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09-01-2006, 12:25 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
Quote:
Originally Posted by viscousmemories
Yeah, congratulations town.
So hey, not to piss in anyone's Cornflakes or anything, but does anyone else think the introduction of random hoople beatings provided a breaking strategy that enabled this victory?
I'm not saying it did, but I'm wondering about it.
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It wasn't a breaking strategy in this game, but it definately has the potential to bend the game. But in this case, everybody not confirmed (aka, not me, JA, capp or crumb) could still have been killed. The roleclaim made a win for the town inevitable. But props to Adam who nailed scum on his first investigation, without that none of the rest would have been possible
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09-01-2006, 12:31 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Gender: Male
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
I think this may be apt, from the Mass Roleclaim page.
Quote:
Unthemed Open Setup games may also be vulnerable to Mass Roleclaim when too many players have unique roles. Since the number of each role is known, by having everyone claim their role, the town can swiftly narrow down which players must be lying. This can be far more valuable than whatever abilities the roles actually possess, so that it's not a deterrent that Mass Roleclaim allows Mafia to immediately learn everyone's identity.
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They make it sound like a bad thing, but I'm not sure it's fair to stop it... eliminating role claims would have the town slaughtered every time, I think, and it seems ridiculous to allow one or two but not three roleclaims on a day. Restricting what people may say in the thread would, I think, hinder the central game mechanic.
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09-01-2006, 12:47 AM
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Adequately Crumbulent
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cascadia
Gender: Male
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
Perhaps the baddies should have roles that can mimic the townie roles. That would eliminate the problem.
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09-01-2006, 12:55 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Gender: Male
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
The bad guys could beat people up, and they would of course be able to determine beforehand who to beat so they will not confuse themselves in regard to Bullock's actions.
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09-01-2006, 01:23 AM
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Adequately Crumbulent
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cascadia
Gender: Male
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
But they would confuse the townies.
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09-01-2006, 01:24 AM
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Admin
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, Mi
Gender: Male
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
Well, two things. When they talk about mass roleclaim being bad, I think they mean at the start of the first day. Not just any time in the game. I could be wrong about that. Secondly, the way they recommend you prevent the imbalance of a mass roleclaim strategy isn't to ban roleclaims, but to have a closed setup. Hence the way Spenser GM'd the first game here, with the whole "there might be 3 mafia, 1 doc, 1 cop OR 3 mafia, 1 doc, no cop, etc."
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09-01-2006, 01:25 AM
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Adequately Crumbulent
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cascadia
Gender: Male
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
ah, yeah. That is probably the best solution vm. Then part of the game can be trying to figure out how many of each role there are.
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09-01-2006, 01:43 AM
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Vice Cobra Assistant Commander
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
Yah, either being intentionally vague about how many roles there are and which ones even exist, or else making sure there are enough regular townies that a mass role claim isn't viable until late in the game seems best.
__________________
"Trans Am Jesus" is "what hanged me"
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09-01-2006, 01:47 AM
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Admin
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, Mi
Gender: Male
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
It seems aesthetically problematic in a themed game, though. How can you have a real Deadwood game that may or may not include some of the main characters?
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09-01-2006, 02:04 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
Quote:
Originally Posted by viscousmemories
It seems aesthetically problematic in a themed game, though. How can you have a real Deadwood game that may or may not include some of the main characters?
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The problem isn't so much the main characters, but that scum can't make up a claim. Imagine what would have happened had Wei claimed to be dan, and that if she died the vig couldn't kill. (My role pm says that I send Dan to kill somebody). She might have skated right through to victory
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09-01-2006, 02:08 AM
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Admin of THIEVES and SLUGABEDS
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
wei is a he.
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09-01-2006, 02:55 AM
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Member
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
Isn't Deadwood considered a closed game because we already knew beforehand which and how many roles there were as opposed to open setups where the actual roles are unknown?
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09-01-2006, 02:55 AM
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Admin
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, Mi
Gender: Male
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightson
The problem isn't so much the main characters, but that scum can't make up a claim.
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That's why I said aesthetically - the actual roleplaying aspect is diminished (imo) without players in the key roles.
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09-01-2006, 03:01 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Gender: Male
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
Quote:
Originally Posted by cappuccino
Isn't Deadwood considered a closed game because we already knew beforehand which and how many roles there were as opposed to open setups where the actual roles are unknown?
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Open setup means the opposite of what you think it does.
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09-01-2006, 03:03 AM
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Admin
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, Mi
Gender: Male
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
Nope, it's the other way around capp. Open Setup
--oops, xpost.
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09-01-2006, 03:13 AM
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Servant of the Dark Lord
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Gender: Bender
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
Quote:
Originally Posted by trillian
Nice win, though I think the way the game played out the town had the advantage from the start. If I had to do again, I could just prove myself by telling a player, "If I get to beat, I'm gonna beat you." and when they confirm I'm clear. It would be too dangerous for 2 Pinkertons to play that game. But I didn't know when we started that I would get the chance to beat anyone.
It seemed as soon as I got all the rules and interactions clear, I was offed.
JA wasn't suspicious to me until he acted weird on day 2 (now I know why). The person I beat up the first night was Wei Yau which was going to be my next vote had I lived. I did come back to the thread to suggest that Joshua investigate Wei but nightfall came too quick and then I died.
So Pinkertons.....why was I killed?!! I thought I'd be kept around for being suspicious. Now I am thinking that if I had suggested that Joshua investigate Wei, you would have let me live knowing it would look bad (and hoped JA picked someone else)
liv- Great job as our motherfucking cocksucker Deity!
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We thought you too dangerous. You tend to be pretty perceptive and we were concerned about that so we offed you. In retrospect, I think that was a mistake on our part. I should have urged the others to kill Crumb instead. However, at the time the second day ended I was asleep so I would not have been able to offer feedback anyway.
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09-01-2006, 03:17 AM
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Member
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Re: Deadwood: The Gem Saloon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Adams
Open setup means the opposite of what you think it does.
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Ah ok, gotcha.
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