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  #2151  
Old 04-11-2019, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: News Miscellany

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*Assange knew the emails he was given were the products of criminal hacking. It may not have been criminal for him to publish them if that was the extent of his activities, but "criminally adjacent" seems appropriate.
So every journalist who publishes classified information is now "criminally adjacent", whatever the fuck that means.
I wasn't talking about classified emails, you just assumed that based on me saying nothing about that. But to make things clearer, I edited the original post. The DNC/Podesta emails were the product of criminal hacking.

Criminally adjacent in the sense that he was knowingly receiving the products of crime and disseminating them in a way that furthered the aims of the criminals (i.e. damaging America's democracy, getting Trump elected, etc.). I mean, it may not be criminal, but it is shady and it does involve criminals. It's close enough to the activities of the criminal hackers (GRU in this instance) that it would be justifiable to investigate Assange as to whether or not he broke the law, IMO.
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No problem with that. No way. Hey corporate media clowns, if you cheer this shit on enough, there is hope that it will be applied very selectively.
I literally said that there may have been no crime on Assange's part, that the charges against him may be BS (I haven't read the indictments) and may set a dangerous precedent. And specifically called out the Manning leaks (i.e. the classified info) as being the more problematic basis for going after him.

But you're going to read that and suggest I'm uncritically cheerleading attacks on the press. Of course, it's unsurprising that that's the angle you took, because defending Assange's Wikileaks* activities on grounds other than "it wasn't criminal" is a lot harder.

Also, I don't consider Assange a journalist due to, you know, his constant lying about the things he was "reporting" on, pushing the Seth Rich conspiracy that he knew to be BS, etc. At one point he was, I suppose, and the charges concern activities from that period... but he ain't one now.

*His alleged raping behavior, on the other hand...

ETA: after reading more, the basis for his arrest in the UK stems from his fleeing Sweden after the rape charges (skipping bail in the UK). That seems justifiable to me. The basis for the US requesting extradition is that he supposedly gave Manning help and advice with cracking passwords to access classified info, although it seems that he did not succeed in cracking it. That is less problematic from a First Amendment perspective in terms of narrow legal precedent**, but it seems like a pretty thin basis for the case. And apparently in order to keep it within the statute of limitations they had to label it as an "act of terrorism", which is ridiculous.

Nevertheless, while the basis of the US charges against him is very weak, he isn't a hero, he's a shitbag. And I don't feel particularly bad for him personally. And I think he should be extradited to Sweden, if they renew their request as one of his accusers apparently would like. But also:



**Of course, we know that the reason they're going after Assange is not just about this, so it doesn't really skirt 1st Amd issues.

Last edited by erimir; 04-11-2019 at 11:50 PM.
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  #2152  
Old 04-12-2019, 02:52 PM
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I wasn't talking about classified emails, you just assumed that based on me saying nothing about that. But to make things clearer, I edited the original post.
No, I wasn't even talking about emails. Disclosure of classified information is a crime, even more serious than copying some emails ("stealing" information is incoherent nonsense anyway).

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The DNC/Podesta emails were the product of criminal hacking.
That's not even clear. There's no conclusive evidence.

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Criminally adjacent in the sense that he was knowingly receiving the products of crime and disseminating them in a way that furthered the aims of the criminals (i.e. damaging America's democracy, getting Trump elected, etc.). I mean, it may not be criminal, but it is shady and it does involve criminals.
That applies to any government employee who leaks classified information. It's a "product of crime" and publishing it furthers the aims of the criminals, otherwise they wouldn't have leaked it in the first place.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:06 PM
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  #2154  
Old 04-12-2019, 07:03 PM
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The DNC/Podesta emails were the product of criminal hacking.
That's not even clear. There's no conclusive evidence.
Oh right, you're a Russia apologist who thinks they did nothing wrong, which means people should basically ignore anything you have to say about Wikileaks and 2016.

Even so, it's even more ridiculous to claim that the hacking wasn't criminal even if it wasn't done by Russia.

So what, are you a Seth Rich conspiracy theorist too now? Did Seth Rich get Podesta's emails too?

Meanwhile, if I recall, you are a total believer in the "rigged primary" narrative despite the released emails containing no discussion of wanting to rig any primaries nor any mechanisms of rigging any primaries. I might be wrong, but you even believe that Bernie actually only lost because of this unsubstantiated rigging. Very selective skepticism.
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Criminally adjacent in the sense that he was knowingly receiving the products of crime and disseminating them in a way that furthered the aims of the criminals (i.e. damaging America's democracy, getting Trump elected, etc.). I mean, it may not be criminal, but it is shady and it does involve criminals.
That applies to any government employee who leaks classified information. It's a "product of crime" and publishing it furthers the aims of the criminals, otherwise they wouldn't have leaked it in the first place.
The aims of harming America's democracy and helping a foreign government get a narcissistic sociopath elected are not legitimate aims.

Particularly given that the Wikileaks organization did not merely publish the emails, but gave dishonest and misleading commentary about them. They did no real "reporting" on them. For example, they portrayed emails that contained summaries of news show discussions or media articles as being Clinton campaign positions, even though they could've easily figured out what was in the emails. A journalist might have, say, talked to some sources to understand what they were looking at and put it in context, examined the articles and news shows mentioned to put their discussions in context (and discover some of them were simply summaries!). At best they glanced at it and pulled the worst plausible interpretation out of their ass without knowing whether it was even likely to be true, at worst it was intentional lying. I'm inclined to believe the latter, given that we know Assange was trying to help Trump get elected. Even more so when it comes to promoting the Seth Rich conspiracy theory and the "spirit cooking" insanity before the election and coordinating the releases with Trump associates to maximize political impact. That's not journalism.

Receiving hacked emails from the Russian government, and then publishing them at strategic times in the campaign (DNC emails during the Democratic convention, Podesta emails started publishing after the "grab em by the pussy" tape went public), and lying about the contents of the emails all the way... That's not whistleblower journalism. That is propaganda on behalf of an authoritarian regime.

And you know, I can take a position based on the fact that Assange helped this sadistic piece of shit get elected so that children could be put in cages, the travel ban could keep families apart, refugees could be treated like shit, Puerto Rico could be blamed for its natural disaster, and misogynistic crazies could start passing essentially complete abortion bans, etc. I don't have to pretend that both sides are equally valid.

Yet you're more upset I say that's "criminally adjacent", i.e. shady behavior but not in itself criminal, than you are at anything Assange did to help the narcissistic sociopath get elected. Meanwhile, you don't seem particularly interested in his misogyny (he has frequently attacked Sweden as being ruled by "crazed radical feminist ideology", for example, and derided his accusers as "treacherous women"), or anti-Semitism, or right-wing politics either...
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by erimir View Post
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Originally Posted by But View Post
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The DNC/Podesta emails were the product of criminal hacking.
That's not even clear. There's no conclusive evidence.
Oh right, you're a Russia apologist who thinks they did nothing wrong, which means people should basically ignore anything you have to say about Wikileaks and 2016.

:lol:


Yeah, I was waiting for that. Just like anyone who, during the two years of this deranged "Russiagate" Red Scare 24/7 media frenzy, argued that there is no actual evidence for Trump being a Russian agent, was branded a Putin puppet. Fuck that noise.



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Even so, it's even more ridiculous to claim that the hacking wasn't criminal even if it wasn't done by Russia.
Which I did when and where?


Quote:
So what, are you a Seth Rich conspiracy theorist too now? Did Seth Rich get Podesta's emails too?
No idea what you're on about now and I'm not going to google anything.


Quote:
Meanwhile, if I recall, you are a total believer in the "rigged primary" narrative despite the released emails containing no discussion of wanting to rig any primaries nor any mechanisms of rigging any primaries. I might be wrong, but you even believe that Bernie actually only lost because of this unsubstantiated rigging. Very selective skepticism.
Only? Probably not. But when an organization pretending to be neutral actively works to ram through their favorite candidate and its lawyers actually have to argue that, hey, it wasn't criminal, it stinks. The "Democratic" party should change its name.
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  #2156  
Old 04-12-2019, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: News Miscellany

If I tried to press charges against you for having sex with my sister, your lawyers would not bother arguing that you didn't have sex with my sister. They would argue that it's not a crime to have sex with someone's sister in the first place, so there's no need to discuss anything beyond that. Or have a need for discovery or sworn testimony.

That is not an admission that you had sex with anyone, it is proper legal strategy.

You might as well say that refusing to let the police search your house without a warrant means you're hiding something illegal.

But like I said. Very selective skepticism and benefit of the doubt. You don't apply similar reasoning to Assange or Russia or Trump, it seems.

It's a deranged Russiagate "Red Scare" (never mind that Putin is a right-wing authoritarian, not a Communist or a left-winger in any sense, let's call it a Red Scare to smear people who disagree as right-wing) when it comes to Trump and Russia. The fact that Trump has fired people because he wanted to interfere with the Russia investigation, that he doesn't want to release the full Mueller report, that his sons have mentioned on multiple occasions how much of their money and business comes from Russia, that he coincidentally won't release his tax returns like every other president/presidential candidate for decades, that members of his campaign repeatedly met with Russian operatives including ones offering political dirt "as part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump", that they repeatedly lied about the existence and purpose of these meetings, that Trump meets with Putin without typically associated aides or record-keepers, that the only change his campaign made to the RNC platform was one favorable to Putin, etc. all of THAT adds up to a media hysteria, rather than very good reasons to suspect Trump and to investigate.

But the DNC didn't respond to a spurious lawsuit by giving over all their documents and having dozens of employees testifying for hours to prove that the plaintiffs' claims were false and instead pointed out that the plaintiffs' suit had no legal basis. The DNC is guilty because they argued (correctly) that what they were accused of wasn't illegal in the first place. But it's hysteria and "red-baiting" to think there's something scandalous with Trump and Russia (even if it's not something Trump can be indicted for).

It seems if Trump were the DNC, you'd have declared him guilty as fuck as soon as the Trump Tower emails came out, if not earlier.

Last edited by erimir; 04-12-2019 at 09:05 PM.
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  #2157  
Old 04-14-2019, 10:19 AM
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A Cassowary Kills its Owner on his Property near Gainesville

Owner was breeding them. Fell, was attacked.



Not only is it a dinosaur, it's an Australian dinosaur. (OK more common in New Guinea.)

Of course it's trying to kill you.
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  #2158  
Old 04-14-2019, 04:04 PM
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Chickens 'gang up' to kill intruder fox on French farm - BBC News
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  #2159  
Old 04-15-2019, 06:27 PM
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Notre Dame on fire in Paris - BBC News

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Old 04-15-2019, 06:49 PM
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Attached Images
File Type: jpg la-merde-est-en-feu-nest-ce-pas.jpg (95.3 KB, 95 views)
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:13 PM
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US President Donald Trump suggested "perhaps flying water tankers" could be used to extinguish the fire.

What? Could you stop talking about Donald Trump for one second? This is about a goddamn fire in Paris.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:14 PM
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I rashly thought I read that it was under control. But a spire has collapsed.

Notre Dame Cathedral: spire collapses in huge fire – live news | World news | The Guardian
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:28 PM
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Looks pretty bad. Here's a livestream:

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Old 04-15-2019, 09:46 PM
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OMG, it really looks like it's gone now. I hope I'm just seeing this wrong.
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  #2165  
Old 04-16-2019, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamilah Hauptmann View Post

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Originally Posted by BBC
US President Donald Trump suggested "perhaps flying water tankers" could be used to extinguish the fire.

What? Could you stop talking about Donald Trump for one second? This is about a goddamn fire in Paris.
Just worth noting, though, that as usual, the toad in chief is wrong. Fire experts, including in Paris, were quick to say that Drumpf’s suggestion would have made things worse, not better. We have an utter buffoon for president who fancies himself an expert on everything, when in fact he knows nothing about anything.

Over at P.Z. Myers’ atheist-fanatics-fanboys-nutters blog, one vicious nutter is rooting on the destruction of the cathedral and hoping that the fire killed priests, too: “Good. Hope it took a bunch of kiddie-diddling pederasts in dresses with it, though am not expecting that kind of luck.”

Meanwhile, right-wingnut-troll-Nazis are using the fire to attack Ilhan Omar.

Here at :ff:, I wonder who will blame the fire on James Comey and the Vichy New York Times? :chin:

Gosh, no, I don't really wonder who.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:51 AM
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Be aware thrad replies in French and English.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:57 AM
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US President Donald Trump suggested "perhaps flying water tankers" could be used to extinguish the fire.
This all might have been avoided if only the French raked their churches more. :sniffles:
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Old 04-17-2019, 12:22 AM
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Assassin's Creed Unity will be used to rebuild Notre-Dame cathedral | Windows Central

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In order to recreate the destroyed areas, architects will examine images of the cathedral before the fire, in order to make it as close to the original as possible. While the majority of this involves looking at photographs and videos, Assassin's Creed Unity will also be examined. Assassin's Creed Unity is an open-world game which takes place in historic Paris. The cathedral was one of the most iconic structures in the title and appeared to be an exact copy.
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  #2169  
Old 04-17-2019, 05:04 AM
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Thrad on disaster protocol in 1000 year old buildings. And what the Versailles Oaks were planted for.

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Old 04-17-2019, 08:40 AM
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The Protocol of the Elders Oaks of Versailles!
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:54 PM
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Pig brains partially revived four hours after death - BBC News

This is important because:
1. :emostein:
2. This is how you get zombie pigs! Is that what they want? :zombieglomp:
3. :lolhog:
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Old Yesterday, 08:41 AM
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Sri Lanka explosions: 137 killed as churches and hotels targeted - BBC News
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Old Yesterday, 11:32 PM
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Death toll now over 200...

It seems to be suspected to be an attack by Islamists, which was not my first thought given the history of sectarian violence involving both Hindus and Buddhists. The attack on Christians wouldn't really make sense for Tamil nationalists/Hindu extremists but I suppose Buddhist extremists could be so motivated. But for Muslims in the country it's also strange that they would target another minority group - it doesn't make any sense if they have an issue with the government of Sri Lanka, which tends to prioritize the Buddhist majority's interests...
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