General LGBTQIA issues thread

[Ymir's blood]

Only if god is a baby goat.

[erimir]

It's not completely circular. If you think the only reason a gay officer could be blackmailed is because they could be thrown out of the military, then yes. But if the assumption is that a gay officer would pay a high price to stay in the closet for other reasons (mainly religion, societal stigma and/or family issues), then it's not. It's still a little bit, since the military is contributing to the societal stigma. Of course, I still don't think that's particularly great reasoning even though it's not circular.

And iit still wouldn't make sense why an openly gay officer would cause any problem as far as blackmail, seeing as they don't have a secret.

[Ymir's blood]

A lot comes down to the exact phrasing of the example though. It can be put in a way that is circular and ways that aren't.

[The Lone Ranger]

Not sure where to put this, but this thread seems as good as any.

It's my niece's birthday, so I logged onto Facebook to wish her a "Happy Birthday." I kinda wish I hadn't.

I got an account in the first place because all of my nieces and nephews have accounts, and it's a way to keep in contact. But when I signed up, I soon began to receive "friend" requests from people I'd known in high school. Because I thought it'd be rude to refuse, I accepted each such request.

Probably a mistake.

On the rare occasions that I log on and read through the threads, I'm vividly reminded of why it was that I'd always felt like I had nothing in common with the people I went to high school with.

There are all the threads that go something like this: "My mother/uncle/aunt/cousin has spent the past two months in constant, agonizing pain, and finally passed away last night. Praise God for being so infinitely merciful!" Ugh.

Then there are the approximately 100,000 threads that accuse Obama of being a Muslim and/or insist that he was born in Kenya, and that he is out to "destroy America." Ugh.

But perhaps most disturbing are all the "OMG Homos exist and that's TERRIBLE!!!!!!!" threads.



There's one guy in particular who seems to be utterly obsessed with the fact that homosexuals exist. He's an extremely prolific poster, and I'd guess that a general breakdown of his posts goes something like this:

1.) "Every problem would be immediately solved if we'd just get rid of the Damned Government and adopt Libertarian principles -- oh, and Global Warming is a myth." (25%)

2.) "Atheists are hateful people and hypocrites, because they all know that God really exists -- they just hate the thought of following his just and perfect rules." (25%)

3.) "Homosexual behavior is disgusting and perverted and a sin against God -- but don't you dare call me a 'homophobe'." (50%)


I remember him as a mediocre student at best from high school, and nothing seems to have changed. As best I can tell, his style of "debate" goes something like this:

"My beliefs are self-evidently true and don't need to be justified. If you disagree with anything I say, this is proof that you're a bad person, a hypocrite, or an idiot, and I'll say so. Repeatedly."

"I'm in no way obligated to pay attention to your refutations of my claims, no matter how well-documented. And again, since my claims are self-evidently true, I'm in no way obligated to provide evidence for them."

"I can say anything I want, no matter how bigoted, ignorant, or hateful, and that's just being honest and reporting God's truth. If you say that I'm being homophobic, ignorant, or otherwise criticize my behavior, this is proof that you are a bigot, because you're trying to stifle my free expression of ideas."

I've resisted the temptation to try and engage him in discussion, because there's clearly no point. If nothing else, the fact that he constantly uses terms like "disgusting," and "perverted" and "immoral" to describe "homosexual behavior" and that he openly and fervently insists that all forms of "homosexual behavior" should be outlawed -- while insisting that he is not a homophobe and that only a "bigot" would insist that he is homophobic -- rather strongly suggests that he can't be reasoned with.

The one time I did rise to the bait was when he was going on about "Intelligent Design" and how it was a legitimate scientific theory, and how "Darwinism" is so much BS. He was displaying such a complete lack of understanding of scientific principles that I honestly thought he was trolling at first.

And like many Creationists, he was mis-using terminology egregiously. I finally got him to admit that his use of the term "evolution" bore almost no relationship to its actual meaning.

His response? "If it's all the same to you, I'm going to keep on using it the way that I have been, because it's easier for me."

I told him that it was not okay to do so, because he now knew that he was mis-using the term. (For the sake of charity, I was assuming that he hadn't known that before.) So he couldn't plead ignorance. To continue mis-using the term thus would be deliberate dishonesty.

At this point, he played his trump card. He claimed that this is "always" what happens when he beats an atheist in debate -- they start name-calling. Which, of course, proves that they're just a bunch of bigots. And besides, they know he's right; they just hate the idea of living by God's just and perfect rules.


As far as I can tell, all of his "debates" go like that. He's openly anti-intellectual, and almost proud of his ignorance. And he's rabidly homophobic -- even as he claims that when he calls homosexuals "disgusting" and "perverted" and "immoral," he's not being homophobic at all.

And, of course, the comments on all of this threads tend to go along the lines of: "Preach it, Brother!" and "I'm so glad that I never went to college and had my brain ruined!".



The thing is, he probably believes that he isn't a homophobe. He probably believes that he's being utterly rational and objective, and that all of his rants "arguments" are carefully reasoned and well-supported.

Such concentrated bigotry and willful stupidity is painful to watch.

[BrotherMan]

You are uniquely positioned to oppose him in the worst way. Though you never would, it's just not your style. You could easily post pictures of all the gay animals. Just the pictures with a description of what animal it is (as you do, common name and scientific name).

My favorite would be pictures of all the gay penguins. They look so dressed up, like they're going to a big gay wedding.

[erimir]

Sounds like a closet case.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by erimir

Sounds like a closet case.

You know, the thought has occurred to me. Why else is he seemingly so utterly obsessed by the fact that homosexuals exist?

[S.Vashti]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

You know, the thought has occurred to me. Why else is he seemingly so utterly obsessed by the fact that homosexuals exist?

I wonder sometimes about that too. I don't obsess about other people's sexuality in that way, it's hard to wrap my head around those who do. I know plenty of religious people that don't obsess about such matters either, so I can't chalk it up to religion alone. It's just very puzzling. Surely not all those obsessed are closet cases, though? Seems like a heck of a lot.

[erimir]

My theory is that a lot of those types are bisexual, and they assume that basically gay people have the same experience as them and choose to have sex with the same sex instead, while they choose to only have sex with the same sex (or at least to feel really guilty after they have gay sex).

And I don't think there are that many who are that level of obsessed.

[S.Vashti]

erimir, those pronouns you used confuse me. And what is a "fast" person, in this context?

[erimir]

Sorry that was a typo, I'm posting from my phone. I meant gay people.

[ChuckF]

[Sock Puppet]

My theory is that, while a lot of them really are closet cases, a lot of them have no (or at least no active/conscious) homosexual feelings whatsoever. Instead, what they have is a starving desire for feelings of self-worth, and not enough self-honesty to admit how easy it is to condemn "sinners" who can't resist "temptations" that they themselves will never face. This shares some parallels with overprivileged immigrant-bashers who screech about how "this is a nation of laws" when complaining about people skipping the border to feed their families by taking shit jobs, in Facebook posts at their office desks.

[The Lone Ranger]

There was a story on NPR just today about how autocorrect sometimes makes strange and/or funny changes in people's posts. Substituting "fast" for "gay" seems pretty weird, though.

[LadyShea]

Family Research Council, so this probably goes here but maybe it goes in the lady threads. Not sure

Guard Shot at Family Research Council Headquarters - WSJ.com

[erimir]

I use Swype, so gay and fast actually do use similar gestures (slide from f/g to a, then to t/y, the slight gesture to s in fast doesn't make it much different)

Originally Posted by Sock Puppet

My theory is that, while a lot of them really are closet cases, a lot of them have no (or at least no active/conscious) homosexual feelings whatsoever. Instead, what they have is a starving desire for feelings of self-worth, and not enough self-honesty to admit how easy it is to condemn "sinners" who can't resist "temptations" that they themselves will never face. This shares some parallels with overprivileged immigrant-bashers who screech about how "this is a nation of laws" when complaining about people skipping the border to feed their families by taking shit jobs, in Facebook posts at their office desks.

Oh yeah, that reminds me of the other thing. They might be sexually repressed but not gay or bi, but nonetheless angry and bitter, subconsciously, that they have suppressed their desires but that gay people don't. If they can't be fulfilled, then you shouldn't be either.

[Ensign Steve]

I've seen it, too, where a person did the whole college job wife house kids thing so quickly that they weren't paying attention to the fact that there are other options. So not even necessarily sexually repressed, just repressed in general, and bitter that other people are taking different paths when it's too late for them to consider an alternative themselves. So instead they frame any alternative as some sort of evil to be delivered from.

[Ymir's blood]

I've found that to be true in my life. When I was trying so hard to be normal in the '90s, extremely judgmental thoughts kept creeping in. It was the freedom others enjoyed and that I refused myself that grated so much.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Family Research Council, so this probably goes here but maybe it goes in the lady threads. Not sure

Guard Shot at Family Research Council Headquarters - WSJ.com

Conservative commentors insist that this is "proof" that "LGBT activists are just a bunch of bigoted zealots who want to crush all opposing points of view" in 3 ... 2 ...

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by Watser?

Masked men carve ‘dyke’ into lesbian woman, then set house on fire | The Raw Story

Ok, I want to believe this or at least give it the benefit of the doubt, but literally EVERY CASE I've ever read about where someone claims they were attacked and their attacker carved hateful words or swastikas in their bodies has turned out to be self-inflicted. I'm pretty sure this one is too.

Sadly, I was right...

Lesbian who reported 'hate crime' attack staged incident, Nebraska police say - CNN.com

[Ymir's blood]

It's unfortunate also that the actions of one disturbed individual are so often used to dismiss real problems when they occur.

[The Man]

This is great.

[Ymir's blood]

Everyone in the crowd knew you were a lesbian. - Queereka

So, what else could I do? I threatened to hug him. I began following him around inside the circle of the crowd that was now growing as more and more people stopped to see the queer boi begging the hater for a hug, only to be rebuffed with exchanges like this:

“Are you a man or a girl?”
“I can be whatever you want me to be, baby.”

“You try to look like a man with your short hair and your clothes! What are you?!”
*At this point, I lifted up my shirt enough to expose my belly.”
“Wanna find out?”
“EWW GROSS look at your white nasty flabby blubber! Only your husband should see that because it’s PRECIOUS!”

“Why’d you cut your beautiful hair off?

*From the crowd* “SHORT HAIR IS SEXY!” “YEA I LIKE HER HAIR!”

[The Man]

Chick-fil-A to halt funding of anti-LGBT groups: report | The Raw Story

[Demimonde]

You know what that means?

Waffle fry time!