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Old 03-05-2005, 06:14 PM
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Alert Deadwood

The new season starts tomorrow night, and I know I'm not the only one looking forward to it. Meanwhile, to slake some of the thirst, check out this fantastic and illuminating Salon interview (requires subscription or day pass) with show creator David Milch.

The intro paragraph explains rather deftly why Deadwood is so genre-bustingly great:

Salon's description:We're so familiar with the clichés of the western -- the swinging saloon doors, the gunfights, the 10-gallon hats, the card games that erupt into a brawl -- that HBO's "Deadwood" can seem bewilderingly unfamiliar. Substitute manicured, Mae West-style dancing girls with prostitutes with black eyes, trade in "Howdy ma'am" gentility for foul-mouthed invectives fit for the prison yard, swap out the cheerful ragtime piano and spirited card games for scams and senseless murder and smallpox outbreaks, and exchange the black and white hats for honorable men prone to fits of murderous rage and scoundrels with the empathy of saints.


Now, I couldn't help but keen a little when Milch said this:

Question: How did you first become interested in writing a western?I had proposed to HBO a series about the city cops in Rome at the time of Nero. What had interested me was the idea of order without law. The Praetorian Guard, who were the emperor's guards, understood how they were to proceed. But for the city cops, who were called the Urban Cohorts, there was no law at all. So they were sort of making themselves up as they went along. I wanted to focus on that idea of how order is generated in the absence of law. They [HBO] were already doing a show about Rome in the time of Caesar, so they asked if I could engage the same themes in a different setting, and that was how I decided to do the western.


What?! Where is this show about Rome in the time of Caesar? They better not have turned Milch's swooningly delicious idea down and then shitcanned their other one because I have needs, people, needs.

Great insight into Bullock's character:Seth Bullock -- I would say 90 percent of the characters are real -- and Bullock, who was the first sheriff and who founded the first national park and became Theodore Roosevelt's best friend and in fact led the inauguration parade, was a guy with a murderous personality who embraced the idea of law as the only way he could control himself. The first scene of the first episode shows him hanging a guy rather than letting the mob hang him. That was a true story, and what he said was, "If he's gonna be hung, he's gonna be hung under color of law." For Bullock, the color of law as a disinfecting of the kind of violence which was inside him, as an accommodation and protection of him from himself, was the essence of his personality. That's a highly adaptive trait in the kind of Darwinian environment that he found himself in -- which is to say, he was every bit as violent as the next guy, but his violence expressed itself in an impulse to expressions of order. And so, that's how legal codes get developed.


Great insight into Swearengen's character: I don't think that Swearengen has any more of an articulate understanding of what moves him than Bullock does; it's just that his compulsions do not invoke a legal framework. You know, if you look at Swearengen, all of Swearengen's whores are bought at the same orphanage where he was raised, including a cripple who has absolutely no use to him at any pragmatic level. He is constantly presenting himself as a pure pragmatist, yet to insist on getting your whores at one particular orphanage is at once an impulse to take revenge on women, and also to rescue women. And in that complication is where most of us live our lives. And he no less than Bullock has a life which lives him, much more, I think, than he lives his life.


Another interesting aspect of the interview is how much Milch uses metaphors of religion and God to describe the dynamics of the show which is itself in no way top-heavy with religion. It's subtle and profound and thoughtful and makes me love the show even more.

Anyway, let's talk Deadwood, y'all. Favorite characters, plot twists, scenes, relationships? What are you looking forward to this season? Are there any Deadwood haters/neutrals out there?
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Old 03-05-2005, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

I haven't ever watched it, liv...and I'll be on the road tomorrow for a twelve hour drive to North Carolina for a regional meeting of Urban Cohorts so that we can all figure out how to better fight evil and plot out what we should be doing with ourselves.

After that whole Agrippina ordeal we try to get together every now and again.

:detect:

I'll be sure to look out for it when I get back.

:yup:
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Old 03-05-2005, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

I bet you'd love it, Ronin. The good thing is that since it's on HBO, you can count on at least 20 reruns during the week so you shouldn't have to miss an episode.

On a kinkier note, whatever you end up doing with yourselves, I'd be much obliged if it you would film it. :giggles:
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Old 03-06-2005, 05:26 AM
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Default Re: Deadwood

In the last episode when Jewel, the girl with cerebral palsy, newly equipped with a leg brace danced with Doc, Al Swearengen seeing the scene from his balcony perch, also looked down at Trixie, his former main squeeze, at the bar. She looked back up at him and smiled. He lowered and shook his head, almost as though to say, with out words, "What have I done?" His character is much much deeper than just the simple bully and crime boss, much deeper.

Anyway, I am eagerly awaiting tomorrow night's episode.
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Old 03-06-2005, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Deadwood

I really like the fact that all of the characters are complex, even the minor characters. I happen to like ellsworth because he says some of the coolest shit. It is interesting that he helps mrs. garret work her claim, but he never tells her that he saw her husband murdered.



As far as Bullock is concerned, the episode where he beats Mrs. Garret's father, asks dan to have him killed and then gets the colonel to have him protected really shows the depth and complexity of Bullocks character.
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

Hmm, I never watched the show but now I want to. I am very grateful to have HBO on Demand...I can start from the beginning :) Thanks for the interest piquing thread.
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Old 03-06-2005, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
It is interesting that he helps mrs. garret work her claim, but he never tells her that he saw her husband murdered.
Who is the suspect? Blair, Tootie, or Jo?
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Old 03-06-2005, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenly
In the last episode when Jewel, the girl with cerebral palsy, newly equipped with a leg brace danced with Doc, Al Swearengen seeing the scene from his balcony perch, also looked down at Trixie, his former main squeeze, at the bar. She looked back up at him and smiled. He lowered and shook his head, almost as though to say, with out words, "What have I done?" His character is much much deeper than just the simple bully and crime boss, much deeper.
Agreed. Even though it's entirely unspoken, I felt like Trixie was in a sense forgiving him with that smile, including him in that small but genuinely happy moment of Jewel dancing. His reaction struck me as a devastatingly sad inability to accept that offer.

Another scene which shows just how much depth there is to Swearengen was the blow job at the end of the second to last episode. It's probably one of the most disturbing scenes I've ever seen on TV. He tells us about his whore mother, the orphanage she put him in, his hatred for the woman who ran it, and all of this set to the rhythm of that hideous blow job.

Amazing work all around.
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Old 03-06-2005, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
I really like the fact that all of the characters are complex, even the minor characters. I happen to like ellsworth because he says some of the coolest shit. It is interesting that he helps mrs. garret work her claim, but he never tells her that he saw her husband murdered.
That's a good point. I'd never actually considered that. Part of it is that I'm still a little sketchy at keeping all the minor characters straight. :blush2:

Quote:
As far as Bullock is concerned, the episode where he beats Mrs. Garret's father, asks dan to have him killed and then gets the colonel to have him protected really shows the depth and complexity of Bullocks character.
Yessir, and I think that ties in really well with what Milch was saying in the interview about Bullock needing the law to essentially protect himself from himself, to convert his impulse to violence into an impulse to order.
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Old 03-07-2005, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: Deadwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by livius drusus
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenly
In the last episode when Jewel, the girl with cerebral palsy, newly equipped with a leg brace danced with Doc, Al Swearengen seeing the scene from his balcony perch, also looked down at Trixie, his former main squeeze, at the bar. She looked back up at him and smiled. He lowered and shook his head, almost as though to say, with out words, "What have I done?" His character is much much deeper than just the simple bully and crime boss, much deeper.
Agreed. Even though it's entirely unspoken, I felt like Trixie was in a sense forgiving him with that smile, including him in that small but genuinely happy moment of Jewel dancing. His reaction struck me as a devastatingly sad inability to accept that offer.
I had a similar take on that scene. Trixie smiled at Al, and, although, he loves her, he rejects her and the moment. He also has the compassion to end the Reverend's sufferring though.
Quote:
Another scene which shows just how much depth there is to Swearengen was the blow job at the end of the second to last episode. It's probably one of the most disturbing scenes I've ever seen on TV. He tells us about his whore mother, the orphanage she put him in, his hatred for the woman who ran it, and all of this set to the rhythm of that hideous blow job.

Amazing work all around.
yeah, throughout the first season, al talks and works things out in his head during sex. It is as if he does it to release the tension and stress but doesnt enjoy it.


I wonder if he fakes his orgasms :tmgrin:
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Old 03-07-2005, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Deadwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by livius drusus
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
I really like the fact that all of the characters are complex, even the minor characters. I happen to like ellsworth because he says some of the coolest shit. It is interesting that he helps mrs. garret work her claim, but he never tells her that he saw her husband murdered.
That's a good point. I'd never actually considered that. Part of it is that I'm still a little sketchy at keeping all the minor characters straight. :blush2:
well it probably helps that I have seen every episode 3 times or more on my comp.

Quote:
Quote:
As far as Bullock is concerned, the episode where he beats Mrs. Garret's father, asks dan to have him killed and then gets the colonel to have him protected really shows the depth and complexity of Bullocks character.
Yessir, and I think that ties in really well with what Milch was saying in the interview about Bullock needing the law to essentially protect himself from himself, to convert his impulse to violence into an impulse to order.
Indeed, if you think about it, Seth runs from responsibility by coming to deadwood, and continues to run from it once he is there. Yet, he chooses to become involved anytime there is an innocent threatened. If he hadnt met the indian and killed him, he would have killed the coward Jack McCall and not under the color of law. Does he become sheriff to protect the town from the evil that men do, or rather from the evil that he will do without the law guiding him?

sorry about the incoherence of the above paragraph but I think I could right a couple of thousand words about the subject in formal style and didnt want to go on too much.
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Old 03-07-2005, 04:04 AM
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Default Re: Deadwood

Well that was pretty much the shit. Did y'all see the preview for Rome the Series? I actually teared up. Go ahead and laugh. I'm not ashamed.

It was sexy, violent, twisted, and everything else.



bey, you made perfect sense, particularly on the second reading. :kissass:
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Old 03-07-2005, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: Deadwood

damn, liv, you are all about using the kiss my ass smily.


I cant discuss tonight's episode until later tonight or tomorrow, once someone rips it and posts it in torrent form.


but I cant wait to see it.


I think I will go look for a trailer for rome the series.
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Old 03-07-2005, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

Boy am I glad no one has begun discussing the episode yet.

It turns out I'm keeping HBO (and the rest of my soft-core porn cable networks...er, I mean movie channels). So, now I get to watch Deadwood. I DVR'd it last night and will probably watch it tonight.

But, I did catch the preview of Rome. Would it be wrong to admit that when I saw I immediately thought of liv (and, no, I'm gonna cite which specific scene triggered the thought).
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Old 03-08-2005, 01:36 AM
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Default Re: Deadwood

Sweet! Be sure to post here after you watch it. As for Rome, I'd say git yer mind out of the gutter, but it looks like that's exactly where the show is set. Much to my delight.

:caesar:
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Old 03-08-2005, 04:16 AM
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Default Re: Deadwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
I wonder if he fakes his orgasms :tmgrin:
Naw, he told the girl to go ahead and spit, that she didn't have to swallow.
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Old 03-08-2005, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

damn, I just finished watching the new episode of deadwood.


It was so fucking good.


with the Milch interview in mind




and truly what I love throughout the series is how characters communicate nonverbally.

I also like how sy tolliver wants joanie to love him, but his violent nature precludes it.
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Old 03-10-2005, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Deadwood

In typical HBO fashion, the colorful language of the characters in Deadwood has called to question the etymology of some of the cursewords used. To answer some who might question the authenticity of the use of fucker and cocksucker, I looked them up in the Online Etymology Dictionary:

cock/cocksucker - O.E. cocc, O.Fr. coq, O.N. kokkr, all of echoic origin. O.E. cocc was a nickname for "one who strutted like a cock," thus a common term in the Middle Ages for a pert boy, used of scullions, apprentices, servants, etc. A common personal name till c.1500, it was affixed to Christian names as a pet diminutive, cf. Wilcox, Hitchcock, etc. Slang sense of "penis" is attested since 1618 (but cf. pillicock "penis," from c.1300). Cock-teaser is from 1891. Cock-sucker is used curiously for aggressively obnoxious men; the ancients would have understood the difference between passive and active roles; Catullus, writing of his boss, employs the useful L. insult irrumator, which means "someone who forces others to give him oral sex," hence "one who treats people with contempt."

fuck/fucker/fucking - [Regardless of origin] Fuck was outlawed in print in England (by the Obscene Publications Act, 1857) and the U.S. (by the Comstock Act, 1873). The word may have been shunned in print, but it continued in conversation, especially among soldiers during WWI.

Just remember this quote from a man that lived through that era and oft wrote of the profane and blasphemous and the men who disseminated such, profusely and profoundly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Twain, a Biography
Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.
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Old 03-10-2005, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

I need a new job.

Several late nights in the office is cutting into my Deadwood watching time.

I gotta find time to watch it soon.
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Old 03-10-2005, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

On word: TiVo
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Old 03-10-2005, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumb
On word: TiVo
Yeah, I've got the show stored in my cable box DVR. I just haven't had time to watch the damned cocksucker.

I might have to sacrifice an hour of sleep.
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Old 03-10-2005, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

oh ok, I thought it was a "time it aired" problem. But apparenty it is just a time crunch problem. For me it is a monetary problem. I only get cable here becuase it comes with the apartment. No extra channels for me and no DVR. But thankfully more time.
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Old 03-11-2005, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

My only wish about this episode is that I had watched it sooner. A great second season opener, re-introduces just about all of the characters. Even the more minor characters get enough to let you know what they are about.

And once again, it's clear to me that Al is the smartest man in Deadwood. He is Deadwood. Sure, he's a criminal and he's looking out for himself. But, he's savvy enough to know that if Deadwood prospers, so does he.

His opposite number, Sy Tolliver, isn't so smart. There's an intelligence there, but it's the intelligence of a predator. Cunning and sly, but probably cannot see beyond his next meal.
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Old 03-14-2005, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

A slightly weaker episode than the first Part, but still enjoyable.

I'm still not 100% certain on everyone's motivations for their actions, I'll need some more time to suss 'em out.
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Old 03-14-2005, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Deadwood

My satellite is down for the count, I'm afraid, so no programming of any kind for me until the nice folks at Comcast come through. IOW, I'm kinda glad the second episode wasn't as good. It soothes my savage, in TV withdrawal beast.
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