Go Back   Freethought Forum > The Marketplace > Arts & Literature

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 09-05-2014, 01:21 PM
Stormlight's Avatar
Stormlight Stormlight is offline
Not a relevant party
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Luxembourg
Gender: Male
Posts: XLMDCXXXVIII
Images: 92
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

I just her on TV once and thought she was pretty funny. Other than that I have no idea who she was.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 09-05-2014, 01:54 PM
LadyShea's Avatar
LadyShea LadyShea is offline
I said it, so I feel it, dick
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
Posts: XXXMDCCCXCVII
Images: 41
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
Thank you, UK, for Richard Attenborough.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Janet (09-05-2014), mickthinks (09-05-2014)
  #78  
Old 09-06-2014, 12:39 AM
erimir's Avatar
erimir erimir is online now
Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
Posts: XMMDCCCIX
Images: 11
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser? View Post
All I know about this monster is how she wanted all Palestinians to die just a couple of weeks ago when Israel was doing its damndest to kill as many Palestinians as they could. And of course the horrible piece of crap wasn't even called on it. And now we are again going to get this fucking crap where nobody even mentions what a horrible hatemongering asshole this plastic monstrosity was? I'm sorry, but I can't do it. No, I'm not sorry. I hope she died a horrible death and I would shit on her grave if it was anywhere near.
And how many Palestinians can you find expressing some objectionable view about Jews, other non-Muslims, the wrong kind of Muslims, other ethnic groups, gays, women, etc.?

Are they all monsters too? Because if I gave into the same urge, fact is that there's a huge amount homophobia in the Muslim/Arab world so maybe I shouldn't feel bad when they die.

Yeah, she had more chances to educate herself, but realistically she did little to support Israel. Everything else in her life is outweighed by making ignorant and tribalistic statements on one issue that she has little influence on. Guess you're going to be shitting on a lot of graves.

ETA: To be clear, she said some really shitty things. But I would reserve sentiments of that nature to people like Netanyahu, who actually has the power and who has dedicated his life to doing those heinous things, rather than an ignorant old woman who was set in her views (but yes, she should've known better since she had all the resources necessary to inform herself for a long time).

Last edited by erimir; 09-06-2014 at 03:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Anastasia Beaverhausen (09-08-2014), Ensign Steve (09-06-2014), Janet (09-06-2014), Kael (09-06-2014), LadyShea (09-07-2014), mickthinks (09-06-2014), slimshady2357 (09-06-2014)
  #79  
Old 09-06-2014, 02:47 AM
The Lone Ranger's Avatar
The Lone Ranger The Lone Ranger is offline
Jin, Gi, Rei, Ko, Chi, Shin, Tei
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: MXCDII
Images: 523
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
Thank you, UK, for Richard Attenborough.
Yes, indeed. And for his brother, too -- though personally, I hope that David turns out to be immortal ...
__________________
“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.”
-- Socrates
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
LadyShea (09-07-2014)
  #80  
Old 09-06-2014, 09:02 AM
Watser?'s Avatar
Watser? Watser? is offline
Fishy mokey
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
Posts: LMMMDLXXXVI
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser? View Post
All I know about this monster is how she wanted all Palestinians to die just a couple of weeks ago when Israel was doing its damndest to kill as many Palestinians as they could. And of course the horrible piece of crap wasn't even called on it. And now we are again going to get this fucking crap where nobody even mentions what a horrible hatemongering asshole this plastic monstrosity was? I'm sorry, but I can't do it. No, I'm not sorry. I hope she died a horrible death and I would shit on her grave if it was anywhere near.
And how many Palestinians can you find expressing some objectionable view about Jews, other non-Muslims, the wrong kind of Muslims, other ethnic groups, gays, women, etc.?

Are they all monsters too? Because if I gave into the same urge, fact is that there's a huge amount homophobia in the Muslim/Arab world so maybe I shouldn't feel bad when they die.

Yeah, she had more chances to educate herself, but realistically she did little to support Israel. Everything else in her life is outweighed by making ignorant and tribalistic statements on one issue that she has little influence on. Guess you're going to be shitting on a lot of graves.

ETA: To be clear, she said some really shitty things. But I would reserve sentiments of that nature to people like Netanyahu, who actually has the power and who has dedicated his life to doing those heinous things, rather than an ignorant old woman who was set in her views (but yes, she should've known better since she had all the resources necessary to inform herself for a long time).
Nope, horrible monster all the way. But what pisses me off more than her being a horrible monster is how nobody seems to think it worth mentioning.
__________________
:typingmonkey:
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 09-06-2014, 04:14 PM
erimir's Avatar
erimir erimir is online now
Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
Posts: XMMDCCCIX
Images: 11
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Next time you mention someone Israel assassinated, then, I will check to make sure they never said anything bigoted. No reason to get outraged at homophobes being killed. Sometimes it is hard to support Palestine given that only 4% of Palestinian adults in a survey think I deserve to be accepted by society, homosexuality is illegal there, and Gaza's elected government wants it punished by death. Now I can not give a shit since apparently they're mostly monsters. Call me when they would afford me basic rights and I'll give a shit about theirs.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 09-06-2014, 05:36 PM
Watser?'s Avatar
Watser? Watser? is offline
Fishy mokey
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
Posts: LMMMDLXXXVI
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Just try not to be a hatemongering genocide-supporting piece of plastic crap and you'll be alright.

You may wanna cut down on the generalising and racism somewhat though.
__________________
:typingmonkey:

Last edited by Watser?; 09-06-2014 at 05:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 09-06-2014, 07:40 PM
erimir's Avatar
erimir erimir is online now
Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
Posts: XMMDCCCIX
Images: 11
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser? View Post
You may wanna cut down on the generalising and racism somewhat though.
Are you saying that the Pew survey results were fabricated? Because otherwise it's not that much of a stretch to go from 93% saying society should not accept gays, the fact that they voted in one government that makes it illegal (in the West Bank) and one government that advocates the death penalty for gays... to assuming that a given random Palestinian is a hateful homophobe.

Not all are, of course. I used to room with a Palestinian guy and we had no problems. Of course, he was an atheist and secularist.

I don't think it's racism to note that the large majority of Palestinians are anti-gay bigots. Because it's true. It would be more amazing if it weren't, considering the only Arab country that even has a notable minority of people who are accepting of gays is Lebanon.

But it seems if I take my own personal issue and make people's views on that the dividing line between who's a monster who should die a horrible death and who isn't, you might have a problem with that.

Last edited by erimir; 09-06-2014 at 07:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 09-07-2014, 05:44 PM
LadyShea's Avatar
LadyShea LadyShea is offline
I said it, so I feel it, dick
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
Posts: XXXMDCCCXCVII
Images: 41
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
Thank you, UK, for Richard Attenborough.
Yes, indeed. And for his brother, too -- though personally, I hope that David turns out to be immortal ...
:yup:
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 09-07-2014, 06:44 PM
Watser?'s Avatar
Watser? Watser? is offline
Fishy mokey
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
Posts: LMMMDLXXXVI
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser? View Post
You may wanna cut down on the generalising and racism somewhat though.
Are you saying that the Pew survey results were fabricated? Because otherwise it's not that much of a stretch to go from 93% saying society should not accept gays, the fact that they voted in one government that makes it illegal (in the West Bank) and one government that advocates the death penalty for gays... to assuming that a given random Palestinian is a hateful homophobe.

Not all are, of course. I used to room with a Palestinian guy and we had no problems. Of course, he was an atheist and secularist.

I don't think it's racism to note that the large majority of Palestinians are anti-gay bigots. Because it's true. It would be more amazing if it weren't, considering the only Arab country that even has a notable minority of people who are accepting of gays is Lebanon.

But it seems if I take my own personal issue and make people's views on that the dividing line between who's a monster who should die a horrible death and who isn't, you might have a problem with that.
Okay, so you're saying it's perfectly alright for that Rivers monster to advocate genocide of Palestinians, including hundreds of children, while this genocide was going on, because their parents are homophobes? Or that that was even the reason the plastic monstrosity came up with her hatemongering? And do you really think she made an exception for your secular roommate?

What I have a problem with is that you seem to think there is some way this would be excused by something the people who were getting killed were doing or thinking or more to the point what their parents were thinking, because a pretty big percentage of the people whose deaths that asshole was cheering were children. Apparently being disgusted by someone advocating genocide is my 'personal issue'.

Anyway, she's dead. I'm glad. That's the end of it.
__________________
:typingmonkey:
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 09-07-2014, 07:49 PM
erimir's Avatar
erimir erimir is online now
Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
Posts: XMMDCCCIX
Images: 11
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser? View Post
Okay, so you're saying it's perfectly alright for that Rivers monster to advocate genocide of Palestinians, including hundreds of children, while this genocide was going on, because their parents are homophobes?
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I know you get emotional about this subject, but try to read what I said without interpreting it as racist Israel apologetics.

Also, from what I can tell, all she said was that she didn't care about Palestinian casualties, not that Israel should kill them all. Which is plenty shitty, of course.
Quote:
I don't see why anyone would be making excuses for this kind of hate speech,
I was not making excuses for what she said. They were awful shitty things to say.
Quote:
regardless of your views of the Palestinians based on what they think according to some US research.
It's just some "US research" from a respected research organization. Are you implying that it's motivated by anti-Muslim bigotry or something? What reason do I have to believe it's inaccurate? In your times there, have you heard lots of pro-gay rights sentiments that are being covered up or something? Is there secretly a lot of tolerance for gays in Arab Muslim countries? Where is your unbiased research showing any other conclusion about Arab Muslim views on homosexuality? Because I've yet to see it. Muslim homophobia is used as a justification for Israeli aggression enough that Palestinian supporters would surely be bringing up research that disproves it if there were any.

And when it comes to the government/leadership (and doubtless many other Palestinians) we're not just talking about, oh, mocking-gays-with-stereotypes level homophobia. We're talking about 10 year prison sentences and advocating the execution of gays. People who think I should go to prison for a long long time, or get my head chopped off.

My point was that those who advocate such things would be "monsters" if you took the same views about homophobia as you take about Israel-Palestine issues.

My point would be that you're letting your emotions get the better of you. It's counterproductive to your goals, for one. For another, it's hypocritical to say Joan Rivers is a monster who should die a painful death but think there's anything wrong with me taking the same view on Muslim homophobia - unless you think gay rights are less important than Palestinian rights.

You're saying Joan Rivers was an anti-Palestinian bigot who makes statements justifying Palestinian casualties, so she's a monster who deserves a painful death. But if many of those Palestinians were homophobic bigots who support executing gays or horrific abuse towards gay people, I can't feel that they deserved the horrible deaths they got?

Because you know that's what the Israeli side has done - using gay rights as an excuse. "How come nobody is mentioning that these Hamas leaders and supporters Israel killed were horrible homophobic monsters?"

And you could take the same view any of the many other bigotries endemic in Arab Muslim society. You want Arab Muslims to be viewed as humans despite the many, many shitty things about their society? Then don't turn around and do the same thing yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser? View Post
What I have a problem with is that you seem to think there is some way this would be excused by something the people who were getting killed were doing or thinking or more to the point what their parents were thinking, because a pretty big percentage of the people whose deaths that asshole was cheering were children.
Yeah, I got that. And most of them were adults. But I don't think your position would be all that different if almost none of the dead were children.

But my point is actually the opposite. It's not excused by it. You're not following me very well.
Quote:
Apparently being disgusted by someone advocating genocide is my 'personal issue'.
It's your personal issue because it's the one you get most emotional about. Palestine is not the only place in the world where horrific things are happening, but you certainly react more strongly to it.

I agree what she said was awful. But I don't have the same personal connection and emotional response to it that you do. And sometimes, not just this time, you take it too far because of that.

I do have that personal connection to gay rights. And it is hard sometimes for me not to just go "fuck those guys, I hope they all rot" when I know that if I tried to live in those places, without hiding, my life would be in real danger. And knowing the horrible things that happen to gay people born in those places. But that isn't going to make anything better.

Last edited by erimir; 09-07-2014 at 08:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Kael (09-07-2014), slimshady2357 (09-08-2014)
  #87  
Old 09-07-2014, 10:42 PM
Kael's Avatar
Kael Kael is offline
the internet says I'm right
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCDXLIV
Blog Entries: 11
Images: 23
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

I really don't think that saying horrible things, at least just saying horrible things, elevates someone to "heinous monster who deserves painful death" in any case. I'm inclined to reserve that category for people who do horrible things, as a rule.
__________________
For Science!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Dingfod (09-08-2014), Janet (09-09-2014)
  #88  
Old 09-08-2014, 12:07 AM
Dingfod's Avatar
Dingfod Dingfod is offline
Gone Guy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In a Hole
Gender: Male
Posts: XLMMDCLIII
Blog Entries: 21
Images: 92
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

:dddp:
__________________
Sleep - the most beautiful experience in life - except drink.--W.C. Fields
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 09-08-2014, 12:07 AM
Dingfod's Avatar
Dingfod Dingfod is offline
Gone Guy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In a Hole
Gender: Male
Posts: XLMMDCLIII
Blog Entries: 21
Images: 92
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Supposedly, Joan Rivers was asked a question about the recent Israeli offensive in Gaza, and she was asked about the death toll in Gaza, to which she replied: “The dead? You deserve to be dead. You started it. Don’t you dare make me feel sad about that.” And she claims that was taken out of context. What context would make that acceptable?
__________________
Sleep - the most beautiful experience in life - except drink.--W.C. Fields
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
erimir (09-08-2014), Janet (09-09-2014), JoeP (09-08-2014), The Man (09-08-2014)
  #90  
Old 09-08-2014, 12:55 AM
Kael's Avatar
Kael Kael is offline
the internet says I'm right
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCDXLIV
Blog Entries: 11
Images: 23
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

None comes readily to mind - I haven't heard anyone that's not already firmly pro-Israel excuse or dismiss what she said. I just don't think it's shit-on-ones-grave level of atrociousness.
__________________
For Science!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 09-08-2014, 02:45 AM
Dingfod's Avatar
Dingfod Dingfod is offline
Gone Guy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In a Hole
Gender: Male
Posts: XLMMDCLIII
Blog Entries: 21
Images: 92
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

I agree, I reserve the monster for those that commit atrocities. But supporting killing innocent people, including children, is pretty despicable in itself.
__________________
Sleep - the most beautiful experience in life - except drink.--W.C. Fields
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
erimir (09-08-2014), Janet (09-09-2014), Kael (09-08-2014)
  #92  
Old 09-08-2014, 02:55 AM
Kael's Avatar
Kael Kael is offline
the internet says I'm right
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCDXLIV
Blog Entries: 11
Images: 23
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Right. We can definitely put her on the list of celebrities with inexplicably valued opinions who have said terrible things about Palestinians.
__________________
For Science!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
erimir (09-08-2014), Janet (09-09-2014)
  #93  
Old 09-08-2014, 03:30 AM
Dingfod's Avatar
Dingfod Dingfod is offline
Gone Guy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In a Hole
Gender: Male
Posts: XLMMDCLIII
Blog Entries: 21
Images: 92
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Even the liberal darling Senator Elizabeth Warren said she supported Israel's right to defend itself when asked about the current conflict. She didn't say Palestinians deserved to die though. But, to me, statements of support during actions like Israel has taken seem to be condoning it.
__________________
Sleep - the most beautiful experience in life - except drink.--W.C. Fields
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
chunksmediocrites (09-08-2014)
  #94  
Old 09-08-2014, 03:48 AM
Kael's Avatar
Kael Kael is offline
the internet says I'm right
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCDXLIV
Blog Entries: 11
Images: 23
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Yeah, I'm actually a lot more bothered by Warren's remarks than Rivers's, seeing as one is a TV personality and the other has a voice in policy-making…
__________________
For Science!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
chunksmediocrites (09-08-2014), erimir (09-08-2014), Janet (09-09-2014), JoeP (09-08-2014), The Man (09-08-2014), viscousmemories (09-08-2014)
  #95  
Old 09-08-2014, 04:33 AM
The Man's Avatar
The Man The Man is offline
Oh, brilliant.
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sarasota, FL
Gender: Bender
Posts: MVDXCVI
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

here, maybe this article will satisfy everyone:

After Hours: Can we talk? The unruly life and legacy of Joan Rivers
__________________


“All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.” -Adam Smith

Fool’s Gold · last.fm · soundcloud · Marathon Chronicles
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
chunksmediocrites (09-08-2014), Dingfod (09-08-2014), erimir (09-08-2014), Janet (09-09-2014), slimshady2357 (09-08-2014), vremya (09-08-2014)
  #96  
Old 09-08-2014, 05:03 AM
Dingfod's Avatar
Dingfod Dingfod is offline
Gone Guy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In a Hole
Gender: Male
Posts: XLMMDCLIII
Blog Entries: 21
Images: 92
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Hmmm. In the article, Geier says she was great and a monster. I had forgotten the horrible fat-bashing she did on Lena Dunham. Yeah, she was great, at being horrible.
__________________
Sleep - the most beautiful experience in life - except drink.--W.C. Fields
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Janet (09-09-2014), mickthinks (09-08-2014)
  #97  
Old 09-08-2014, 06:14 AM
Anastasia Beaverhausen's Avatar
Anastasia Beaverhausen Anastasia Beaverhausen is offline
Vaginally-privileged sociopathic cultist
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: La Mer
Gender: Female
Posts: MXDCLXXXIV
Blog Entries: 2
Images: 1
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Adele, too.
__________________
:hellokit:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Dingfod (09-08-2014)
  #98  
Old 09-08-2014, 06:46 PM
erimir's Avatar
erimir erimir is online now
Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
Posts: XMMDCCCIX
Images: 11
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man View Post
here, maybe this article will satisfy everyone:

After Hours: Can we talk? The unruly life and legacy of Joan Rivers
Yeah, to be clear, I don't think Joan Rivers was great. I'm not particularly sad at her death.

There were plenty of reasons to dislike her.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Janet (09-09-2014)
  #99  
Old 09-09-2014, 07:47 PM
Janet's Avatar
Janet Janet is offline
Bizarre unknowable space alien
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flint, MI
Posts: VXLIX
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

Yeah, as a fat woman I've never been a fan. I was always very uncomfortable that she made fat jokes about herself when she was not fat by any normal measure. I try to be understanding that it might just be other people's body issues, but that understanding came years later. Her words had already made their mark by then.
__________________
"freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order."
- Justice Robert Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Ed. v. Barnette
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (09-09-2014)
  #100  
Old 09-09-2014, 07:59 PM
Sock Puppet's Avatar
Sock Puppet Sock Puppet is offline
Awaiting public amnesia to expurgate the immediacy of my sins
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Down by the Bay
Posts: XMMMDCCX
Blog Entries: 7
Images: 120
Default Re: BREAKING: Sometimes Famous People Die

I don't remember her making fat jokes about herself. I do remember her devoting a large portion of an act to fat jokes about Liz Taylor. Even at the time, being not at all informed about body issues, I thought it was mean-spirited, unnecessary, and not at all funny.

She could be funny at times, but just about everything she did in stand-up, Phyllis Diller did better.
__________________
:sockpuppet:...........
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (09-09-2014), Dingfod (09-09-2014), Janet (09-09-2014), LadyShea (09-12-2014), SharonDee (09-11-2014)
Reply

  Freethought Forum > The Marketplace > Arts & Literature


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.38091 seconds with 14 queries