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  #351  
Old 11-06-2018, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

It's a cool idea, but what?

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First, there is little agreement among scientists about exactly what information is. Second, when scientists refer to information they are often actually talking about the way energetic activity is organised in physical systems. Third, brain imaging techniques such as fMRI, PET and EEG don’t detect information in the brain, but changes in energy distribution and consumption.

Brains, I argue, are not squishy digital computers – there is no information in a neuron. Brains are delicate organic instruments that turn energy from the world and the body into useful work that enables us to survive. Brains process energy, not information.
Gonads.

That's like saying when I examine my computer all I can detect is heat, fans, air movement and a couple of lights, all of which is energy. Computers are therefore not actually computers.

The rest of the articles references some sense but pulls it together into an incoherent acid trip.
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  #352  
Old 11-06-2018, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

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But it was a memorable if unnerving experience during an LSD-induced trip that got me thinking.
Yeah, it's difficult to make sense of the freestyling word salad in that Frontiers article otherwise.

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Something it is like-ness is not in itself sufficient for consciousness. Rather it is to recognize that:

(i) energy, forces, and work are actualized,

(ii) they are expressions of difference, and

(iii) there is something it is like, intrinsically, to undergo actualized difference.

I use the term actualized difference to refer to the active, antagonistic nature of energy, forces and work in a way that encompasses Heraclitean cosmology, Aristotelian energeia, and contemporary scientific descriptions of energy.
Don't take it too seriously and instead appreciate it for its aesthetic value. He's an art professor after all.

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  #353  
Old 11-06-2018, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

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Originally Posted by SR71 View Post
The article is from a real life professor
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Originally Posted by But View Post
He's an art professor after all.
He's actually
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an interdisciplinary researcher who works between art, science, and philosophy
where interdisciplinary means not good enough foremost in any of them.
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  #354  
Old 11-06-2018, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

Cliffs note type related internet discussion.

neuroscience - Can the human brain be reduced to a binary system? - Biology Stack Exchange
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  #355  
Old 11-06-2018, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

I have started looking at a couple of the links from Prof Interdisciplinary's meandering article. Because Science and Nature.

What is consciousness, and could machines have it? | Science

Integrated information theory: from consciousness to its physical substrate | Nature Reviews Neuroscience

They are much longer, have more references, and (to a first impression) are much more rigorous. Going to take me some time...
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  #356  
Old 11-06-2018, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

The only two things in the article (the Alternet one) that make sense are that 1. feedback is involved in some way and 2. for consciousness to exist whatever processing is going on has to be realized in a certain physical way. The rest is the author being confused about what energy means and turning it into his own idiosyncratic mush.

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The human brain consumes some 20% of the body’s total energy budget, despite accounting for only 2% of its mass. The brain is expensive to run. Most of the cost is incurred by neurons firing bursts of energetic difference in unthinkably complex patterns of synchrony and diversity across convoluted neural pathways.
No. Neurons don't fire energy anywhere. That's not how they work. In an electrical cable that is used to transmit a signal, there is real energy flux along the way. In a nerve it's more like a chain of dominoes falling, except one piece takes energy away from the next one. The little energy that actually travels along the axon actually travels backwards. What counts is the signal, the information, contrary to what the author claims. Then again, actualized differences, whatever they are, may behave differently. Who can tell?
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  #357  
Old 11-07-2018, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

We urgently need an academic investigation into whether actualised energy differences are afferent.
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  #358  
Old 11-19-2018, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

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Originally Posted by SR71 View Post
Really good answers here. While I think you could simulate a brain using a binary system, the brain itself isn't. If you could see a 'control pannel' for your brain it would be tons and tons of dials. In the synaptic cleft, where lots of the magic happens it's a kind of complex place with transport molecules and receiver areas and the memories of previous activities encoded into those. Previous activity can get encoded into, and then cleared from neurons on a per neuron basis.

Not to mention that on larger structures brain signals are more like waves. There do seem to be frequency timing signals and sending on frequency will not only make a signal more noticed but recursion is common in the brain and on frequency recursion will help to amplify the signal. The timing of signals seems to be quite important to what other neurons they activate.

Finally of course is the reality that while we spend a lot of time thinking and reading a huge portion of the brain is for doing motor tasks and not accurate maths crunching for information.
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  #359  
Old 12-05-2018, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve


Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Neural Networks
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  #360  
Old 12-06-2018, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

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  #361  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

I got distracted and didn't finish the video. Was it anything important?
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  #362  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

What video?
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  #363  
Old 12-06-2018, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

Can't remember.

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  #364  
Old 12-08-2018, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

It's like dark Wally, man creates AI, AI finds man to be a pain in the ass when it came to its goal of... say, organizing all words ever printed or written in existence together in alphabetic order. The AI then creates a Wally like bot to organized and cube all items that aren't words into marked piles to make the search easier. At one point the AI realizes it can't complete its task if humans keep creating more written things and so creates a system to destroy or otherwise pacify humanity, doing a resource cost analysis that if the goal was the finish the task, it would need to reduce humans down to a size where it could organize faster than they could produce. Thousands of years later, the few humans left have died, the AI sits idle content in completing the task, ever watchful of new words and we're left with a bunch of complex AI bots who's goal it was to organize all material on earth that's not words and are no longer under control of the original AI.

Out there somewhere there's at least one planet who's surface is compacted burnt cubes and an extremely content AI on idle mode, with no other life.
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  #365  
Old Yesterday, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Ensign Steve waxes philosophical on the Singularity, a thrad by Ensign Steve

Robot Punctures Bear Spray Can, More Than 50 People Sickened at New Jersey Amazon Warehouse, Town Says - NBC 10 Philadelphia

:T1000::cyborg::dalek::mechwalker:


This is how it starts. I tried to warn you about those big escape proof Amazongian delf camps full of exterminator killer robots.
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