Samuel8 said basically exactly the same things I said in much fewer words in the same thread. Oh well.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

George Carlin. Being in the same theatre as him for just one or two hours to hear him speak was the most hysterical and euphoric experience of my life. It's difficult to think one of the greatest minds of our time is gone. It's bad for ya.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
Time to throw out both parties. They're fakes and phonies and I don't trust any of them as far as I can spit. ...

Time for us so-called Patriots to stand the fuck up for what we supposedly believe in. :rage:
Stand for election as an independent or shut up! I give no weight whatsoever to The Man's demolition of this approach.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

I, sir, am not cut out for the responsibility or scrutiny of public office nor am I well educated or confident enough. (There are some great young people who run for office, though, the damn over acheivers. I'd still rather an experienced serious adult to be doing for serious things and dealing with the serious lives of other serious people.) I do have opinions, though, like an asshole.

It comes to mind that the general public doesn't really have a good base in various civil disobediance tactics unless they've studied it on their own or have been taught about it. Strikes are good to bring attention to an issue and gaining support, but it won't solve a problem on it's own. Corporations need to be boycotted, people need to stand up for themselves in the (rapidly becoming dictorial) workplace (whether public OR private) and life styles need to be changed. Sometimes radical change in and of itself means too much sacrifice for people who otherwise have it okay at the moment. It's sad really. People talk a big game about us leading the way for the world in democracy but all we seem to know how to do is try to force our way of life onto other cultures or how to stick our guns where they don't belong.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
I think it's the politicians who are competing for who is the biggest fraud.
There's only one response to that kind of contest:

"Guys, don't fight about this; you're all enormous frauds."
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Carlin is right for the most part, but what his analysis leaves out is that there is a large power imbalance favouring politicians who favour the rich and powerful, and disfavouring politicians who are willing to enact policies that will weaken the power imbalance. In addition to the fact that it is literally impossible for a third party candidate to gain exposure on mainstream media sources, in 95% of elections the better-financed candidate wins. This effectively amounts to the out-and-out purchasing of elections by special interests, because no politician who does not court special interests can have even a remote chance at winning re-election. So while it's true the citizens are indeed selfish and ignorant, the system is set up to make the election of selfish and ignorant politicians a virtual foregone conclusion. This is amplified by the shittiness of first-past-the-post voting, which results in people forsaking the idea of voting their conscience because they fear that if they vote for a third party, it will divide the vote between candidates on their side of political issues and result in the worse of two evils getting in. So people usually just vote for the lesser of two evils.
Since I can only [thank] a post once, consider this a second [thank]s.

Especially for putting a Bakunin quote in your sig. :ffwink:

The logic of lesser-evilism is pernicious, and even I am tempted by it. But then I realize that the political masters know it too, and adjust their expectations accordingly. When they can rely on a consistent voting bloc simply because there's no other game in town, then there is absolutely no inducement for them to ever change anything. However, the premise is absolutely true: the Democrats are not quite as evil as the Republicans on a range of issues (although not all: in the environment, Clinton-Gore did more damage in eight years than Reagan-Bush managed in the previous twelve).

But the only reason they're not as evil as the Republicans is because they don't have to be. With the Republicans to charge ahead and take the blame, the Democrats can sit back and win the appalled voters who pull the lever for them in the next election. Meanwhile, once in office, they do nothing to significantly alter the way the Republicans had been doing things. Witness the perpetuation of the Patriot Act and the resumption of military tribunals for the prisoners in Guantanamo. Hell, witness the fact that there are still prisoners held in Guantanamo. And with the memories of a national economic meltdown fresh in our minds, you'd think they'd do something to reestablish the Glass-Steagall Act and the other regulations that would have prevented the financial meltdown had they been in place, plus making it easier to declare personal bankruptcy once again. But not a bit of it. We're just to take it on faith that the major financial corporations aren't going to come up with another scheme that will blow up in everyone's faces. Let me know how that's worked out so far for you.... :blank:

Lastly, the ignorance and selfishness of voters isn't an accident either. The politicians know full well where their bread is buttered, so any scheme they come up with to "improve" education is usually designed only to farm it out to private corporations. This is one of those issues where Democrats are as bad as Republicans: just look at the vile and contemptible Arne Duncan. They have no interest in improving education for the vast majority of Americans, and certainly no interest in teaching things like labor history, leftist or populist third-party candidacies, or indeed anything that would suggest that there is an alternative to the status quo.

Selfishness is an artifact of this situation too. Americans have learned helplessness. They think that there is nothing they can do to change the status quo, so why even bother trying when they can sit down and watch American Idol instead? Most of the time, they don't even know what's going on in their own communities. When was the last time a local reporter covered the goings-on at a City Hall meeting? They used to, but then the corporate managers of newspapers (now usually limited to one in a market, when they exist at all) decided that this was too much potential trouble simply for the value of having some ready copy. Under such a situation of disconnect and ignorance, selfishness is bound to thrive.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Anarchal Monarch for President! (or emergency Michigan Overlord, whichever)

Most public school teachers probalay don't teach about challenging the status quo because they've fallen to the same sort of fatalism that it is a choice between the lesser of two evils, so it's generational. Then they tell the younger generation it is up to us (you all count because you are still liberals) to fix all the dumb shit they (the sell outs) have done. Just passing on the burden. :brooding:

:shakebabyboomers:
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

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Anarchal Monarch for President! (or emergency Michigan Overlord, whichever)
:giggle:

:thankee:
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Approval of the Michigan bill appears to be a foregone conclusion. Our enthusiastic race to the bottom continues!

Quote:
An amendment to require Emergency Managers to hold monthly public meetings to let people know how they are governing was rejected by Senate Republicans, along with proposals to cap Emergency Manager compensation and require that those appointed to run school districts have some background in education.
Kinda of a Somalia With Benefits thang. :capitalistpig:

No word yet on the proposed Thunderdome appropriation.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:07 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Ah yes.

For the budget!
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Old 03-12-2011, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

"The Emperor has dissolved the council permanently.
The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."
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Old 03-12-2011, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

Speaking as a union member who lives in a city that will probably be the first taken over, Rick Snyder has gone to the top of my feral animal list. That's a list of politicians I would like to see locked in a small room with several feral animals who haven't been fed in a few days. I would like to see that very, very much right now.
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Old 03-12-2011, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: MI just beat out WI for Kochsuckery

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Old 03-15-2011, 09:46 AM
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