I think it was a false choice. That was a super-retarded, everyone-is-possessed peace where someone gets to gnosh on humans indefinitely. That's no kind of upside. Angel shouldn't have even gotten drawn into that argument!
Even if it wasn't generally known, I would think Joss must have at least suspected. In any case, I love Illyria far more than I tolerated Fred, so from my perspective there was no shark-jumping at all in the last season.
Even if it wasn't generally known, I would think Joss must have at least suspected. In any case, I love Illyria far more than I tolerated Fred, so from my perspective there was no shark-jumping at all in the last season.
The was too good to jump the shark. Had the show gotten more seasons it still would not have shark jumped.
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Allan Glenn. 1984-2005 RIP
Under no circumstances should Quentin Tarantino be allowed to befoul Star Trek.
I'm planning to start on the complete Firefly series and Serenity movie this afternoon.
Send for help if I take too long to resurface for air.
You are going to enjoy the hell out of them!
I don't remember if you are hard of hearing, but the first time through I had to use either headphones or subtitles to catch all the nuances. The language is pretty weird when you're not used to it yet.
No kidding! I'm not hard of hearing, but I see what you mean about the language. It took me about 3 episodes before I figured out they were cussing in some Asian sounding language (and that I shouldn't bother trying to hear it 'cuz I wouldn't understand anyway.)
What an awesome show! I'm currently in the middle of the one where Malcolm gets hitched without knowing it.
Ok, just had to look up "jumping the shark". Learning something every day.
I think the show ended before it came to that point, though I would say that it probably ended in the right place. Boreanaz had been playing a supposedly non-aging being for 8 years by then, and there is only so far you can go with that before even fans have a hard time suspending disbelief. Plus, I don't think all the cast members were all that motivated any more. The show lived a full life, and although I would gladly have seen more, I do fear it might have started waning soon.
I wish it could've lasted another season. I felt there were too many loose ends, but I do agree that David Boreanaz playing a character who doesn't age wasn't working. He changed a lot from his first season of Buffy.
I could have lived with one final two hour movie or episode bringing back all the characters from the Buffyverse to resolve any oustanding issues, and particularly settle the ending of Angel. I realise that Sarah Michelle Geller was probably unwilling to reprise Buffy, but since she had virtually been written out of the Buffyverse during the final season of Angel anyway, I am not sure it would have mattered all that much.
Besides, Eliza Dushku as Faith would have been a great replacement, and there were plenty of other slayers around to fill in the gaps. Given that very few of the players in either series would have actually drowning in work at the time, I would imagine that most, if not all of them could have been gathered together for a curtain call.
But I suppose Whedon's message (and, yes, I am projecting here) was that evil can never be defeated, and that both finales had a "the fight against evil will never be over" finish.
Because of this thread and laughing at Miisa's signature quotes, I have suddenly found myself watching and recording Angel and Buffy. However, on Sky, they are both shown on various channels, so I was hopping between series and getting a bit confunded.
So, I you all for me having to get Angel, season 1 on DVD.
Oh, and vm, I watched "Smiletime" last night, so I totally love your avatar at the moment.
I watched Serenity on Sunday because HBO happened to be playing it. Gods, that is some great writing! Of course, I skipped the post-landing death of you-know-who because it saddens me and pisses me off at the same time.
So, I you all for me having to get Angel, season 1 on DVD.
Good onya, Lees!
I just finished season 5 of BtVS today, but amazon only two hours ago got around to sending seasons 6 and 7 that I ordered a week ago, so I am a little at a loss of what to do at work tomorrow. I am in the middle of season 3 of Angel together with my hubby, so I don't want to mess that up. One option is revisiting Firefly or perhaps picking up Lost where I left off.
I watched Serenity on Sunday because HBO happened to be playing it. Gods, that is some great writing! Of course, I skipped the post-landing death of you-know-who because it saddens me and pisses me off at the same time.
The only possibly positive thing about that is how we get to see Gina Torres do her amazing tough soldier bit. Between her ultra-super-spy character on Alias and her Zoe, I don't know if I can see her as anything but!
Even if it wasn't generally known, I would think Joss must have at least suspected. In any case, I love Illyria far more than I tolerated Fred, so from my perspective there was no shark-jumping at all in the last season.
I think Illyria was an extension of two runs at a Demon-Willow in BTVS; the first, her dimensional doppelganger, was played mostly for laughs. The second, Dark Willow, was sexier and scarier, and showed signs of being intriguing, but was too pissed off to be interestingly characterized. I think JW had toyed with the idea of the nerdy innocent rapidly replaced by the all-powerful amoral vixen a few times, and really perfected it with Fred-cum-Illyria. (Yes, I said "cum".) My biggest disappointment with the end of the series was not seeing her character and her relationship with Wes develop any further.
Having seen all of Angel before Buffy, I saw distinct similarities between Illyria and a couple of things in Buffy. First there was the "superslayer" Buffy turned in to at the end of season 4 (and who then killed the Adam/Frankenstein thing) and then Glory from season 5. (Haven't done 6 & 7 yet, so there may be more, with the above-mentioned Willow thing amongst them).
I don't think the superslayer was as convincing as Illyria, though, her eyes didn't stay fixed, but rather fluttered in a nervous-looking way, which detracted from the superpower image.
I think JW had toyed with the idea of the nerdy innocent rapidly replaced by the all-powerful amoral vixen a few times, and really perfected it with Fred-cum-Illyria.
I agree completely. Doppleganger was one of my favorite episodes, the angry-Willow story arc was my favorite of BTVS and the Illyria was my favorite story arc in Angel.
the first, her dimensional doppelganger, was played mostly for laughs
I disagree. Strongly. The episode had laughs, for sure, but Vampire Willow no more so than the other characters. In fact that character had some deep pathos. For a being dedicated to death, destruction and the pursuit of happiness, she wasn't very happy.
Joe, I don't think "Bored now" indicates deep pathos. But if you don't like "mostly" on its own, I'll settle for "to a far greater extent than Dark Willow".
Anyhow, Illyria was a brilliant extension of the pattern.
Adam was ok, I disliked the inishitive and felt it was overall pretty corny (and not in a funny way like the nerd trio) and seemed to pop out of nowhere in the show (even though in Angel we are told that not only is it a reasonably old government op but that two main buffy characters knew about it, but failed to say anything).
Can anyone elaborate on this? I can't remember any mention in Angel of the Initiative, but I might not have reacted if I hadn't seen that particular episode since seeing BtVS season 4 quite recently (now in season 6).
OMG, I adore the nerd trio! I am enough of a spoiler slut to know they will come to a sticky end, but so far I they are super!
Re: Joss Whedon is God
Re: Joss Whedon is God
I'm planning to start on the complete Firefly series and Serenity movie this afternoon. 
You are going to enjoy the hell out of them!
you all for me having to get Angel, season 1 on DVD. 
Vampire Willow was so much hotter than Dark Willow. (Oh geez, now I feel just like Andrew - except I'm talking about women! err a woman)
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