#476  
Old 01-22-2016, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: DC Nation

Perhaps it's because he's not more developed and needs to be a generic bad guy to push things along, but even then, both Damien and Rajs feel much more evil and sharpened by history than the current paper thin and paper delivered (ok sure fine, you're the generic bad guy, let's camp this up a bit!) version of Savage.

Also agreed, I may have called them Hot & Cold because I had forgotten Heatwave's name but I'm way more interested to see what he has in store than Ollie and his constant battle to save himself and his city, which is only a thinly veiled representation of Ollie. Er sorry, Green Arrow. Which should be read with as much snark as possible from someone who often uses Blue in their gamer tags.

Edit to add: After rewatching, I like snarky asshole Gideon. "There's another problem, would you like to hear about it?" ...problem walks in the door.

Last edited by Ari; 01-23-2016 at 05:37 AM.
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  #477  
Old 01-29-2016, 11:44 PM
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Cartoon Network just announced a new Justice League series featuring Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill. SQUEEEEEEEEE! :omgomg::mlpomg::eager:
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  #478  
Old 02-11-2016, 04:38 AM
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Default Re: DC Nation

Woah, the flash's Mirror Mirror was awesome!
Zoom remains a scary bad guy.
And they confirmed a supergirl cross over, I'm assuming she's going to be part of an earth-3 or some such given the Flash hasn't acknowledged any alien life.
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  #479  
Old 02-18-2016, 02:34 PM
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SuperGirl. Thoughts after the mid season finale.
Well I don't dislike it...
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  #480  
Old 02-18-2016, 04:56 PM
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(growing up without Kira's help)
:frysees:
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  #481  
Old 02-22-2016, 03:10 AM
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Despite my stupid thought that this actually looks cute, I know it does not in any way resemble the Vertigo comics or the character as created by Neil Gaiman. And that is terrible.
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I have no idea whatsoever why something like this would be a police procedural. That's about all I have to say. Well, that and he should totally be blond.
Lucifer is just terrible. I mean, I think the acting is okay enough. It's the material. I mean how do you make The Devil boring. I guess boring potato people might find his antics "lascivious" or "perverse" but for us experienced internet people - and people who know the Lucifer Morningstar of Vertigo Neil Gaiman fame, it's just the most wrong way to portray the character.


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The inclusion of actual non-repentant villains though really sticks in my craw.
HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED. Wentworth Miller's Captain Cold really works in this set up. It's a little hammy but it fits.
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  #482  
Old 02-22-2016, 08:14 PM
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Welp. I did it. I've made a clean break from the Arrow.
But...but...Vixen

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  #483  
Old 02-22-2016, 08:56 PM
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I'm still watching Arrow even though I'm not particularly into it. My interest is sort of just limping along, but I'm still keeping up with the storyline. Hopefully Nyssa's part in the plot is mostly done now. I don't mind the character, but the actress is terrible. Also, I've put up with plenty of cartoonish characters, but Damian Dark is pushing my tolerability limits. I mainly watch for Felicity now.

Still watching Flash - speaking of cartoonish villains, apparently King Shark gets his full episode next. At least if you're gonna go over the top, you might as well have fun with it. Still, the show is fun, and the dialogue is at least entertaining enough. I wish the Big Bad weren't named "Zoom" (yes, I saw the episode that explained how the name was OMG Really Dark In Origin, Seriously Guys; the name is still fucking "Zoom," which is still stupid) but it's not a deal-breaker.

As for Legends of Tomorrow, while I love the Snart character, he's not enough to get me to invest my time in another of these silly shows. Also, in a way, he makes me less inclined to give the show a shot, since I know how these breakout characters usually go: they're tons of fun in smaller doses, then the audience (myself included) wants more, and then the show writers do their level best to ruin what appeal they had by leaning too heavily on them. Pass.

As for Supergirl, I didn't give the show a truly fair shake. I saw one complete episode, which was entirely a hamhanded attempt to say, "Look guys, we know Superman isn't in this, but watch anyway, please? Please?" I was ready to accept the show on its own terms. I don't need the screenplay to beg for my viewership in such unseemly, desperate fashion. Really turned me off.
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  #484  
Old 02-22-2016, 09:24 PM
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I wish the Big Bad weren't named "Zoom"
Could be worse. They could have called him "Professor Zoom"
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  #485  
Old 02-23-2016, 06:39 AM
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Default Re: DC Nation

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Welp. I did it. I've made a clean break from the Arrow.
But...but...Vixen
I'm curious but I don't know if that's enough to bring me back.


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I mainly watch for Felicity now.
P much the only tolerable character on the show. Most of the time.


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Still watching Flash - speaking of cartoonish villains, apparently King Shark gets his full episode next. At least if you're gonna go over the top, you might as well have fun with it.
:wriggle: If you're going to be a superhero show, it pays off to be shameless about even the goofier edges. The Flash's rogues can be really gonzo.


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they're tons of fun in smaller doses, then the audience (myself included) wants more, and then the show writers do their level best to ruin what appeal they had by leaning too heavily on them. Pass.
Sock is very smart and I agree with everything he says. I'm still giving it some time to figure out what it's all really about. Right now that Snart is the more interesting component isn't necessarily something for the fan (like me) to crow about.


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I don't need the screenplay to beg for my viewership in such unseemly, desperate fashion. Really turned me off.
This is the show with the most disappotential. I'm still enjoying it for the most part but I can't defend what people don't like about it.


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Quote:
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I wish the Big Bad weren't named "Zoom"
Could be worse. They could have called him "Professor Zoom"
:shiftier:

I keep waiting for someone to actually call him Professor Zoom.
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  #486  
Old 02-23-2016, 11:59 AM
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Default Re: DC Nation

I've enjoyed Legends of tomorrow, everyone except the hawk people are being fleshed out as more dynamic characters and the actors are given some room to play. I quite like that everyone's morals have been skewed. The 'bad guys' are going back for teammates while the 'good guys' are considering taking one out.

I quite agree though, with all my complaining about Supergirl, I'm still watching.
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  #487  
Old 02-23-2016, 03:36 PM
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Legends of Tomorrow: I do enjoy the show, though I don't love Snark's schtick as much as others seem to. It's a little much and I think he suffers from writing that isn't smart enough to make him look really smart, if you know what I mean. I like White Canary and Professor Stein, they are why I keep coming back. I still can't bring myself to like Atom, because there's no real reason for him to be the Atom. Most of the time he's Iron Man. Hawkgirl is okay, I guess. And Heatwave and the other half of Firestorm kinda fade into the background for me. Also....


Supergirl: Can't really add to what was already said. Bort wins for the most apt term ever, "disappotential". Even "For the Girl Who Has Everything" didn't meet its potential, though it came close.

Also, it looks like I'm not the only who doesn't miss Gotham at all.
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  #488  
Old 02-23-2016, 05:08 PM
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I actually still like Gotham. In fact, of all these DC-property shows, it's Mrs. Puppet's favorite, and my second favorite after Flash. Certainly an order of magnitude better than Arrow. I just don't mention it much since y'all are all jaded hipsters who think it's double uncool. Plus the long hiatus means there's nothing more to say about it until it finally restarts.
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  #489  
Old 02-23-2016, 07:34 PM
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I gave up on Gotham and haven't missed it. I never consciously decided to, I just switched to Supergirl when it premiered and never went back. I think Arrow is having a stronger season than The Flash. That said, I'm not particularly invested in either series season long mysteries. Don't care who's in the grave or who Zoom is, to be honest. I preferred it last year when The Flash let the audience know Thawne/Wells was evil early. That might be just me. I don't get engaged in figuring out mysteries. I usually just wait, knowing the author will get around to telling me whodunnit.
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  #490  
Old 02-23-2016, 08:48 PM
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I just don't mention it much since y'all are all jaded hipsters who think it's double uncool.
No worries.

At least we don't discuss Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. in this thrad.
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  #491  
Old 02-23-2016, 10:22 PM
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Am so excite

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  #492  
Old 02-24-2016, 06:25 AM
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:hyper:

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  #493  
Old 02-26-2016, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: DC Nation

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I actually still like Gotham. In fact, of all these DC-property shows, it's Mrs. Puppet's favorite, and my second favorite after Flash. Certainly an order of magnitude better than Arrow. I just don't mention it much since y'all are all jaded hipsters who think it's double uncool. Plus the long hiatus means there's nothing more to say about it until it finally restarts.
The thing to remember about Gotham is it is NOT Batman. Once I forgot everything I knew about Batman &c and let my mind go blank, it wasn't too bad. It is Fox TV afterall. Alfred and Selina are usually interesting despite the lapses of continuity as the actors are doing the best with what they're given, while Robin Lord Taylor's Penguin is such a petulant little psychopath, that "cold emotionless glare" is SO FREAKIN ADORABLE! :squee:

I enjoyed predicting what his character was going to do next lol -- got really good at it by Season 2. Plus Taylor is one the first people committed to my local 2016 ComicCon. Go Cobblepot!


Unlike James Gordon. I just don't know that guy anymore.

Also, there's the whole parallel RL fucked-upedness of Ben McKenzie knocking up Morena Baccarin while she was (and still is) very married to Austin Chick. Not cool.
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  #494  
Old 03-15-2016, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: DC Nation

Say what you will about the many flaws and shortcomings of Supergirl, one of them is certainly not Melissa Benoist, who just kills it in this weeks episode.
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  #495  
Old 03-15-2016, 05:54 PM
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Ari is very smart and I agree with everything he says.

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  #496  
Old 03-17-2016, 07:18 AM
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One little thing I've enjoyed from Melissa Benoist isn't necessarily her Supergirl. I loved when she was Hank Henshaw as Supergirl. And she did a great impersonation of Kara as Kat Grant Jr. Now I'm waiting for the body swap episode where James or Winn gets put in her body (hopefully nothing gross gets intimated) and MB gets to play their parts through her filter. And also, I hope they don't abuse MB's ability to do that either.
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  #497  
Old 03-25-2016, 07:14 PM
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Old 03-26-2016, 04:07 AM
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I didn't want to see Man of Steel 2: Desaturated Boogaloo. I'm not a big fan of the source concept, Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns. Most of DKR is actually good, though. It's the Batman versus Superman part that chaps my hide. Not just because of the old Batman is an asshole part but the casting of Superman as a government stooge too.

There are certainly some good ideas under the hood of BvS. Does the world need a Superman? Does Superman owe it to humanity to intervene? How should Superman decide when and where to use his abilities? But the movie never really explores the answers to those questions. Much like Man of Steel never really explored how the S means Hope before dragging the audience through a near colorless world where there isn't any more hope than before and Superman isn't trying to lead us into a better brighter future.

But then the teaser that showed what Wonder Woman's cameo would be and I knew I'd drag myself to the theater just to experience that. Is the whole movie experience worth that by itself? Oh no. No. Not even a little bit. I could have waited for all those WW bits to leak onto youtube and been completely happy.

If you liked Man of Steel - I mean really liked not just tolerated or didn't outright dislike - you should be just fine with this not-a-sequel. If you tolerated or disliked Man of Steel do yourself a favor and don't see this. It's more of that only bigger and less sensical. The characters and characterizations are worse. The only thing linking these characters with their mainstream DC counterparts are the names. The notable exception being Diana Prince. Gal Gadot and surprisingly the Wonder Woman persona are a breath of fresh air.

As of right now I'm swearing off the other DC movie properties save the Wonder Woman movie. And I'm only giving that a pass because Zach Snyder isn't directing it.

The pacing is all wrong. There's too much for even this two and a half hour slog. And the characters are poorly drawn. Just... just stay home and rewatch Daredevil or Justice League/Unlimited. Oh, or Young Justice. There's rumors around the internet that if enough people watch that, it could get a third or more season(s).
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  #499  
Old 03-26-2016, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: DC Nation

One of these days, no doubt, Zach Snyder is going to make a movie that's in color.


I have a confession: I actually liked Man of Steel when I first saw it. Why? Because it was the first movie (other than Hancock) which made an effort to really show what would happen if super-powered individuals battled in a major metropolis. In short, there would be a huge amount of collateral damage.


But after the initial excitement wears off and you start to actually think about it, Man of Steel quickly becomes more than a little disturbing.



Like:
  • What the Hell is wrong with Jonathan Kent?

  • Do the writers and director have no understanding of who Superman is and what he's about?

  • Why the Hell doesn't Superman seem to give a single damn about all the tens of thousands of people (at least) who must surely have died because of his actions? Dude, did you forget that you can fly? You've mastered your powers; your opponents haven't. Consequently, you are the one who gets to decide where the battle takes place. Take the battle out of Metropolis, for crying out loud!

  • Sure, Supes felt bummed because he had to kill Zod. Good for him. But not once did he express even the teensiest bit of distress over the hundreds of people who must have died in Smallville and the tens of thousands who must have died in Metropolis -- all because he was too stupid/arrogant to consider that maybe, just maybe, it'd be a good idea to take the fight away from the vulnerable, blameless humans.




I recently read that Zach Snyder is a big Ayn Rand fan. If you consider that the movies were directed by someone who presumably holds the philosophy that humans are inherently selfish; that altruism is never real and that belief in altruism is, at best, a sign of immaturity and/or self-delusion; and that humans never truly do good unless directed by superior men who hold themselves above the petty laws and morals that guide the rest of us -- then suddenly, Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman make a lot of sense.



I am so tired of the notion that "mature" equals dark, cynical, and joyless -- that optimism, fun, and altruism are "quaint" and "childish" notions -- that no one is really "good," and that anyone who pretends to be is just hiding their true motivations.



Speaking of motivations, Lex Luthor's behavior and motivations were all over the place. And downright illogical at times. [Wait, he wants to kill Superman, knowing full well that there are even worse things out there that will come for us when Superman is out of the way? Things that we wouldn't stand a chance against?]


Perhaps more to the point, I don't for one second believe this version of Lex Luthor could so effortlessly or effectively manipulate and control the friggin' Batman. (I will say that Afleck was a much better Batman than I thought he'd be ... but that's faint praise indeed.) One thing I never liked about the Dark Knight movies was that they never made any real effort to make Batman seem particularly smart. Aside from a few superficial efforts, neither does Batman v. Superman, really, but at least they made some effort.

No offense to Jesse Eisenberg, but his version of Lex Luthor comes across as being about as frightening and effective a villain as would ... well, Jesse Eisenberg, actually.



Besides, Batman is a total hypocrite in this movie. Sure, he's absolutely correct that it's hypocritical of Superman to criticize Batman for his harsh methods, given that Superman's actions (or lack thereof) led to the deaths of many thousands. But he doesn't have much ground to lecture Supes about the sanctity of life or some such rot when he straight-up murders a whole bunch of dudes during the course of the movie. Sure, they were all bad guys; and sure, Bats was under a serious time constraint and so couldn't afford to mess around. But seriously? That is how he deals with bad guys now? He just straight-up kills them?

Hell, for all the deaths he was indirectly responsible for, Supes didn't deliberately target and kill anyone in Man of Steel. Batman can't say the same in this movie, so it's tremendously hypocritical of him to try to kill Superman because of the people who died due to Superman's [in]actions, and because Supes might go bad in the future.




At several points in the movie, Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman all more or less declare that they have no real faith that humanity is basically decent, much less worth protecting.

Batman outright states that "no one stays good," and uses that to justify trying to kill Superman -- because, sooner or later, Superman will surely go bad.

Superman states, word-for-word, that "no one stays good," and openly wonders whether humanity is worth saving. And it's pretty-much stated outright that if anything bad happens to Lois and/or Martha Kent, the two beings on Earth that Superman actually cares about -- that Superman will abandon any remaining concerns he might have about the future and well-being of humanity.

And Wonder Woman says that she basically gave up on humanity a century ago.





As BrotherMan points, the characters, for the most part, bear no resemblance to their comics counterparts.

In the comics, Superman loves all of humanity, though he's well-aware that some people are bad. Why does he love humanity so? Because he's well-aware that while we often act out of pettiness, jealousy, fear, etc., we're basically decent. Sure, people are often petty, but for every act of cruelty there are a thousand acts of kindness. Consistently, one of the major points of the Superman comics has been that when you get right down to it, most people are really quite decent. And when given a good example to follow, they'll generally do the right thing. That is why Superman tries so hard to be a good role model, why he has such unwavering faith in humanity, and why he loves humanity more than does anyone else.

... Except, perhaps, Wonder Woman, who is literally defined by her love of everyone. If there's anyone who has even greater faith in the notion that humanity is capable of nobility than does Superman, and who loves humanity even more than does Superman, it's Wonder Woman.

... Except, perhaps, Batman. As Amanda Waller once memorably noted, "For all that fierce exterior, I've never met anyone who cared as deeply about his fellow man as Bruce Wayne."




The characters in Batman v. Superman may be called "Batman," "Superman," and "Wonder Woman," but they aren't the characters that I know and love. Not at all. [In fairness, we don't learn enough about Diana to really know her beliefs or motivations.]

And yes, Gal Gadot is easily the best part of the movie, despite Diana's very limited screen time.



With the MCU, Marvel seems to get it: you can make a movie about superheroes that is entertaining and fun to watch. You can make your characters flawed and yet still likable, admirable, and -- dare I say it? -- heroic. You can tackle serious issues without making your movie dark and utterly joyless. "Altruism," "nobility," and "heroism" aren't childish concepts that you must abandon in order to be a "mature" person. A desire to do the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do doesn't make you an idiot. People can be decent -- and usually are.

[That having been said, I have grave misgivings about Civil War, but I'll withhold judgement.]




So anyway, I was not particularly impressed by Batman v. Superman. Not in a good way, anyway.
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Last edited by The Lone Ranger; 03-26-2016 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 03-26-2016, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: DC Nation

I feel like this is a very, very good take on why this film was always destined to be a flaming train wreck. After Snyder outed himself as a Randroid, there was no other possible outcome for the film. It’s not even remotely surprising that a Randroid so thoroughly misunderstands a character who, after all, was created by a couple of committed socialists. (By the way, if you haven’t read Grant Morrison’s Supergods, do so immediately).

In retrospect, this also explains a number of the flaws with the Watchmen film. Moore’s work was, of course, a critique of Objectivism as much as it was a critique of, say, taking utilitarianism or the categorical imperative to the extent of moral absolutism. It doesn’t surprise me that an Objectivist would miss much of this.

The best film adaptation of Moore’s work remains V for Vendetta, which, while it isn’t as explicitly anarchist as the comic, was nonetheless directed by a pair of transgender anarchists. That can’t be a coincidence.

There is one plus to the release of this film: reading the reviews. This remains likely to be the only entertainment I am likely to get from its existence, apart from the pure schadenfreude of watching the flaming toboggan wreck. Here, for example, is Mother Jones’ scathing review. I will definitely not be seeing it unless the MST guys make a RiffTrax of it.
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