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  #1  
Old 08-12-2009, 03:39 PM
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Default Health Care Reform Dead

I'm beginning to think that there's no chance any more for decent health care reform. It's been poisoned by the lunatic fringe to the point that I just don't see how anything of value is going to pass.

I'd love to be wrong.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Move to Canada.
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  #3  
Old 08-12-2009, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Give global warming another couple years first.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

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Move to Canada practically any other industrialized nation on the planet.
:fixed:
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  #5  
Old 08-12-2009, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

I can't. I'm stuck here. :brooding:
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

The only way to properly reform health care would be to have a publicly funded universal health care system. Since this isn't going to happen, any reform would be a failure since it would fall short of that goal.

It annoys me when people call Obama a socialist. If he was, that would be a good thing.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

I think the only shot we have a real health care reform is on a state by state level. Big pharma and health insurance companies have been doling out money for years to "our" elected representatives.
So the best I think congress can do this at this point is change the federal laws that prevent states from enacting their own universal health care laws.

I didn't think it was much of a chance.

I would be happy if the "no child left behind" bullshit was changed though, I'm hoping education gets a bit better, only because there aren't as many corporations making money off of fucked up education.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

I think that there are some incremental changes that would be helpful and could lead to eventual full scale reform. For example, the provision in the House bill to stop insurers from denying people because of pre-existing conditions would help a lot of people. Sure, it isn't the kind of wholesale reform that is really needed, but it's a start. I also thing the provision in the bill for end of life counseling to be covered is an outstanding idea.

I've pretty much given up on the idea of complete reform. As of this morning, I'm further concerned that even the possibility of incremental change is lost in the firestorm of blatant lie and fear mongering campaigns waged by...hell...I don't even know who's waving the conductor's baton. It just seems to me that whoever they are, they've won. The whole debate has been poisoned and polarized to the point that rational voices are completely drowned out.

What prompted this is that I overheard some discussions here at work that have just blown my mind. Normally pretty smart people here have bought into some of the most egregious lies. I really thought that it was pretty easy to see that Palin's "Death Panel" was just a damned lie. But some people here believe it. It has blown my mind. I showed them the relevent portion of the bill and explained what is really is. Guess what? I'm the one who is "doesn't understand."

It's just fucking crazy.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

I do think it's crazy, it'd be great if they stopped the pre-existing condition bit. Advanced directive counseling certainly isn't a "death panel." I think they could have made insurance less draconian and available for a few more people, but I wasn't holding my breath that comprehensive change would be enacted.

Universal health care bills have passed in a couple of states to get knocked down by the federal law (ERISA?), so I don't think the well is completely poisoned. The reality of people's crappy experiences will eventually out weigh the stupid spin machine, I hope.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
I can't. I'm stuck here. :brooding:
I'll marry you and then you can get an EU green card. :biker2:
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  #11  
Old 08-12-2009, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
I can't. I'm stuck here. :brooding:
I'll marry you and then you can get an EU green card. :biker2:
How do you feel about kids?

ETA: And bigamy?
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Clues: I have kids and am bonking my ex. We'd be an extra-large happy family.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Hmmmmm...... :D
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

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  #15  
Old 08-12-2009, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
I think that there are some incremental changes that would be helpful and could lead to eventual full scale reform. For example, the provision in the House bill to stop insurers from denying people because of pre-existing conditions would help a lot of people. Sure, it isn't the kind of wholesale reform that is really needed, but it's a start.
I have a better idea: deny insurance companies any corporate status. As a result, they will have to work harder and be a little more creative to get customers. Not only would they start offering insurance to to people with pre-existing conditions but heck, I am willing to bet they will offer insurance to your dead relatives in preparation for the second coming.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

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Originally Posted by 1Samuel8 View Post
...heck, I am willing to bet they will offer insurance to your dead relatives in preparation for the second coming.
Shucks, given the opportunity to insure those with no chance of ever incurring a "medical loss", I bet those kindly insurance folk just might!
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Ah, the free market. So awesome it will even insure your dead relatives, and unburden you from those piles of spendable wealth you have for the privilege. Will the wonders never cease?
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
Hmmmmm...... :D
That sounds idyllic, but watch out...places like that demand that you do things like lasting through an entire meal with lutefisk without grimacing. And they have their version of waterboarding, too...they parboil you first, flog you with birch switches, and then immerse you in freezing cold water.

Barbaric.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Well, I could put up with kids. But lutefisk? Uh. Ewwwww.

Sauna, on the other hand, is right up my alley. Would I get to be the flogger or the floggee? :wriggle:
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
Well, I could put up with kids. But lutefisk? Uh. Ewwwww.

Sauna, on the other hand, is right up my alley. Would I get to be the flogger or the floggee? :wriggle:
I think the Finns deny the lutefisk and blame the Swedes (they blame the Swedes for everything, including the Russians).

I think the flogging is a reciprocity thing, but Miisa can clear up the details.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

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Would I get to be the flogger or the floggee? :wriggle:
:chin: aYup.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

It's self- ...er,-floggelation.

And lutefisk is a prank played on gullible tourist, FYI. :smirk:
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Lutefisk is Norwegian. Sauna is Finnish though. I know only one Finnish person (a friend of a friend) and she confirms the stereotype that they can take amazing amounts of booze.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
Would I get to be the flogger or the floggee? :wriggle:
You rotate.

...

...

(:bunnythrust:)
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  #25  
Old 08-12-2009, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by godfry n. glad View Post
I think the Finns deny the lutefisk and blame the Swedes (they blame the Swedes for everything, including the Russians).
Do you deny that they are to blame? :objection:
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