#50976  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:22 AM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMVCDXXXII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You could teach bullshit 101. That's why I must find a new forum. I can no longer deal with the likes of you and your delusions with nothing to stop you!
Ciao, peacegirl :wave: See you at the next forum.
I'm telling you right now, you will be banned in a moderated forum. You will have to change your ways so drastically that I don't think you will be able to.
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #50977  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:25 AM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XXCDXXXVIII
Images: 2
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You could teach bullshit 101. That's why I must find a new forum. I can no longer deal with the likes of you and your delusions with nothing to stop you!
Ciao, peacegirl :wave: See you at the next forum.
I'm telling you right now, you will be banned in a moderated forum. You will have to change your ways so drastically that I don't think you will be able to.
Let's find out! See you there :wave: Should I be ChuckF or someone else? Your call.

By the way, peacegirl, have you ever been banned from a moderated forum? Just curious!
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-01-2017), But (05-02-2017), The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50978  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:28 AM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMVCDXXXII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You could teach bullshit 101. That's why I must find a new forum. I can no longer deal with the likes of you and your delusions with nothing to stop you!
Ciao, peacegirl :wave: See you at the next forum.
I'm telling you right now, you will be banned in a moderated forum. You will have to change your ways so drastically that I don't think you will be able to.
Let's find out! See you there :wave: Should I be ChuckF or someone else? Your call.
.

I could care less chuck. One thing is for sure: your shenanigans will not be tolerated, and as a result you may actually learn something!
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #50979  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:30 AM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XXCDXXXVIII
Images: 2
Default Re: A revolution in thought

peacegirl, I am compelled of my own free will to bring the Authentic Text to a world in need!

If it's all the same to you maybe I'll come up with a new character at our forum. I already have a few ideas. I can't wait :eager:

Because I mean it's definitely not like you're just lying again and will never actually leave here, amirite. lol of course it is.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-01-2017), The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50980  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:34 AM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMVCDXXXII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You could teach bullshit 101. That's why I must find a new forum. I can no longer deal with the likes of you and your delusions with nothing to stop you!
Ciao, peacegirl :wave: See you at the next forum.
I'm telling you right now, you will be banned in a moderated forum. You will have to change your ways so drastically that I don't think you will be able to.
Let's find out! See you there :wave: Should I be ChuckF or someone else? Your call.
I could care less chuck. Stop playing with me. One thing is for sure: your shenanigans will not be tolerated in a moderated forum. As a result, you may actually learn something!
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #50981  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:36 AM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMVCDXXXII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
peacegirl, I am compelled of my own free will to bring the Authentic Text to a world in need!

If it's all the same to you maybe I'll come up with a new character at our forum. I already have a few ideas. I can't wait :eager:

Because I mean it's definitely not like you're just lying again and will never actually leave here, amirite. lol of course it is.
You continue to humor me, but I will get the last laugh. You just wait and see. :wink:
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #50982  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:38 AM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XXCDXXXVIII
Images: 2
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
I could care less chuck. Stop playing with me.
:chin: No thanks, peacegirl. I reject your advance blame. I'll continue to post whatever I want.

You could always just use the ignore feature and ignore me, like you've lied about doing so many times.

But I know you can't do that, peacegirl. You can't do that any more than you could leave here. That - together with your general slowness and apparently constant desire to advertise every single button you have that can be pushed - make this the most satisfying extended troll I have enjoyed in a very long time.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-01-2017), But (05-02-2017), The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50983  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:51 AM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMVCDXXXII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
I could care less chuck. Stop playing with me.
:chin: No thanks, peacegirl. I reject your advance blame. I'll continue to post whatever I want.
Here maybe, but not where Im going. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
You could always just use the ignore feature and ignore me, like you've lied about doing so many times.
No, the ignore function doesn't help. I still see your nasty posts when I'm not yet signed in. I can't get away from you here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
But I know you can't do that, peacegirl. You can't do that any more than you could leave here. That - together with your general slowness and apparently constant desire to advertise every single button you have that can be pushed - make this the most satisfying extended troll I have enjoyed in a very long time.
I know you want to believe I can't leave, but you will see that I can when the time is right. I know how much you will miss me. Could this be love? :giggle:

I think I love you by the Partridge Family with lyrics - YouTube
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #50984  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:55 AM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XXCDXXXVIII
Images: 2
Default Re: A revolution in thought

If you say so, peacegirl. But before you leave :ff: forever again (that's two or three times just today, I think!), considering hanging around until July 24, which is True Stewardship Day. I am working on a special surprise for the first anniversary of the realization that I am The True Steward of the Authentic Text! I hope it will come together. :crossed:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-01-2017), Stephen Maturin (05-01-2017), The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50985  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:02 AM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMVCDXXXII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
If you say so, peacegirl. But before you leave :ff: forever again (that's two or three times just today, I think!), considering hanging around until July 24, which is True Stewardship Day. I am working on a special surprise for the first anniversary of the realization that I am The True Steward of the Authentic Text! I hope it will come together. :crossed:
Thanks for the invite, but I will make sure NOT to be here on that day as it will no doubt be another one of your shenanigans! :yawn:
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #50986  
Old 05-01-2017, 04:00 AM
thedoc's Avatar
thedoc thedoc is offline
I'm Deplorable.
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: XMMCCCXCVI
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
By the way, peacegirl, have you ever been banned from a moderated forum? Just curious!
I'm not sure about Peacegirl being banned from a forum, but there have been several where the thread was locked and Peacegirl just left when there was no place to post her nonsense. There was also one forum where members started agreeing with Peacegirl, and she left because she wasn't getting the abuse.
__________________
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don’t know anything about. Wayne Dyer
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-01-2017), The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50987  
Old 05-01-2017, 04:07 AM
thedoc's Avatar
thedoc thedoc is offline
I'm Deplorable.
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: XMMCCCXCVI
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Here maybe, but not where I'm going.
Where could you go where the members would not immediately turn on you?
__________________
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don’t know anything about. Wayne Dyer
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-01-2017)
  #50988  
Old 05-01-2017, 04:14 AM
The Lone Ranger's Avatar
The Lone Ranger The Lone Ranger is offline
Jin, Gi, Rei, Ko, Chi, Shin, Tei
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: MXDXCIX
Images: 523
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl -- ad nauseum:
I could care less ...
Could you at least learn basic English?

The phrase you're searching for is "I couldn't care less". You're literally saying the opposite of what you think you mean.
__________________
“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.”
-- Socrates
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-01-2017), But (05-02-2017), The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50989  
Old 05-01-2017, 04:38 AM
Angakuk's Avatar
Angakuk Angakuk is offline
NeoTillichian Hierophant & Partisan Hack
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa
Gender: Male
Posts: MXCCCLXXXIII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

I'm sure she does mean that she could not care less, but the truth is that she does care so "I could care less" is accidentally appropriate.
__________________
Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful. :shakebible:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
The Lone Ranger (05-01-2017), The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50990  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:08 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMVCDXXXII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You could teach bullshit 101. That's why I must find a new forum. I can no longer deal with the likes of you and your delusions with nothing to stop you!
Ciao, peacegirl :wave: See you at the next forum.
I'm telling you right now, you will be banned in a moderated forum. You will have to change your ways so drastically that I don't think you will be able to.
Let's find out! See you there :wave: Should I be ChuckF or someone else? Your call.

By the way, peacegirl, have you ever been banned from a moderated forum? Just curious!
I would know who you are and I guarantee the mockery would end. You're going to have to work to find me. I would never give anyone (especially you) the website address.
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #50991  
Old 05-01-2017, 12:10 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMVCDXXXII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl -- ad nauseum:
I could care less ...
Could you at least learn basic English?

The phrase you're searching for is "I couldn't care less". You're literally saying the opposite of what you think you mean.
Why "I could care less" is not as irrational or ungrammatical as you might think.
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #50992  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:19 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XXCDXXXVIII
Images: 2
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
I would know who you are and I guarantee the mockery would end.
One way to find out - game on!
Quote:
You're going to have to work to find me. I would never give anyone (especially you) the website address.
:giggle: Ok, hawk your $41.00 Corrupted Text in secret.

All of this, just because you hate what your father wrote in the Authentic Text published in his lifetime. :sad:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-02-2017), The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50993  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:33 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMVCDXXXII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
I would know who you are and I guarantee the mockery would end.
One way to find out - game on!
Quote:
You're going to have to work to find me. I would never give anyone (especially you) the website address.
:giggle: Ok, hawk your $41.00 Corrupted Text in secret.

All of this, just because you hate what your father wrote in the Authentic Text published in his lifetime. :sad:

You can keep up with the charade as long as you want, but you would never be tolerated in any other intelligent forum. The moderators would delete your posts so fast you wouldn't know what hit you. :laugh:
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #50994  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:53 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XXCDXXXVIII
Images: 2
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You can keep up with the charade as long as you want,
I know!
Quote:
but you would never be tolerated in any other intelligent forum.
peacegirl, just because you hate and fear the Authentic Text does not mean that all thinking people reject it as you do!
Quote:
The moderators would delete your posts so fast you wouldn't know what hit you. :laugh:
Would they delete them like a glandular homo-sexual, or like the reason that 98% of homo-sexual intercourse comes into existence? I'm just thinking in terms of things you deleted when you were Corrupting the Authentic Text.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
But (05-02-2017), Stephen Maturin (05-01-2017), The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50995  
Old 05-01-2017, 02:09 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMVCDXXXII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You can keep up with the charade as long as you want,
I know!
Quote:
but you would never be tolerated in any other intelligent forum.
peacegirl, just because you hate and fear the Authentic Text does not mean that all thinking people reject it as you do!
Quote:
The moderators would delete your posts so fast you wouldn't know what hit you. :laugh:
Would they delete them like a glandular homo-sexual, or like the reason that 98% of homo-sexual intercourse comes into existence? I'm just thinking in terms of things you deleted when you were Corrupting the Authentic Text.
They would see what you're trying to do, which is to turn a revolutionary work (that you have no understanding of) into something it's not just so you can be entertained. The comment he made about homosexuality was accurate in that the changes in the environment that may have caused one to become gay, will no longer be. This was not a statement about morality. It would not matter if he was wrong about this observation. But you, like others, are trying to take things out of context, which is why I took that one comment out. You cannot let it rest because this would ruin all your fun.
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
ChuckF (05-01-2017)
  #50996  
Old 05-01-2017, 02:21 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XXCDXXXVIII
Images: 2
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
They would see what you're trying to do, which is to turn a revolutionary work (that you have no understanding of) into something it's not just so you can be entertained.
peacegirl, what if they saw what you have done - turned a revolutionary work (that you have no understanding of) into a Corrupted Text just so you can hawk it for lucre online at $41.00 a pop?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
The comment he made about homosexuality was accurate in that the changes in the environment that may have caused one to become gay, will no longer be.
:foocl: It is not quite as good as proof by dog eyes but it is pretty close.

In any new forum I would definitely demand a thorough investigation of the Authentic Text's tripartite classification of homo-sexuals: glandular, environmental, and inherited.
Quote:
I took that one comment out.
:sadnod: I know, peacegirl - you censored the Authentic Text. You did not even let the reader decide. You did not even give the Author a chance to defend himself. peacegirl, you Corrupted the Authentic Text.

Last edited by ChuckF; 05-01-2017 at 02:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
But (05-02-2017), Stephen Maturin (05-01-2017), The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50997  
Old 05-01-2017, 02:34 PM
Vivisectus's Avatar
Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
Astroid the Foine Loine between a Poirate and a Farrrmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMCCCLVI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
It would not matter if he was wrong about this observation.
Hang on - but his observations are Astute, are they not? And an Astute Observation is a statement that requires nothing to support it's credibility. Its very Astuteness simply convinces us that it is correct.

Or were only some of his Observations Astute? And how can we tell which ones are and which are not? We would need some way of judging the veracity of the statements, to determine which Observations are Astute and which are not.

And if his Observations are all Astute, then there can be no question about this observation being wrong.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
But (05-02-2017), ChuckF (05-01-2017), Stephen Maturin (05-01-2017), The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50998  
Old 05-01-2017, 02:54 PM
The Lone Ranger's Avatar
The Lone Ranger The Lone Ranger is offline
Jin, Gi, Rei, Ko, Chi, Shin, Tei
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: MXDXCIX
Images: 523
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl -- ad nauseum:
I could care less ...
Could you at least learn basic English?

The phrase you're searching for is "I couldn't care less". You're literally saying the opposite of what you think you mean.
Why "I could care less" is not as irrational or ungrammatical as you might think.
You were not being sarcastic, as you're perfectly aware.
__________________
“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.”
-- Socrates
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
The Man (05-01-2017)
  #50999  
Old 05-01-2017, 03:13 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMVCDXXXII
Default Re: A revolution in thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl -- ad nauseum:
I could care less ...
Could you at least learn basic English?

The phrase you're searching for is "I couldn't care less". You're literally saying the opposite of what you think you mean.
Why "I could care less" is not as irrational or ungrammatical as you might think.
You were not being sarcastic, as you're perfectly aware.
Whatever! This is off topic, which again, is part of th MO in here.
__________________
https://www.declineandfallofallevil....3-CHAPTERS.pdf

https://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/ebook/


"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #51000  
Old 05-01-2017, 03:32 PM
The Lone Ranger's Avatar
The Lone Ranger The Lone Ranger is offline
Jin, Gi, Rei, Ko, Chi, Shin, Tei
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: MXDXCIX
Images: 523
Default Re: A revolution in thought

My apologies. How silly of me to think that clear and accurate communication might have been a goal of yours.
__________________
“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.”
-- Socrates
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
The Man (05-01-2017)
Reply

  Freethought Forum > The Marketplace > Philosophy


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.52801 seconds with 16 queries