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  #326  
Old 06-27-2018, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

I think you're missing the point Mick. "Lashed out" is a poor choice of words by the NYT tweet to describe a well-argued dissenting opinion by a female supreme court justice, if you ask me. It makes her sound possibly unhinged by anger and is more like a Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh way to put it.
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  #327  
Old 06-27-2018, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

There's usually more than one point and people who say "you're missing the point" are often talking at cross purposes. My point is that the NYT's tweet did not literally say Sotomayor lashed out by quoting words Trump spoke. So mostlybree's tweet was false.

I think the NYT's choice of words was poor, too. So that's a valid criticism, I think. That the NYT can be criticised doesn't mean that any and all criticism is valid and that we needn't care about the terms people use to criticise.

It's a point I have been making for a long time,
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  #328  
Old 06-27-2018, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Well, I have about a halfster's degree in linguistics*, but just being a native English speaker is sufficient to interpret an English language statement.

And that statement doesn't mention anything beyond the quotes, which could imply that's what they're talking about.

This is the tweet:

Quote:
Sonia Sotomayor in her dissent of the Supreme Court's travel ban decision, lashed out at President Trump, quoting anti-Muslim statements that he made as a candidate and, later, as president
You're correct that it COULD be interpreted to mean that in the course of her 'lashing out,' she quoted Trump. It could also, however, be interpreted to mean that the 'lashing out' consisted of quoting him. It's just kind of strange wording.

I take more issue with them characterizing her as 'lashing out' at all, while everyone else's statements are described in neutral terms. They clearly want to focus on the strength of Sotomayer's dissent, but why not characterize it as a harsh rebuke or a strongly worded criticism or something? Lashing out has connotations of sudden violent attacks. They make it sound like she had a temper tantrum or something.

Also, they're missing a comma.

* Computational linguistics, though. ha ha.
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  #329  
Old 06-27-2018, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

I am not talking at cross purposes. I think the use of the words "lashed out" to describe Sotomayor's decision detracts (and distracts) from her actual argument by implying something about her personally. It is an emotionally-laden phrase. The entire point of the case revolved around how all the anti-Muslim comments Trump said on the campaign trail became unconstitutional executive branch policy once Trump was in power. Pointing out what Trump said is NOT lashing out, and when a tweet is all many people are ever going to see...I have read other modifiers for her dissent -- scathing, scorching, even remarkable -- those are fine, because are used to describe her supreme court decision, not her personal behavior.

But that she herself "lashed out" suggests something angry and negative about Sotomayor's herself.

Feel free to continue to disagree, but that's my issue with the NYT tweet.
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  #330  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

It is ambiguous as to whether it's implying that.

But having read some of the excerpts from her dissent, that is a pretty fair reading of what they're saying.

There isn't anything I've seen from her dissent that could be described as lashing out at Trump aside from starkly laying out the case that he is motivated by anti-Muslim animus, and doing so by quoting his own words. And by not being "polite" enough to act like the justices who ruled the other way were operating in good faith (because they plainly weren't).

It's a stupid way to describe a very well-argued point. If you view it as impolite or a slur to call a spade a spade by pointing out that Trump is biased against Muslims, then sure, it's lashing out. But facts are facts. And the fact is that Trump is biased against Muslims (and that's putting it kindly!).
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  #331  
Old 06-28-2018, 03:13 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

I find it weirdly satisfying to see Dump's retarded tweets, including the capslock shitfits, printed in the Supreme Court decision.

Also, if there was a way to send this quote back 20 years or so using a time machine, the only conclusion would be that at some point in the future, some really weird drugs would be invented.

Quote:
In September 2017, President Trump tweeted that “[t]he travel ban into the United States should be far larger, tougher and more specific—but stupidly, that would not be politically correct!”
President Trump tweeted..

:wtf:

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  #332  
Old 06-28-2018, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Good enough thrad for this:


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  #333  
Old 06-28-2018, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuss Apollo View Post
Feel free to continue to disagree, but [that she herself "lashed out" suggests something angry and negative about Sotomayor's herself] is my issue with the NYT tweet.
[sigh] Yes, dude, I get that that is your issue. That isn't what the tweet from mostlybree that you shared says though:

... and that was false. And I think the difference between truth and falsity matters, here at :ff: as much as everywhere else. If you disagree with me about that, just say so and we're done ...
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  #334  
Old 06-28-2018, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

If it mattered to you, I think you might admit that the NYT tweet is ambiguous. There is no indication if there is an implied "and" or "by" there where the second comma is.
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  #335  
Old 06-28-2018, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

If it mattered to you, I think you might admit that the NYT tweet is ambiguous.

What if it matters to me and I think ambiguity is precisely why it is false to ascribe literality? Do you not see a contradiction between "it's not clear what it says" and "it literally says x", Crumbo?
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  #336  
Old 06-28-2018, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Ambiguous means it could be read either way, not that it is always read as ambiguous.
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  #337  
Old 06-28-2018, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Er ... if it can be read either way, then it can always be read either way, dude! You are mangling the language into an Orwellian nightmare.
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  #338  
Old 06-28-2018, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Haha, ok. I guess you are right. It is impossible for someone to read an ambiguous statement one way and not notice the other reading. Anyone who pretends to do that must be up to something nefarious.
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  #339  
Old 06-28-2018, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

You are resorting to ironic capitualtion to insinuate a matter of continuing disagreement there, Crumbo. It's not honest, and it is highly ambiguous.


Try again without the irony?
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  #340  
Old 06-28-2018, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

I'm sure you can figure it out, mick.
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  #341  
Old 06-28-2018, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

No, I can't make any sense of your irony. For what it's worth, I don't believe, I haven't said, and nothing I have argued hides a premise that no one has ever read an ambiguous statement one way while failing to notice the other reading.


Nor do I think that kind of binary ambiguity is at play in the NYT tweet.
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  #342  
Old 06-28-2018, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

I guess you can't be helped then. :boh:
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  #343  
Old 06-28-2018, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Oh, memories :wish:
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  #344  
Old 06-28-2018, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
You are resorting to ironic capitualtion
I guess you're rihgt.
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  #345  
Old 06-30-2018, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

This Dinesh fellow seems astute:


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  #346  
Old 07-01-2018, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Facebook, Google, and news.

How Facebook Punked and then Gut Punched the News Biz – Talking Points Memo

Quote:
I have often been critical of Google. But Google operates very, very differently. It has built massive businesses in advertising and other media related fields. It clearly exercises monopolistic power. But its presence, business models and partnerships are much more consistent and reliable. Facebook and Google have both engrossed huge swathes of the advertising business. Yet TPM gets a mid-low 5-figure check from Google every month for the ads we run on TPM through their advertising services. We get nothing from Facebook. And though there are now some exceptions, that’s the standard. Facebook will sometimes jump in with offers of money and when they decide differently jump right back out. So for instance: April 21, 2017 “Facebook is offering publishers money to create produced video” … December 13th, 2017 “Facebook plans to stop paying publishers to make news feed videos“. Despite being one of the largest and most profitable companies in the world Facebook still has a lot of the personality of a college student run operation, with short attention spans, erratic course corrections and an almost total indifference to the externalities of its behavior.
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  #347  
Old 07-01-2018, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamilah Hauptmann View Post
Quote:
still has a lot of the personality of a college student run operation, with short attention spans, erratic course corrections and an almost total indifference to the externalities of its behavior.
Not the only operation in America this could be said of.
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  #348  
Old 07-01-2018, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

I AM RIGHT HERE.
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  #349  
Old 07-02-2018, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

Fuck the fucking Vichy New York Times, the latest instalment in an infinite series:

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  #350  
Old 07-02-2018, 03:12 AM
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Default Re: Why the Mainstream Media Really Sucks

:lol:

Say, did you look at the headline on the upper right on the front page that you just reproduced? That's called the "A hed." The A hed is the header for what the Times considers the most important news article of the day.

Did you, erm, read that story?

Or the story just below it, about Fox News and Trump?

:lol: Of course you didn't.

:pat:

The idea that the NY Times is "Vichy" to Trump is so batshit nuts that at this point I have to question the sanity of TheMan. Do you read the Times editorial page?

But go ahead and keep it up. I check in from time to time to see how nuts you and erimir have become. It's amusing. What's especially incredible is to suppose that anyone who voted for Donald Trump would give a damn about what the NY Times says. Are you not aware that the Times endorsed Clinton for president? How many Red State stump jumpers did that persuade, d'ya think?

:lol:
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