what was your reaction to the girl scouts welcoming a boy?

[Jerome]

This could be the parents trying to turn their gay son straight, puberty is coming and he will be in an organization of budding women..

You guys OK if this is the purpose of the parents?

[thedoc]

It will be good for those girls to learn to sell something other than cookies.

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

This could be the parents trying to turn their gay son straight, puberty is coming and he will be in an organization of budding women..

You guys OK if this is the purpose of the parents?

Of course not. It seems pretty unlikely, though, that a kid that age (she's seven) would already self-identify as gay, and that the parents would think that having 'him' publicly identify as a girl would be some way to get their--again, seven year old--child exclusive access to the ladies in order to tempt him.

I think the simplest explanation is that she's actually transgendered, and that her parents and the Girl Scouts are respecting that.

[Jerome]

Should we test gender like they do in the olympics, where is the line?

[lisarea]

Nope. That's exactly the opposite of what to do. You believe people when they tell you their gender.

[Jerome]

How does a seven year old determine his/her gender?

[livius drusus]

Were you unclear on that when you were seven? Because I was pretty sure I was a girl.

[Ari]

The same way every other 7 year old determines their gender, it's forced on to them through society. For some it doesn't feel right, and for fewer they have the gonadial fortitude to stand up and say they feel different.

Too many adults get gender and puberty mixed up and assume that children don't have 'real' genders, yet oddly still feel the need to lump them into one group or the other.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

Were you unclear on that when you were seven? Because I was pretty sure I was a girl.

I don't honestly know if I consciously knew my gender at 7.

[livius drusus]

I find that difficult to believe.

[Angakuk]

More difficult to believe than most of his B.S.?

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

I find that difficult to believe.

How should one, i can hardly remember events at the age of seven, much less complex ideas there.

[Doctor X]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

Were you unclear on that when you were seven? Because I was pretty sure I was a girl.

So was I . . .

--J.D.

[Doctor X]

NO WAIT!!

--J.D.

[Ari]

Not only do most kids know their gender at 7, but many already have gender role stereotypes.
As seen by this teacher dealing with gender in her 1st grade class.

One teacher’s approach to preventing gender bullying in a classroom

Allison was biologically a girl but felt more comfortable wearing Tony Hawk long-sleeved T-shirts, baggy jeans, and black tennis shoes. Her parents were accepting and supportive. Her mother braided her hair in cornrows because Allie thought it made her look like Will Smith’s son, Trey, in the remake of The Karate Kid. She preferred to be called Allie. The first day of school, children who hadn’t been in Allie’s class in kindergarten referred to her as “he.”

I didn’t want to assume I knew how Allie wanted me to respond to the continual gender mistakes, so I made a phone call home and Allie’s mom put me on speakerphone.

“Allie,” she said, “Ms. Melissa is on the phone. She would like to know if you want her to correct your classmates when they say you are a boy, or if you would rather that she just doesn’t say anything.”

Allie was shy on the phone. “Um …

tell them that I am a girl,” she whispered.

The next day when I corrected classmates and told them that Allie was a girl, they asked her a lot of questions that she wasn’t prepared for: “Why do you look like a boy?” “If you’re a girl, why do you always wear boys’ clothes?” Some even told her that she wasn’t supposed to wear boys’ clothes if she was a girl. It became evident that I would have to address gender directly in order to make the classroom environment more comfortable for Allie and to squash the gender stereotypes that my 1st graders had absorbed in their short lives.

[davidm]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

How should one, i can hardly remember events at the age of seven, much less complex ideas there.

You can hardly remember events at your current age, much less complex ideas here.

[LadyShea]

My 6 year old knows he's a boy

[Jerome]

Has society stereotyped his gender?

[lisarea]

The fact that there are a lot of artificial constructs and stereotypes surrounding gender does not mean that gender itself is an artifice. People can and do identify pretty strongly by gender, which doesn't always align completely with their actual or apparent biological sex.

Most of us have probably been lucky enough to consistently identify our gender as the one that aligns with our biological sex, but that doesn't mean our experiences are universal.

What harm can come from letting a seven year old who says she's a girl join the Girl Scouts?

[Doctor X]

Originally Posted by lisarea

What harm can come from letting a seven year old who says she's a girl join the Girl Scouts?

DIDN'T YOU READ BOUT THE almost dangerous results THAT COULD HAPPEN TO CHILDREN?!!1!!




I will pray for you. . . .

--J.D.

[lisarea]

True, I did hear somewhere that it would teach girls to "sell something other than cookies," which I am p. worried about.

[LadyShea]

I think there is a lot of societal gender pressure as far as boys things and girls things. And manufacturers play into them...Lego's new lines for girls pisses me off for example. But I don't think that's what makes my son self identify as a boy.

[seebs]

Originally Posted by lisarea

What harm can come from letting a seven year old who says she's a girl join the Girl Scouts?

It can lead to a bigoted asshole girl scout making herself look like a bigoted asshole. That's bad, right?

I think it's funny that the thread title presupposes that the girl is wrong about her identity.

[Doctor X]

Since I have just enjoyed MY NEW ESPRESSO MAKER AND NO I AM NOT WIRED BUT I PLAN TO DRUM THIS IN A FEW MOMENTS:

genesis- dukes travels - YouTube

let me take this seriously for a moment. "What the fuck is the issue?"

Leave aside the fear-mongering "THE CHILDREN" appeal--more children are harmed every day listening to John Parr revamping his FAIL of a song to [CENSORED--Ed.] His Lord and Savior St. Timothy of Teblow--what harm occurs?

I will tell you what The Problem [Tm--Ed.] is--and it does not involve YOUR M[Get on with it.--Ed.]

Bigots fear evidence that overturns their prejudice.

Cannot educate black people--might be like us. That was actually similar to an argument used by Southerners--if you abolish slavery, screeched John "Redneck Racist from Central Casting" C. Calhoun, then the blacks may actually supplant white people in the South

Cannot let them serve in the military--might prove them competent.

Cannot let them marry us--might prove they are the same.

Cannot allow a different religious/philisophical opinion--it may have merit--and, worse--ours may not? :fear:

Cannot allow gays to be "normal." Cannot allow a normal variant of humanity. For what is the point of bigotry if you cannot lie to yourself that you are inherently better than all others despite the horridly clear evidence to the contrary?

--J.D.

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by seebs

It can lead to a bigoted asshole girl scout making herself look like a bigoted asshole. That's bad, right?

The kid in the video did sound like a dick, but to be fair, apparently he's only fourteen, and it did sound pretty rehearsed, so maybe his parents put him up to it.

I think it's funny that the thread title presupposes that the girl is wrong about her identity.

Yeah, Miss Shelby is too old to get a parental pass for his dickishness on the subject.