"you haven't posted recently ..."

[maddog]

Personally, I do not like the "reminder" doohickey that says, "gee, you haven't posted in a while" when you log on. If it is possible to ditch or disable that feature, put me down for a vote in favor of that option.

I have personal "issues" with things that are "personalized" in a wholly IMpersonal way ... like when your life insurance agent sends you a birthday card. I resent that hugely because, hey, you're a life insurance agent, you're not my friend. I don't know you, you don't know me, we have a business relationship not a personal one. It invades my privacy and steps over boundaries. They are using my personal information for financial gain. Some people think that makes it all touchy-feely, but I hate it. I hate being databased and "kept track of" for reasons of promotion. I know, I know, my reaction is perhaps unusually intense, but it is the way I feel.

I come here because y'all are my friends. I don't expect my friends to keep computer tabs on me and give me a fakey "personal" messaage ... that's actually a "dig," like, "hey you, you're not contributing enough." I feel "used" not valued. So if we can ditch that, count my vote for ditching it.

#1133

[godfry n. glad]

The birthday card from your life insurance agent is rather like a



"We got your money and you're still alive......neener, neener, neener."

[maddog]

Yah, I know. I get 'em from life insurance agents, real estate agents, dentist, doctor's office, auto dealer, mag subscription, etc. Pisses me off.

#1134

[godfry n. glad]

I don't mind the free calendars at the new year, though. That's what I get from my chiropractor and a real estate agent.

'Course, I'm a tightwad cheapskate.

[Shelli]

I've never gotten that reminder. I wonder why?

[Dingfod]

Originally Posted by Shelli

I've never gotten that reminder. I wonder why?

You and me, both.

[godfry n. glad]

Gee...yeah. That is curious. Me neither.

[Shelli]

[Kyuss Apollo]

Originally Posted by Dingfod

You and me, both.

Maybe they don't like you.



But only in an impersonal way.

[Dingfod]

That's what I was thinking.

[Shelli]

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by maddog

I have personal "issues" with things that are "personalized" in a wholly IMpersonal way ... like when your life insurance agent sends you a birthday card. I resent that hugely because, hey, you're a life insurance agent, you're not my friend. I don't know you, you don't know me, we have a business relationship not a personal one. It invades my privacy and steps over boundaries. They are using my personal information for financial gain. Some people think that makes it all touchy-feely, but I hate it. I hate being databased and "kept track of" for reasons of promotion. I know, I know, my reaction is perhaps unusually intense, but it is the way I feel.

I can identify with that, but it doesn't seem analogous to the situation here. We don't have a business relationship with you, we're not invading your privacy, we're not using your personal information for financial gain.

I come here because y'all are my friends. I don't expect my friends to keep computer tabs on me and give me a fakey "personal" messaage ... that's actually a "dig," like, "hey you, you're not contributing enough." I feel "used" not valued. So if we can ditch that, count my vote for ditching it.

The bulletin board has to "keep tabs" on you or else the read marking system, the PM alerts, anything else that depends on knowing where and when you were last here wouldn't work.

The message is not in any way a dig or a judgement. It's a reminder, plain and simple, and so far I've been glad to see the results of it. At least 3 people have posted news about themselves after some weeks of silence. I value hearing that news immensely, not because I'm using people but because it's really good to hear what's up with members who might otherwise be too busy to think about posting an update.

It makes me cringe to think that you feel like we're using and devaluing you. The opposite is true. We want to hear from you precisely because we value you.

Other people have commented that they found it pushy, and I understand that completely, but at the same time, if it results in "Okay, okay fine! Here's the quick scoop on my new job/new baby/new house" posts, it seems very much worthwhile to me.

[godfry n. glad]

Hmmm... then rather than having the autoremind remind them, why don't you have it remind you? Then you can decide whether you want to drop a personal note or not?

I'm beginning to see why yguy keeps coming back.

[maddog]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

I can identify with that, but it doesn't seem analogous to the situation here. We don't have a business relationship with you, we're not invading your privacy, we're not using your personal information for financial gain.

The important point here is the "personalization" which is, in fact, wholly impersonal. It may not be a "business" relationship, but the "message" is wholly computer-generated, and naggiing at that. It's not a personal contact from a friend. Impersonal stuff feels depersonalizing to me.

Originally Posted by livius drusus

The bulletin board has to "keep tabs" on you or else the read marking system, the PM alerts, anything else that depends on knowing where and when you were last here wouldn't work.

That's fine. That's necessary for the thing to function as we want it to. You need to know someone (personally) reached out and sent you a PM, or such private (personal) communication wouldn't happen. But nothiing about the "Hey, butthead, you haven't posted lately" message is necessary for the board features to function as they should.

Originally Posted by livius drusus

The message is not in any way a dig or a judgement.

I know, certainly, that it's not intended to be. I'm just telling you how I feel about it.

Originally Posted by livius drusus

It's a reminder, plain and simple,

And not really needed, IMO. If people want to post, they will. If they don't, they won't. To me, it's not very welcoming or inviting for an automatic "reminder" to nag me. If you personally are concerned for me, send me a personal personal message, not an impersonal "personalized" computer-generated log-on broadcast.

Originally Posted by livius drusus

and so far I've been glad to see the results of it. At least 3 people have posted news about themselves after some weeks of silence. I value hearing that news immensely, not because I'm using people but because it's really good to hear what's up with members who might otherwise be too busy to think about posting an update.

Yes, I like reading people's posts too, and I miss them when they don't post. But I'd personally prefer that someone reach out to me personally if you're really concerned that I haven't posted in a bit.

Originally Posted by livius drusus

It makes me cringe to think that you feel like we're using and devaluing you. The opposite is true. We want to hear from you precisely because we value you.

Thank you; I like y'all too. This is, indeed, still my internet "home." I'm just telling you how I feel about this particular "feature." I don't mean for you to "cringe," but I'm sure that you don't mean for me to feel devalued either. If there's an "ignore" capability for that "feature," I'd like to know about it, thanks.

Originally Posted by livius drusus

Other people have commented that they found it pushy, and I understand that completely,

Yes, I agree with them. Count me as another vote for "pushy" and offputting. I don't like or care for that feature, and if it were up to me, my vote would be to do away with it, or at least let me "ignore" it.

Originally Posted by livius drusus

but at the same time, if it results in "Okay, okay fine! Here's the quick scoop on my new job/new baby/new house" posts, it seems very much worthwhile to me.

And if it makes people say to themselves, "Jeez, quit bein' so PUSHY!" and they quit posting altogether, that is not what I'd like to see.

I fully recognize that my feelings may be unusual, either in kind or in intensity, and I recognize that my opinion is not the only thing that "counts" in this discussion. I'm telling you how I feel about it, however, because I think you might want to know. It's almost certainly not a deal-breaker for me, but you should know that that feature is not universally liked. I'm just adding a datum to the cost/benefit analysis, for what it's worth.

#1138

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by godfry

Hmmm... then rather than having the autoremind remind them, why don't you have it remind you? Then you can decide whether you want to drop a personal note or not?

Because that's not an option, and even if it were, it would alter the dynamic from a mild, generalized reminder, to an "admin demands that I speak" one. As you know, godfry, some people take even the mildest of comments from me as administrative pressure.

Also, it would be entirely impractical since I'm not necessarily going to be online when someone who hasn't posted in a while swings by. The entire point of the reminder is to nab people when they happen to turn up.

[viscousmemories]

Thanks for your input, maddog. It's definitely appreciated.

We believe that sending a personalized message when a new member joins, when it's his or her birthday, and as of recently when he/she hasn't posted in a while, is likely to be received positively (or neutrally) by most of the members here.

Unfortunately we have far too many active members for us to personally keep track of every new registration, birthday and visit so we can send out a customized message to each person, so we have opted to send automated messages, despite their being less personal by nature.

It's a lesser evil, I think. Given the choice between not do anything at all, sending sporadic welcomes, birthday greetings and reminders that people haven't said "Hi" in a long time (probably causing hurt feelings when we inevitably forget someone), or the less-personal but broadly effective automated message, the latter seems most consistent with our intentions.

[fragment]

I've never seen this message. I think I'll stop posting for a while just so I can.

[godfry n. glad]

There's no way to 'opt out' of this system?

Does that mean that every time yguy wanders away, he'll be reminded that he hasn't irritated us in a while, so he can come back and irritate us?

Does that seem wise?

[maddog]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Thanks for your input, maddog. It's definitely appreciated.

We believe that sending a personalized message when a new member joins, when it's his or her birthday, and as of recently when he/she hasn't posted in a while, is likely to be received positively (or neutrally) by most of the members here.

Unfortunately we have far too many active members for us to personally keep track of every new registration, birthday and visit so we can send out a customized message to each person, so we have opted to send automated messages, despite their being less personal by nature.

It's a lesser evil, I think. Given the choice between not do anything at all, sending sporadic welcomes, birthday greetings and reminders that people haven't said "Hi" in a long time (probably causing hurt feelings when we inevitably forget someone), or the less-personal but broadly effective automated message, the latter seems most consistent with our intentions.

I think the greetings and birthdays are different. People get "welcomes" because they come here voluntarily and start posting on purpose. I've never heard of "automatic" computer-generated "welcomes" to new posters, and wasn't aware that that happened here.

People's birthdays get bottom-of-the-page reminders because they voluntarily chose to include a birthday in their profile. Those who don't want that, don't post a birthdate. If the members who see the birthday reminder want to post a "happy birthday" thread, they do so.

The "hey, you haven't posted in a while" isn't like that. And the board functioned perfectly well without it (and so do many other boards). And, as I said, that particular feature isn't universally liked. As for me personally, it pisses me off.

I understand about the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" aspect of it, so I sorta understand that choice. I'm just saying I'd prefer not to have it for the "you haven't posted in a while" message.

#1139

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by maddog

The "hey, you haven't posted in a while" isn't like that. And the board functioned perfectly well without it (and so do many other boards). And, as I said, that particular feature isn't universally liked. As for me personally, it pisses me off.

I understand that it pisses you off, and I'm sorry. I could install opt-out functionality, but that would be another hack and every hack we add has an impact on performance, upgrades, etc. A 'cost', if you will. I'm not saying I won't do it, just that we tend to weigh every feature request by how many people are likely to want or use it against the cost of adding it. Technically speaking none of the 50+ hacks we've installed are necessary for the board to function, and given the feedback we've received over the years I would be very surprised if any one of those features is universally liked. We chose each one based on whether we thought the net effect on the forum experience for the membership taken as a whole would be positive enough to justify the cost.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by maddog

I think the greetings and birthdays are different. People get "welcomes" because they come here voluntarily and start posting on purpose. I've never heard of "automatic" computer-generated "welcomes" to new posters, and wasn't aware that that happened here.

We've actually had an automated welcome PM sent to every new registrant since we opened. It points new users to the Archway forum and "Say Hi, Gracie" thread.

It's an extremely popular hack implemented on many vBulletin boards. Some boards take it a step further and generate an automated welcome thread for every new user.

People's birthdays get bottom-of-the-page reminders because they voluntarily chose to include a birthday in their profile. Those who don't want that, don't post a birthdate. If the members who see the birthday reminder want to post a "happy birthday" thread, they do so.

People get an automated birthday email as well. Of course, as you note, people who don't include their birthday on their profiles won't receive the email, but just to clarify, vm wasn't referring to the birthday field on the forum index but to a "faux personal" email.

[ftpaddict]

Now that's an interesting feature

[democracy]

I just saw that there is a new registered member here named "Listener". I sent Listener a PM saying "Hi". I have been involved in many off-line organizations. We always personally greeted people. Sometimes there was an elected official who served for 6 or 12 months in the role of greeting and helping members get started.

[pescifish]

I have considered that "you haven't posted recently" greeting a personal challenge ever since the new feature was announced.

But then I am admittedly quite fucked up these days. I also confess that when the greeting eventually showed up when I lurked, it felt deliciously self-pitying to know "Hey, at least something noticed I haven't posted in nearly a month!" (Did I mention I'm pretty fucked up these days?)

[inland wave]

It doesn't bother me. I don't find it offensive or disruptive.