Book II The Self

[bobsavegan]

Here we are at the exhibit of the Self. The Self is associated with thought and is concerned with the contemplative life. The Self is represented in the symbol as the blue circle at the bottom right.

The Self has the perspective of a human alone and by oneself concentrating and studying the thoughts of other thinkers. The Self reads many books of past thinkers who have come down in history and are known for their cogent thoughts.

The Self gleans from these past thinkers thoughts which form the basis of the Self’s own thoughts. From there the Self thinks for oneself and builds a structure of thoughts which are entirely the Self’s own. Eventually the Self leaves behind the thoughts of all other thinkers and lives according to one’s own thoughts. These thoughts live eternally.

[bobsavegan]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

Here we are at the exhibit of the Self. The Self is associated with thought and is concerned with the contemplative life. The Self is represented in the symbol as the blue circle at the bottom right.

The Self has the perspective of a human alone and by oneself concentrating and studying the thoughts of other thinkers. The Self reads many books of past thinkers who have come down in history and are known for their cogent thoughts.

The Self gleans from these past thinkers thoughts which form the basis of the Self’s own thoughts. From there the Self thinks for oneself and builds a structure of thoughts which are entirely the Self’s own. Eventually the Self leaves behind the thoughts of all other thinkers and lives according to one’s own thoughts. These thoughts live eternally.

The Self needs time by oneself in solitude in order to contemplate the eternal truths. The Self cannot be distracted from deep thought.

Thought is the function of the mind. Mind sets the human life apart from every other form of life in the natural order. The mind is the reason the human thinks itself to be a superior creature and ruler of the natural order.

Since thought is the function of the mind, thought is formed by the use of Reason. Reason is instrumental to well-formed thoughts. Reason is the one and only instrument used by the mind.

[bobsavegan]

Let’s walk around a little and look at this aspect…

Self-Evident Truths are the only aspect of the Human that the mind can be certain of. They are a product of the mind's ability to think.

One self-evident truth is that each individual exists. Another self-evident truth is that everyone has a reason. And a third self-evident truth is that everybody has feelings.

[davidm]

1. That individuals exist may or may not be self-evident, depending on how you define "individual." Under your own idiosyncratic definition of the word, it is not self-evident that individuals exist.

2. "Everyone has a reason" is vague and hence not self-evident or even well-defined.

3. It is not self-evident that everyone has feelings. It is not even self-evident that everyone has a mind, as opposed to being a zombie without internal mental states. This is called, in philosophy, "the problem of other minds."

[davidm]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

Thought is the function of the mind. Mind sets the human life apart from every other form of life in the natural order.

I've already explained to you that other creatures have been demonstrated to have minds, keeping in mind (heh) the caveat of the "problem of other minds." But if other animals don't have minds, than other humans don't, either. Please stop saying that other animals don't have minds.

The mind is the reason the human thinks itself to be a superior creature and ruler of the natural order.

Humans are not superior to other animals, and do not "rule" the natural order. Quite the other way around, with respect to the latter claim. The victims of natural disasters the world over that happen all the time would love to have "ruled" nature.

Since thought is the function of the mind, thought is formed by the use of Reason. Reason is instrumental to well-formed thoughts. Reason is the one and only instrument used by the mind.

Pure bullshit, Bob. Feelings and emotions are just as important in reason in thinking. This has been demonstrated scientifically. Maybe you should read something besides your own books.

[bobsavegan]

Originally Posted by davidm

I've already explained to you that other creatures have been demonstrated to have minds, keeping in mind (heh) the caveat of the "problem of other minds." But if other animals don't have minds, than other humans don't, either. Please stop saying that other animals don't have minds.

Humans are not superior to other animals, and do not "rule" the natural order. Quite the other way around, with respect to the latter claim. The victims of natural disasters the world over that happen all the time would love to have "ruled" nature.

Pure bullshit, Bob. Feelings and emotions are just as important in reason in thinking. This has been demonstrated scientifically. Maybe you should read something besides your own books.

David, I don't know anything about you or what your Philosophy of Life is, but if you are in retirement then I would suggest that you STOP reading other people's scientific proofs and START thinking for yourself.

Feelings and emotions I write about under the section on the Person. The Self for all intends and purposes is without feelings and emotions.

The Whole Human has impulses, reasons, and feelings. The Whole Human is able to harmonize all three into a whole.

I would also suggest that you refrain from pre-judgment and wait until you have all the evidence. You seem to me to be a very prejudicial person as do a lot of others on this forum.

The least you could say is that my Philosophy of Life is very interesting so far instead of cursing me out

[davidm]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

David, I don't know anything about you or what your Philosophy of Life is,…

I don't have a "philosophy of life."

... but if you are in retirement …

I'm not.

then I would suggest that you STOP reading other people's scientific proofs and START thinking for yourself.

Dumb-ass suggestion duly noted. First, there is no such thing as scientific "proofs." Science is not about proof. Second, reading what other people write, and thinking for one's self, are not mutually exclusive activities, as you seem to think.

Feelings and emotions I write about under the section on the Person. The Self for all intends and purposes is without feelings and emotions.

And as I've already explained to you, no one accepts your arbitrary division of people into "self," "person," and "individual," since you have provided no evidence to substantiate this compartmentalization.

I would also suggest that you refrain from pre-judgment and wait until you have all the evidence.

LOL, I haven't "pre-judged" anything. I've read your words and commented on how stupid and wrong they are. As to evidence, you have none.

The least you could say is that my Philosophy of Life is very interesting so far …

It's not. When you are not stating factual errors -- such as stating that humans have always dwelled on earth (they have not); humans are not animals (they are); feelings literally originate in the heart (they don't); and so on, what you write consists of empty banalities.

… instead of cursing me out

I didn't curse you out.

[bobsavegan]

Originally Posted by davidm

1. That individuals exist may or may not be self-evident, depending on how you define "individual." Under your own idiosyncratic definition of the word, it is not self-evident that individuals exist.

2. "Everyone has a reason" is vague and hence not self-evident or even well-defined.

3. It is not self-evident that everyone has feelings. It is not even self-evident that everyone has a mind, as opposed to being a zombie without internal mental states. This is called, in philosophy, "the problem of other minds."

David, that the Individual exists is self-evident to me. All I have to do is look at nature to see this. Generally speaking, trees are single entities, so are flowers, so are blades of grass. This also applies to their seed. all seeds are single entities. This observation is also true for human individuals. All humans that I observe are single entities. If humans are conjoined at birth then they seldom survive without surgical intervention.

That everyone has a reason is also self-evident to myself. The question that proves this is "WHY?". In my own life I have most often come up with an answer to this question. If I don't have an answer then I usually say "I don't know. I haven't thought about it."

That everybody has feelings I find also to be self evident. This is derived from my own feelings and the relationships I have had with other persons.
Possibly you have not had anybody say to you that somebody hurt their feelings Or possibly you have never had your own feelings hurt by somebody.

[davidm]

We're not talking about whether your above claims are true, Bob. We're talking about whether they are self-evidently true. Big difference.

But this has already been discussed with you. Predictably, you ignored that discussion, because you couldn't wait to spam the boards with more of your bloviating.

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

The Whole Human has impulses, reasons, and feelings. The Whole Human is able to harmonize all three into a whole.

"The Whole Human" is a figment of your imagination. You have yet to offer a single, solitary shred of evidence or argument to support the notion that such a thing exists.

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

I would also suggest that you refrain from pre-judgment and wait until you have all the evidence.

You wouldn't know evidence if it walked up to you, introduced itself, dropped its pants and took a gargantuan shit on your shoes.

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

The least you could say is that my Philosophy of Life is very interesting so far

You either grossly overestimate your own abilities or have a preposterously low bar for what qualifies as interesting. Maybe both.

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

instead of cursing me out

Go fuck yourself.

[bobsavegan]

My own Whole Human with its desires, reasons, and feelings with their sense of wonder and imagination is evidence enough for me. While it is not over yet and hasn't reached its conclusion, so far so good.

[bobsavegan]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

Let’s walk around a little and look at this aspect…

Self-Evident Truths are the only aspect of the Human that the mind can be certain of. They are a product of the mind's ability to think.

One self-evident truth is that each individual exists. Another self-evident truth is that everyone has a reason. And a third self-evident truth is that everybody has feelings.

Self-evident truths are only required by the Self. They are a product of the mind and the Self is the only perspective which can be assured by them.

They are ascertained by thinking by and for myself. They are recognizable immediately by any self who has contemplated them. They are recognized as being eternal truths.