Thanks TLR. I should have thought to look back through this thread!
I always read this thread when it comes up on the new posts feed and yet I had totally forgotten reading those posts. Once I saw the diagrams again, I did recognise them, but I was totally unable to recall any of it. My memory is sad.
Oh, it'sreal, alright. If you don't mind seedless figs that don't actually taste like figs, you can get "wasp-free" versions, though.
I wonder how many vegans/vegetarians have happily eaten figs while blissfully unaware that they are consuming multiple decayed wasp cadavers.
Poor vegans No tasty figs for them.
The home I grew up in had a wonderfully productive mission fig tree in the back yard. A while back I got a sudden craving for fresh figs and realized that I had not had a fresh fig in decades. Have you any idea how just how difficult it is to find fresh figs in Iowa, even in season?
Well, I persevered and finally got a decent fresh fig fix in early August (both mission figs and tiger stripe figs) from Trader Joe's. This, even after they said they weren't going to be getting any in. They did and I drove 150 miles (round trip) to get them they day they arrived.
__________________ Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful.
Our house in Rome had two fig trees. My dad used to pluck them, peel them, wrap them in prosciutto and I'd devour them on the spot. I'm very glad I didn't know about the wasp thing then, because that was one of my favorite things in the world.
I remembered the posts about figs. I don't eat them, and TLR made sure I never will.
__________________
"freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order."
- Justice Robert Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Ed. v. Barnette
When I was wee tyke my grandmother would slice the figs in half, sprinkle them with sugar and I would eat them out of the skin with a spoon because I thought the skins were icky. Eventually I discovered that 1. the skins were not icky and 2. figs don't need to have sugar added. They are delicious right off the tree without any modifications.
__________________ Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful.
It's been quite some time since I had a Fig Newton, but if memory serves, they have seeds in them. If they have seeds in them, the figs have been pollinated, and therefore have/had wasps in them.
Of course, the fig produces an enzyme called ficin which dissolves the wasps' bodies, so it's not like there are any wasp parts left in the fig by the time it reaches maturity.* The real issue with Fig Newtons, it seems to me, is that they're so thoroughly processed and heavily-sugared that they taste nothing like actual figs.
*Don't read if you wish to remain blissfully ignorant.
In that sense, it's probably less insect-y than is a typical food you can buy in the store. Any processed food, especially if it was picked by machine, will contain the odd insect or insect parts. That is, pretty-much any food that is harvested in bulk is going to have insects in it. That's inevitable. Like orange juice in the morning? Unless it's hand-squeezed, there's about a 100% chance that your morning glass of OJ contains the ground-up remains of a few insects.
For example, when I was a kid, I worked for a while in a pizza place, which bought its vegetables in bulk. Inevitably, when we opened up a box of peppers or whatnot, there would be a few insects inside that had been picked up by the harvester. I distinctly remember getting yelled at by the manager because I insisted on picking the insects out of the vegetables, and that was taking up far too much time. "Trust me, by the time they've been mixed into the sauce and toppings and then gone through a 500-degree oven, the customers won't be able to tell" was the manager's position.
According to the USDA, it is "unavoidable" that there will be insects (or insect parts) in processed foods. As such, it sets limits on how many insect bodies or insect parts are allowable by law in different kinds of foods. So far as I'm aware, the allowable limit is never "zero."
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“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.”
-- Socrates
Last edited by The Lone Ranger; 09-24-2016 at 07:34 PM.
According to the USDA, it is "unavoidable" that there will be insects (or insect parts) in processed foods. As such, it sets limits on how many insect bodies or insect parts are allowable by law in different kinds of foods. So far as I'm aware, the allowable limit is never "zero."
While that data might bother a vegetarian it shouldn't bother an Omnivore much, after all a little extra fresh meat can't hurt.
Anyway the real question is that I read somewhere, (maybe in this thread?) that dogs and cats see in light that is beyond the range on human vision. Some insects see into the ultraviolet to aid in identifying where in a flower the nectar is. But I can't remember where dogs and cats see farther than humans, and it occurred to me that if they could see further into the infrared, it would help them (as predators) to identify prey animals, as they would stand out against the background which in mostly ambient temperature, and the prey is mostly warm blooded, and warmer than the surroundings. It would also be an advantage for the prey animals to see into the infrared to better see the predator.
__________________ The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don’t know anything about. Wayne Dyer
Cats and dogs can see a short distance into the ultraviolet portion of the spectrum, and a short distance into the near infrared portion of the spectrum, but not into the thermal infrared. So, it wouldn't be of any use in detecting temperature differences. It would help them see better under low-light conditions, however. (Even humans can see a short distance into the "infrared" portion, under the proper circumstances. A dark-adapted eye is more sensitive to low light intensities, of course, and a dark-adapted human eye is capable of seeing a short distance into what is normally considered the infrared portion of the spectrum.)
The human eye is, interestingly-enough, more sensitive to emitted IR light than reflected IR light. For instance, some people can see the light emitted by a near-infrared laser when it is shined into their eyes, but cannot see it when it is reflected off a surface.
What a human sees in low-light conditions (above), vs. what a cat might see under the same conditions.
Many insects do indeed see quite well in the ultraviolet portion of the spectrum, and quite a lot of flowers have patterns that are only visible in ultraviolet, and are presumably adaptations to attract insects. (These patterns are called "nectar guides," as they help guide bees, butterflies, etc. to the flower's nectar -- and pollen.)
Some spiders take advantage of this, by the way. Some spider species weave patterns into their webs that are visible in UV light, but not visible light. Presumably, these patterns are adaptations for luring in unwary insects.
An Evening Primrose flower in visible light (above), and in near ultraviolet (below). The nectar guides are clearly visible in ultraviolet light.
Incidentally, some carnivorous plants have leaf and flower patterns that are visible only in ultraviolet light. Presumably, these function much like nectar guides, but instead of luring insects in for a meal, they lure insects in to be a meal.
The carnivorous Pitcher Plant Nepenthes khasiana in visible light (above) and ultraviolet light (below). When the plants are painted with a UV-masking (but otherwise invisible) compound, their ability to capture insects drops dramatically.
__________________
“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.”
The carnivorous Pitcher Plant Nepenthes khasiana in visible light (above) and ultraviolet light (below). When the plants are painted with a UV-masking (but otherwise invisible) compound, their ability to capture insects drops dramatically.
I'd wondered where they got this Pokemon from:
__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid
Could be, I've had my brain shaken loose by a few roller coasters.
+1 Beer for you!
I got the following tip from a urologist who asked to remain anonymous. Try it at your own risk.
Drink a six pack of beer while sitting in a bathtub filled with hot (not scalding hot) water. Then pee in the tub. The beer of course promotes urination and relaxation and the hot water increases the relaxation all the things that need to be relaxed. You should probably do this under supervision so you don't drown, though drowning will also solve the kidney stone problem.
__________________ Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful.
Could be, I've had my brain shaken loose by a few roller coasters.
+1 Beer for you!
I got the following tip from a urologist who asked to remain anonymous. Try it at your own risk.
Drink a six pack of beer while sitting in a bathtub filled with hot (not scalding hot) water. Then pee in the tub. The beer of course promotes urination and relaxation and the hot water increases the relaxation all the things that need to be relaxed. You should probably do this under supervision so you don't drown, though drowning will also solve the kidney stone problem.
Whoa, indeed careful with that. My misguided youth had an episode involving the (ironic) dehydration a hot tub causes, coupled with alcohol increases the intensity of the booze. Kool Aid and a muscle relaxant might be a better first go to.
But yeah, someone checking on you.
__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid
Could be, I've had my brain shaken loose by a few roller coasters.
+1 Beer for you!
I got the following tip from a urologist who asked to remain anonymous. Try it at your own risk.
Drink a six pack of beer while sitting in a bathtub filled with hot (not scalding hot) water. Then pee in the tub. The beer of course promotes urination and relaxation and the hot water increases the relaxation all the things that need to be relaxed. You should probably do this under supervision so you don't drown, though drowning will also solve the kidney stone problem.
And for extra lulz, don't tell the person supervising what this is all about.
The idea isn't nearly as crazy as it might at first seem. In their article for the Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, Wartinger and Mitchell describe how they tested whether a roller coaster could dislodge kidney stones from an artificial kidney and allow them to pass. According to their data, given the proper circumstances, it was a remarkably effective technique.
(As an aside, the article has the best title I've seen in a medical journal in quite awhile: "Validation of a Functional Pyelocalyceal Renal Model for the Evaluation of Renal Calculi Passage While Riding a Roller Coaster".)*
Long story short: a.) not all roller coasters are equally effective, b.) where you sit matters, c.) and it probably is not a good idea to try this if you have one or more large kidney stones (that is, more than about 6 mm in diameter), as the stone could be dislodged from the kidney and then get stuck in the ureter, making the situation much worse.
Apparently, the violent shaking that some roller coasters deliver can dislodge kidney stones, making it possible for them to move out of the kidney and into the ureter to ultimately be passed.
They note that if you have small to moderate-sized kidney stones and are in good health, riding a roller coaster can't hurt, and there's a decent chance it'll help you pass one or more of the stones.
*Years ago, I was talking to a guy about a paper he'd published in which he described using a "manually operated hydraulic restraint device" to restrain Stingrays so that tissue samples could be collected. I asked him what on Earth a "manually operated hydraulic restrain device" was. He blushed a bit and then replied, "a toilet plunger."
__________________
“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.”
-- Socrates
Last edited by The Lone Ranger; 09-29-2016 at 07:17 PM.
Reason: Fixed a typo
*Years ago, I was talking to a guy about a paper he'd published in which he described using a "manually operated hydraulic restraint device" to restrain Stingrays so that tissue samples could be collected. I asked him what on Earth a "manually operated hydraulic restrain device" was. He blushed a bit and then replied, "a toilet plunger."
+1 [thanks] for the
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Peering from the top of Mount Stupid
Here is a question. This is one of a more theoretical nature. If we managed to achieve a method of faster than light travel, what would that say about the possibility of other technological civilizations being able to accomplish the same feat?
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Allan Glenn. 1984-2005 RIP
Under no circumstances should Quentin Tarantino be allowed to befoul Star Trek.
I don't see why you're combining two unrelated questions.
If we managed to achieve _______________, what would that say about the possibility of others being able to do the same?
Unless we have access to some resources that the others don't, then the others should always be able to do the same.
The resources might be some raw materials not available elsewhere, or some ability we have that the others don't - maybe we are much smarter then those others so they could never be expected to figure it out.
For example, you might be able to build a trampoline, but you wouldn't expect a herd of sheep to be able to build one even if you supplied them with a suitable tarpaulin, springs, and a frame - for one thing they don't have any fingers and thumbs to make putting the thing together easy, and even if they did have they're probably not smart enough and/or they don't have the motivation to do so.
Our current best theories would seem to rule out any practical form of faster than light travel - but those theories will be improved and changed in the future so there remains a slight chance.
Yeah, the laws of physics are the same throughout the Universe, so I should think that if we can do it, then so could any other species that has the necessary intelligence and manual (tentacular?) dexterity, along with access to the necessary resources.
That doesn't mean they will, but there's no reason they couldn't.
__________________
“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.”