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  #301  
Old 11-07-2009, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-X View Post
Chuck can read your mind you know.
Could you address this directly to your new pal mickthinks? I would really love to hear his thoughts on the matter.
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  #302  
Old 11-07-2009, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Now mick, I know you're not, like, trying to call me out specifically, and are just interested in whether a post (which happened to be mine) was giving an undue insult to another poster.

But I must wonder how this post escaped your notice:
Quote:
Originally Posted by F-X View Post
But I realized that is lazy and selfish of me, so I am going to respond to stupid, and explain in agonizing detail.
[...]

I usually ignore specious arguments, but that is just lazy and selfish of me, so lets look at yours.

[...]

That is a stupid stupid thing to say. It is so stupid it will take a vast amount of explaining to show you this.

[...]

Chlorine isn't a toxin, the statement, "more toxic" is a complete fallacy. Mercury is a toxin. Chlorine is not. If you can't grasp that, you are stupid.
[emphasis mine]

[...]

No really, when you see somebody drag out the water fallacy, you can pretty much give up talking to them.

[...]

Back to sodium/chlorine as poisons. Some half educated self proclaimed genius always shows up with this argument.
[emphasis mine again]

[...]

That is stupid squared.

[...]

Utter nonsense. It is the mark of somebody who didn't study science, or is very young. Or just stupid.

That the entire assembled crowd or readers and others posting in the thread ignore such a post, don't point out how stupid it is, is the real idiocy online. It's why these discussions are like a circus. The crowd cheers the stupid, and mock science in the process.
[emphasis mine]

[...]

I don't blame you. I really don't. Not for being ignorant about the basic chemistry of life. Most people are.

It is the inability to learn when you are wrong that makes you stupid. Stupid means you can't learn.

[...]

This is why I ignore stupid. It is a waste of time to try and point it out. In a case like this, it will evoke hostility from every stupid person who read your post and didn't realize how stupid it was. Which makes them stupid. And nobody likes that.

[...]

I could dissect the rest of your stupid post, but really, would it make any difference? Will you change your mind? Learn something and be glad? I always hope so, but the odds are against it.

Now you see why I don't respond. I hope you see. The stupid won't get it of course. They might not even read this response. Stupid means you can't learn.

I don't blame the stupid, but I do ignore them. Except this time, because I felt the need to give back, to share, despite the surety that pointing out your errors won't make any difference at all.
[italic emphasis mine]
Now, this is obviously a very insulting post.

One that occurred long before mine did. And it is based on inaccurate depictions of what I said and think.

Now, I'm just wondering why my post specifically was singled out as one that you needed to correct, and prompt me for an apology. Is there any particular reason why you've essentially said that I need to make an apology, but you haven't at the same time suggested that anyone else would need to?

Do you think that F-X ought to apologize for anything he's said in this thread? Should I apologize for a single insult, given that F-X made a post with over a dozen insults to my intelligence in succession and has made no apologies? Do you hold me to a higher standard than F-X? Or do you think that there's no point in trying to get F-X to apologize?

I'm just wondering as to the reasoning for singling out my post, as opposed to say, the one I quoted. Or a number of other posts in this thread, by other posters, that are just as, if not more, insulting than mine.
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  #303  
Old 11-07-2009, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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Originally Posted by F-X View Post
Chuck can read your mind you know.
Noob post of the year ITT
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  #304  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Do you think that F-X ought to apologize for anything he's said in this thread?
I think he should. I mean, he made people cry. That is serious.
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  #305  
Old 11-08-2009, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Interesting.

I described the various errors in critical thinking, an individual found the description applied him, and he feels insulted?

"Can't help fools!"

--J.D.
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  #306  
Old 11-08-2009, 04:17 AM
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Default All your threads are belong to us

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  #307  
Old 11-08-2009, 04:34 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

:yawn:
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  #308  
Old 11-08-2009, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

:yawning:
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  #309  
Old 11-08-2009, 01:13 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Being extremely bored, I decided to find out where Dr X stole the OP from, because it isn't on Quackwatch, despite what he said.

It seems he got an email from Consumer Health Digest, which is indeed created by Stephen Barrett, but it wasn't from quackwatch.

It also shows why you should be skeptical and not just blindly repeat stupid shit somebody sends you in email.

While Barret might stupidly say "Yet another study debunks vaccination-autism link.", that isn't what the study says at all.
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  #310  
Old 11-08-2009, 01:16 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Don't think Barret is stupid? The same email also mentions how psychology professors "debunk" psychology myths, like "Electroconvulsive ("shock") therapy is a physically dangerous and brutal treatment."

So he is promoting the idea that electroshock "treatment" isn't physically dangerous. Kids, you can try it at home. Trust the experts, it isn't dangerous.
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  #311  
Old 11-08-2009, 07:34 PM
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Reading Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

I was kindly reminded of this link from someone privately hoping to remind the Noble Readership [Tm.--Ed.] of the overall point of the thread:

Quote:
Autism is a chronic developmental disorder characterized by problems in social interaction, communication, and restrictive and repetitive interests and activities. Autism may be initially noted in infancy as impaired attachment, but it is most often first identified in toddlers, mostly boys, from 18 to 30 months of age. Boys are 3-4 times more likely to be afflicted with autism than girls. Girls as a group, however, may be more severely affected. Correct diagnosis of autism depends on an accurate developmental history focused on types of behaviors typical of autism and on evaluation of functional skills. Approximately 75% of persons with autism are mentally retarded. Fewer than 5% of children with autistic traits have fragile X or another known chromosomal abnormality. Although no cure exists, autism is treatable. Symptoms associated with autism often improve as children start to acquire language and learn how to communicate their needs.

In most cases of autism, no cause is apparent. In a few cases, biologic causes have been identified, although none are unique to autism. Some prenatal factors include intrauterine rubella; tuberous sclerosis; chromosomal abnormalities, such as Down's syndrome; as well as brain abnormalities, such as hydrocephalus. Frequently cited postnatal conditions associated with autism are untreated phenylketonuria, infantile spasms, and herpes simplex encephalitis. In the majority of cases, however, no underlying cause can be identified.

The current theory favored by many experts is that autism is a genetically-based disorder that occurs before birth [3]. Studies of persons with autism are finding abnormalities in brain structures that develop in the first few weeks of fetal development [4]. Evidence that genetics is an important, but not exclusive, cause of autism includes a 3-8% risk of recurrence in families with one affected child. A working group convened by the National Institutes of Health in 1995 reached a consensus that autism is a genetic condition. An issue unresolved by the group was the role of immune factors in autism spectrum disorders; it was suggested that studies to clarify the situation are needed.
Quote:
Some parents of children with autism believe that there is a link between measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism. However, there is no sensible reason to believe that any vaccine can cause autism or any kind of behavioral disorder. Typically, symptoms of autism are first noted by parents as their child begins to have difficulty with delays in speaking after age one. MMR vaccine is first given to children at 12-15 months of age. Since this is also an age when autism commonly becomes apparent, it is not surprising that autism follows MMR immunization in some cases. However, by far the most logical explanation is coincidence, not cause-and-effect.

If measles vaccine or any other vaccine causes autism, it would have to be a very rare occurrence, because millions of children have received vaccines without ill health effects. The only "evidence" linking MMR vaccine and autism was published in the British journal Lancet in 1998 [5]. An editorial published in the same issue, however, discussed concerns about the validity of the study [6]. Based on data from 12 patients, Dr. Andrew Wakefield (a British gastroenterologist) and colleagues speculated that MMR vaccine may have been the possible cause of bowel problems which led to a decreased absorption of essential vitamins and nutrients which resulted in developmental disorders like autism. No scientific analyses were reported, however, to substantiate the theory. Whether this series of 12 cases represent an unusual or unique clinical syndrome is difficult to judge without knowing the size of the patient population and time period over which the cases were identified. If there happened to be selective referral of patients with autism to the researchers' practice, for example, the reported case series may simply reflect such referral bias. Moreover, the theory that autism may be caused by poor absorption of nutrients due to bowel inflammation is senseless and is not supported by the clinical data. In at least 4 of the 12 cases, behavioral problems appeared before the onset of symptoms of inflammatory bowel disease. Furthermore, since publication of their original report in February of 1998, Wakefield and colleagues have published another study in which highly specific laboratory assays in patients with inflammatory bowel disease, the posited mechanism for autism after MMR vaccination, were negative for measles virus [7,8].

Other recent investigations also do not support a causal association between MMR (or other measles-containing vaccines) and autism or inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) [9-13]. In one investigation, a Working Party on MMR Vaccine of the United Kingdom's Committee on Safety of Medicines (1999) was charged with the evaluation of several hundred reports, collected by a firm of lawyers, of autism, Crohn's disease, or similar disorders developing after receipt of MMR or MR vaccines. The Working Party conducted a systematic, standardized review of parental and physician information. Although acknowledging that it is impossible to prove or refute the suggested associations (because of variable data quality, biased selection of cases, and lack of a control group), the Working Party concluded that the information available "... did not support the suggested causal associations or give cause for concern about the safety of MMR or MR vaccines." [12] In March 2000, a Medical Research Council report concludes that between March 1998 and September 1999 no new evidence had suggested a causal link between MMR and autism or IBD [13]. The American Medical Association has reached the same conclusion.
Quote:
A study by Taylor and colleagues provides population-based evidence that overcomes many of the limitations faced by the Working Party and by Wakefield and colleagues [14,15]. The authors identified all 498 known cases of autism spectrum disorders (ASD) in certain districts of London born in 1979 or later and linked them to an independent regional vaccination registry. ASD includes classical autism, atypical autism, and Asperger's syndrome, but the results were similar when cases of classical autism were analyzed separately. The authors noted:

* The known number of ASD cases has been increasing since 1979, but there was no jump after the introduction of MMR vaccine in 1988.
* Cases vaccinated before 18 months of age had similar ages at diagnosis as did cases who had been vaccinated after 18 months or not vaccinated, indicating that vaccination does not result in earlier expression of autistic characteristics.
* At age two years, the MMR vaccination coverage among the ASD cases was nearly identical to coverage in children in the same birth cohorts in the whole region, providing evidence of an overall lack of association with vaccination.
* The first diagnosis of autism or initial signs of behavioral regression were not more likely to occur within time periods following vaccination than during other time periods.
* A weak statistical association existed between MMR vaccination and initial parental concern, but this appears to have been due to parents' difficulty in recalling precise age at onset and a preference for approximating the age as 18 months.

A study of the population of children in two communities in Sweden also found no evidence of an association between MMR vaccination and autism [16]. That study found no difference in the prevalence of autism in children born after the introduction of MMR vaccination in Sweden compared with children born before.

Misconceptions about Immunization
The entire article is worth a read. [References] as from the article.

--J.D.
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  #312  
Old 11-11-2009, 12:22 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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Originally Posted by erimir View Post
You have not explained how it was relevant to what I had just said.
And this is a side issue, because you didn't just deny it's relevance, erimir - you denied you'd said it and started insulting F-X for claiming you said it, when you knew you'd said it. I think that was a dumb move.
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  #313  
Old 11-11-2009, 03:15 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

The point was that it could only be relevant if he was implying that I had said something that I had not. His implication was that I had said that normal amounts of chloride ions were toxic.

I was asking him to point out where I had said something that would lead to his interpretation.

The only way your interpretation of things would be correct (I knew I had mentioned salt, and that the quote you found was what F-X was referring to, and was "lying" to F-X), is if we assumed F-X was simply making a complete non sequitur. Like he was one of those people in those Bing! commercials. I assumed he was not, and therefore asked him where I said that - that being anything where I said salt was normally toxic.
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  #314  
Old 11-11-2009, 03:25 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! The horse is not going to get up

:whogives:
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:35 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Apparently you, as you keep looking in this thread and posting in it as well.
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  #316  
Old 11-11-2009, 03:42 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

:piethrow:
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  #317  
Old 11-13-2009, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Funny, on ANOTHER SITE [Boo. Hiss.--Ed.] someone spammed me a Youtube anti-vac video.

I have been informed my response was "less-cordial than what he is use to."

--J.D.
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  #318  
Old 11-14-2009, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

Of course salt is normally toxic. Why do you think we use it as a preservative? Someone on this very forum recently pointed out that the reason preservatives work is that they kill cells, which means they're toxic.
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  #319  
Old 11-14-2009, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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Originally Posted by seebs View Post
Of course salt is normally toxic. Why do you think we use it as a preservative? Someone on this very forum recently pointed out that the reason preservatives work is that they kill cells, which means they're toxic.
Which, in F-X Speak, means you want children . . . CHILDREN . . . to consume mercury.

Why do you hate children, seebs? :sadcheer:

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  #320  
Old 11-15-2009, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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Originally Posted by Doctor X View Post
Why do you hate children, seebs? :sadcheer:
Little bitches don't bring me candy.
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  #321  
Old 11-22-2009, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

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Originally Posted by erimir View Post
The point was that it could only be relevant if he was implying that I had said something that I had not.
:no2: The point is you denied that normal concentrations of chloride ions had been mentioned and you started insulting F-X for claiming they had been mentioned, when you knew you'd mentioned them. I think that was a dumb move.
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  #322  
Old 11-23-2009, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

So you're saying I should've assumed instead that F-X was making a nonsensical (i.e. completely irrelevant) statement, because that's more charitable, I guess?

Gotcha.
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  #323  
Old 11-23-2009, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

They say somebody saw something dark and nasty in Norway....

Will it respond to the vaccine being prepared and distributed in North America?
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  #324  
Old 11-23-2009, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

And introducing the all new Tamiflu resistant H1N1 strain.

Tamiflu-resistant swine flu reported - The Irish Times - Sat, Nov 21, 2009
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  #325  
Old 11-23-2009, 01:02 AM
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Default Re: This Just in! Vaccines STILL Do Not Cause Autism

I got my seasonal flu shot last Friday. I already appear to be experiencing some side-effects from the mercury in the vaccine. My mood has become quite mercurial. I have developed an obsession with delivering messages and I believe that I am beginning to grow wings on my heels. The situation seems to be quite hopeless.
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