No, I don't want taxpayer funds paying for this kind of education.
I don't want government funding your type of education, and in a democracy if I get enough people to agree you will bow to my will under penalty of law.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
This particular type education violates the Constitution in a public school, so it doesn't matter if the majority wants it. And the US isn't a democracy
Ayn, you use resources you don't pay for and pay for resources you don't use but others do.
Speaking of, why are you continuing to resources you don't pay for? Seems pretty socialist to me!
This particular type education violates the Constitution in a public school, so it doesn't matter if the majority wants it.
So, I can tax you to fund, and require you by law to attend the education determined as long as it is not religious, is that correct?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
If I have no chidren, what moral right does someone have to take my money to educate another's child, and to teach that child(who will be my future competitor for scarce resources) things I do not believe in??
Life is not a zero-sum game. With synergy, the efforts of individuals may combine to achieve more together than any one person can do alone. If every person has to reinvent the wheel every generation, no advances can be made, in any field. No education? That's what you will get.
If you are going to be a business entrepreneur, do you want a literate and numerate workforce? No education? Industry, service and all businesses at a standstill.
As i said already (itt above) the whole of a society benefits from an educated populace. People who are citizens, who are business owners, who are consumers, or who occupy any role in a society whatsoever, benefit from having fellow members of society who are well educated enough to communicate clearly, vote responsibly, answer questions, solve problems, work together. That's true for every citizen whether ze has children or not. Those other people's children are not all, and not merely, your competitors. They are also your bosses, your employees, your customers, the providers of services you need, and your fellow citizens. Do you want competent employees, competent police officers, firefighters, engineers, doctors, contractors, etc.? No education? Welcome to the new dark ages.
If I have no chidren, what moral right does someone have to take my money to educate another's child, and to teach that child(who will be my future competitor for scarce resources) things I do not believe in??
Given that you're ineducable, we might as well use some of your (parents') money to try with somebody else. Moving on to more fertile ground and whatnot.
What I'm saying is, you're a fucking idiot.
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"Her eyes in certain light were violet, and all her teeth were even. That's a rare, fair feature: even teeth. She smiled to excess, but she chewed with real distinction." - Eleanor of Aquitaine
... what moral right does someone have to take my money ...
This is a simple, but by no means simply answered, question. I doubt you really want to do the work required to understand all the issues you have raised, but I hope you can begin to understand this;
None of 'your' money comes to you free of moral obligations, because you could not have 'made' it without using resources which you haven't provided yourself, but which you have access to thanks to the community you live in.
No one creates wealth without society's help, and the only people who can claim to be rich independently of the state and its tax-funded institutions, are those who have stolen everything they own from their fellow citizens.
The fundamental theory of liberty upon which all governments in this Union repose excludes any general power of the State to standardize its children by forcing them to accept instruction from public teachers only. The child is not the mere creature of the State; those who nurture him and direct his destiny have the right coupled with the high duty, to recognize, and prepare him for additional duties.
However publicly funded schools are bound by the Constitution and therefore must neither promote one religious belief over others nor prevent free exercise of religion by students. Private schools and homeschooling parents can promote religion all they want.
Last edited by LadyShea; 08-09-2012 at 09:22 PM.
Reason: Because I was all EXORCISE! Like the devil was in the post
However publicly funded schools are bound by the Constitution and therefore must neither promote one religious belief over others nor prevent free exercise of religion by students.
Where in the Constitution is that?
Also, where in the Constitution the power to fund and regulate State schools?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
However publicly funded schools are bound by the Constitution and therefore must neither promote one religious belief over others nor prevent free exercise of religion by students.
Where in the Constitution is that?
U.S. Const. Amend. I, cl. 1; U.S. Const. Amend. XIV, sec. 1. See, e.g.Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421, 82 S.Ct. 1261 (1962) (holding that use of a public school system to encourage recitation of prayer by students is "wholly inconsistent with the Establishment Clause").
Quote:
Also, where in the Constitution the power to fund and regulate State schools?
U.S. Const. Art I., sec. 8, cl. 3; U.S. Const. Art. I., sec. 8, cl. 1.
If I have no chidren, what moral right does someone have to take my money to educate another's child, and to teach that child(who will be my future competitor for scarce resources) things I do not believe in??
You're an idiot who'll always need to be cared for by others.
When mummy and daddy are no longer around, some other people will have to look after you, so it's in your interest for those people to receive an education.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
The Constitution does not explicitly say "Congress can fund and regulate schools" so he thinks it's a gotcha.
All Federal education requirements, or "regulations", are conditioned on states voluntarily accepting the Federal program funds those requirements are tied to. If states don't want to abide by the requirements of a particular program (say NCLB), they can forgo the associated funding (in the case of NCLB, Title 1 funding IIRC).
As for the establishment clause and religious education, you have to look to SCOTUS decisions as they relate to public schools
Epperson vs. Arkanasa
McCollum v. BofE District 71 (Illinois)
Engel vs. Vitale
Abington School District v. Schempp
The Court has upheld students rights to free exercise of religion and free speech on several occasions as well.
ETA: Even Mitt Romney doesn't seem to understand how this acceptance of Federal funds thing works, so I am sure many people assume various things to be Federal mandate when they really are funding conditions...a voluntary contract between the States and the Feds.
I had that conversation with my mom when I was in private school, so it was sometime fifth grade or earlier. She commented that it would be nice not to have to pay for the public education I wasn't receiving in addition to the private school one she was already paying for, and I said, "but what about all the people who pay taxes and don't have kids in school at all?" And she said, "good point."
Ah. I can see it now: the majority of gays and lesbians would get a massive tax refund from the IRS.
That should drive the wingnutters stark raving batshit insane.
__________________ In the land of Mordor, where the shadows lie...
Re: Public funding of private schools
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