Love

[bobsavegan]

Basically there are three types of Love, Eros, Philos, and Agape.

Eros is the hot Love of one other Person.

Philos is the warm Love of friends.

Agape is the warm Love of all Humans.

[bobsavegan]

For a Person the culmination of a relationship is Love.

In order for there to be Love, a relationship grows and progresses over Time. It requires effort to keep it progressing and thriving.

Passion accompanies Love. It supplies the heat from warm to hot. Without passion there can be no Love.

When Persons are living a life of Love each Person loses the personal singular identity of I and takes on the personal plural identity of We. The persons identify with each other and there is togetherness. All feelings become associated with We.

[bobsavegan]

Eros involves sexual activity.

Eros may be creative if the partners leave the possibility of conception open and there is the chance of pregnancy of the woman.

If there is pregnancy then it is a complete surprise.

At birth the child is often called a "Love Child."

[bobsavegan]

Eros applies to only sexual activity between a man and woman.

Eros also applies to sexual activity which is free and voluntary.

Eros does not apply to homosexual sexual activity.

Eros also does not apply to sexual activity which has any kind of coercion.

[bobsavegan]

Falling in Love at first sight is a wonderful thing. It comes on you suddenly and surprisingly.

If this surprising new Love is accompanied by sexual activity then it becomes even more wonderful.

If the sexual activity ends up in a wanted child birth then that becomes the most wonderful thing on Earth.

Stacey Kent - They Say It's Wonderful (live) -...

[bobsavegan]

Eros must be spontaneous.

Being spontaneous means that the Persons involved must be unprepared for Love. While it can happen at any age it most often is associated with teenagers. At that age a Person is most likely to fall in Love and take a chance on Love.

Jane Monheit -Taking A Chance On Love - Live 2004...

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

Eros does not apply to homosexual sexual activity.

Why?

[thedoc]

You really don't understand Love, do you? Everything you have written is from someone who has no understanding of Love. There is no sharp delineation between the different types of Love, and one definition does not fit all.

[Angakuk]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

Eros must be spontaneous.

Being spontaneous means that the Persons involved must be unprepared for Love. While it can happen at any age it most often is associated with teenagers. At that age a Person is most likely to fall in Love and take a chance on Love.

Jane Monheit -Taking A Chance On Love - Live 2004 - YouTube

A Lady Takes a Chance

[bobsavegan]

Thanks Angakuk,

I only watched a few minutes of the movie so I probably didn't get to the part where the "Lady Takes A Chance." So far there seems to be a lot of planning.

[bobsavegan]

No one really knows what Eros is. When a Person falls one falls.

From my own experience, I've fallen in Love three times, Love is beautiful.

Gavin Hope - But Beautiful - Live! The Jazz...

[bobsavegan]

Since I've fallen in Love three times in the past, I probably fall in Love too easily.

But it seems like I will never learn. I am still willing to take my chances and if I fall I fall.

Gregory Porter - I fall in Love too Easily en...

[Florence Jellem]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

Eros involves sexual activity.

Eros may be creative if the partners leave the possibility of conception open and there is the chance of pregnancy of the woman.

If there is pregnancy then it is a complete surprise.

At birth the child is often called a "Love Child."

Color Flo confused, dear.

It's been a long time since I've been involved in the "funny business," but it just seems to me, old whiskey drinker that I am, that if both parties to Doing the Dirty, as I think the kids call it, aren't using contraception, and each knows that the other isn't, and that therefore both know that there is "the chance of pregnancy of the woman," then the so-called "love child," if such a bun happens to pop out of the oven, couldn't possibly be a complete surprise, now could it? Unless the tawdry twosome are complete morons, I suppose.

Dear, are you sure you aren't some sort of Dirty Old Man? Quite honestly, your picture looks like the mug shot of a sex offender. Nothing personal.

Regards,
Flo

[bobsavegan]

The Love of friends is known as Philos.

Generally speaking, Philos does not include sexual activity. The one exception is Homosexual sexual activity.

The ancient Greeks were famous for this kind of Philos. When I was a young man, I remember reading Plato's "Symposium."

Socrates and his friends are at a late night drinking party and telling each other about their feelings about Love. Alcibiades, Socrates young lover, crashes the party.

From Wikipedia...

Alcibiades
Entering upon the scene late and inebriated, he pays tribute to Socrates. Like Agathon and Aristophanes, Alcibiades is a historical person from ancient Athens. A year after the events of the Symposium, his political enemies would drive him to flee Athens under fear of being sentenced to death for sacrilege and turn traitor to the Spartans.[8] By his own admission, he is very handsome.

Finding himself seated on a couch with Socrates and Agathon, Alcibiades exclaims that Socrates, again, has managed to sit next to the handsomest man in the room, Agathon, and that he is always doing such things (213c). Socrates asks Agathon to protect him from the jealous rage of Alcibiades, asking Alcibiades to forgive him (213d). Alcibiades says he will never do such a thing (213e). Wondering why everyone seems sober, Alcibiades is informed of the night's agreement (213e, c); after saying his drunken ramblings should not be placed next to the sober orations of the rest, and that he hopes no one believed a word Socrates said, Alcibiades proposes to offer an encomium to Socrates (214c-e).

Alcibiades begins by comparing Socrates to a statue of Silenus; the statue is ugly and hollow, and inside it is full of tiny golden statues of the gods (215a-b). He then compares Socrates to a satyr[9] Marsyas; Socrates, however, needs no flute to "cast his spell" on people as Marsyas did — he needs only his words (215b-d).

Alcibiades states that when he hears Socrates speak, he feels overwhelmed. The words of Socrates are the only ones to have ever upset him so deeply that his soul started to realize that his aristocratic life was no better than a slave's (215e). Socrates is the only man who has ever made Alcibiades feel shame (216b). Yet all this is the least of it (216c)- Socrates is mad about beautiful boys, following them around in a daze (216d). Most people, he continues, don't know what Socrates is like on the inside:
But once I caught him when he was open like Silenus' statues, and I had a glimpse of the figures he keeps hidden within: they were so godlike - so bright and beautiful, so utterly amazing - that I no longer had a choice. I just had to do whatever he told me. Symposium 216e-217a.
Alcibiades thought at the time that Socrates really only wanted him sexually, and by letting Socrates have his way with him he would entice Socrates to teach him everything he knew (217a). Yet Socrates made no move, and Alcibiades began to pursue Socrates "as if I were the lover and he my young prey!" (217c). When Socrates continually rebuffed him, Alcibiades began to view Socrates as the only true and worthy lover he had ever had. So he told Socrates that it seemed to him now that nothing could be more important than becoming the best man he could be, and Socrates was best fit to help him reach that aim (218c-d). Socrates responded that if he did have this power, why would he exchange his true (inner) beauty for the image of beauty that Alcibiades would provide. Furthermore, Alcibiades might be wrong and Socrates may be of no use to him (218e-219a). Alcibiades spent the night sleeping beside Socrates yet, to the deep humiliation of Alcibiades, Socrates made no sexual attempt (219b-d).

In his speech, Alcibiades goes on to describe Socrates' virtues, his incomparable valor in battle, his immunity to cold or fear. On one occasion he even saved Alcibiades' life and then refused to accept honors for it (219e-221c). Socrates, he concludes, is unique in his ideas and accomplishments, unrivaled by any man from the past or present (221c). But be warned: Socrates may present himself as your lover, but before you know it you will have fallen in love with him.

[bobsavegan]

Color Flo confused, dear.

It's been a long time since I've been involved in the "funny business," but it just seems to me, old whiskey drinker that I am, that if both parties to Doing the Dirty, as I think the kids call it, aren't using contraception, and each knows that the other isn't, and that therefore both know that there is "the chance of pregnancy of the woman," then the so-called "love child," if such a bun happens to pop out of the oven, couldn't possibly be a complete surprise, now could it? Unless the tawdry twosome are complete morons, I suppose.

Dear, are you sure you aren't some sort of Dirty Old Man? Quite honestly, your picture looks like the mug shot of a sex offender. Nothing personal.

Regards,
Flo[/QUOTE]

I am truly sorry that you are confused but I cannot do anything about that. You have to straighten out your own confusion.

As far as the rest of it is concerned you seem to me to be very prejudiced in favor of contemporary political correctness.

[bobsavegan]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

Thanks Angakuk,

I only watched a few minutes of the movie so I probably didn't get to the part where the "Lady Takes A Chance." So far there seems to be a lot of planning.

When the "Lady Takes A Chance" could you tell if she was looking for a husband and had matrimony in mind.

If so then I would not consider it free and spontaneous. It would not be "True Love."

[Florence Jellem]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

I am truly sorry that you are confused but I cannot do anything about that. You have to straighten out your own confusion.

As far as the rest of it is concerned you seem to me to be very prejudiced in favor of contemporary political correctness.

Well, dear, Flo is just asking: If both parties to playing "hide the sausage" know that the other party is not using contraception, and if, as you yourself state, both parties know therefore that there is a chance that the woman will become pregnant, then how can it logically be the case that a bun popping out of the oven will be a compete surprise to people who know in advance that a bun pop is possible? Surely, dear, you see the contradiction here in your own statements, don't you? Or are you just a silly billy?

As for Flo being politically correct, I've no idea what you mean. You're talking to a whiskey-drinking old broad who used to hit her home ec students over the head with a spatula if they pissed her off, and who lost her virginity under the football stands at Chester Alan Arthur Junior High at age sixteen. I was married three times, and had to kick each of my husbands to the curb. These days in my dotage I spend most of my time drinking whiskey, watching Fox News and masturbating.

Your friend Flo

[bobsavegan]

I am not in favor of Planned Parenthood or the use of contraceptives or abortion.

Love as Eros must be completely open and all outcomes must be possible.

"True Love" is free and spontaneous. Everything about it is a surprise. When engaged in love making and the magic moment happens, the climax must be together and a surprise. That is "True Love."

Jay Black and The Americans - This Magic Moment -...

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

The Love of friends is known as Philos.

Generally speaking, Philos does not include sexual activity. The one exception is Homosexual sexual activity.

So, you're saying that if a man and woman are lovers, they cannot be friends.

You're also saying that homosexual lovers cannot love each other in the same way that heterosexual lovers can.

That's a rather ... limited ... perspective.


Personally, I think that the relationship works best if those involved are both lovers and friends.

[bobsavegan]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

So, you're saying that if a man and woman are lovers, they cannot be friends.

You're also saying that homosexual lovers cannot love each other in the same way that heterosexual lovers can.

That's a rather ... limited ... perspective.


Personally, I think that the relationship works best if those involved are both lovers and friends.

Thank you for making me think more about what I mean and what I say. I try very hard to mean what I say and say what I mean.

Love is a very complex concept and word.

It is accurate to say that Eros is not usually achieved in a relationship when two people are friends. However, there may not be sexual activity when there is Eros and there may be sexual activity when there is Philos. Sexual activity is not a determining factor as far as any kind of Love is concerned.

When I was younger, there was sexual activity between myself and a male friend my own age. I remember that I had no feelings about the activity during or after it. I was cold as a fish!

[bobsavegan]

The Love of friends is named Philos.

The ideal form of Philos is Platonic Love.

From Wikipedia...

Platonic love is a type of love that is chaste and non-sexual. The term is named after Plato, who was the first to describe this kind of love.

Platonic love in this original sense of the term is examined in Plato's dialogue the Symposium, which has as its topic the subject of love or Eros generally. It explains the possibilities of how the feeling of love began and how it has evolved—both sexually and non-sexually. Of particular importance is the speech of Socrates, relating the idea of platonic love as attributed to the prophetess Diotima, which presents it as a means of ascent to contemplation of the divine. For Diotima, and for Plato generally, the most correct use of love of other human beings is to direct one's mind to love of divinity.

In short, with genuine platonic love, the beautiful or lovely other person inspires the mind and the soul and directs one's attention to spiritual things. Socrates, in Plato's "Symposium", explained two types of love or Eros—Vulgar Eros or earthly love and Divine Eros or divine love. Vulgar Eros is nothing but mere material attraction towards a beautiful body for physical pleasure and reproduction. Divine Eros begins the journey from physical attraction i.e. attraction towards beautiful form or body but transcends gradually to love for Supreme Beauty. This concept of Divine Eros is later transformed into the term Platonic love

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

When I was younger, there was sexual activity between myself and a male friend my own age. I remember that I had no feelings about the activity during or after it. I was cold as a fish!

I would hazard a guess that when 2 people who love each other and happen to be of the same sex make love, they don't find the experience to be so devoid of feelings.

[bobsavegan]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

I would hazard a guess that when 2 people who love each other and happen to be of the same sex make love, they don't find the experience to be so devoid of feelings.

It seems to me that you are speculating.

My post was from my own personal experience.

[bobsavegan]

"In itself, homosexuality is as limiting as heterosexuality: the ideal should be to be capable of loving a woman or a man; either, a human being, without feeling fear, restraint, or obligation."
Simone de Beauvoir

I am in total agreement with this quote by Simone.

Simone is my source for much of my feelings about Love.

When I was younger I read many of her books.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by bobsavegan

It seems to me that you are speculating.

My post was from my own personal experience.

Then you have exactly jack to say that's actually relevant when you talk about how 2 same-sex people who love each other feel when they're making love.