Byrqa

[Iftikhar]

MPs in the Netherlands have voted overwhelmingly in favour of a ban on wearing face-covering Islamic veils in some public places, including schools, hospitals, government buildings and on public transport.

The rule – which will outlaw all face coverings including ski-masks and helmets – was approved by 132 members of the 150-seat house. UKIP leader Paul Nuttall says UK should ban Burqa. Dutch lawmakers debate partial ban of burqas and Niqabs. Norway sets out plans for banning Burqa.

What do you expect from a so called civilised nation? West must earn to respect and tolerate those who are different. The problem of extremism we are experiencing is not "mass immigration", immigration has been happening since the dawn of mankind. The problem we are experiencing is a direct result of lack of respect and tolerance substituted by ignorance. The problem we are experiencing is the direct result of poor consciousness and awareness of selective "information" being conveyed to us through various mainstream media sources. There's a new mainstream anti-Muslim racism that is built on fears for the survival of Western values. That's the product of a nervous society in which social betterment is becoming increasingly difficult and in which there is a sense of omnipresent competition and struggle. The emotions generated by this are often not directed at a system, but at those who are different, at foreigners. This is also launched from the political arena and absorbed at grassroots level.

Burqa is not locking women, it is a buffer line between protecting chastity and exposing. Being naked and drunk is acceptable but being covered and modest is inhuman.

Surely nobody should be telling women what they can and can't wear. Face covering? Would that extend to my precious Ray Bans? Why not... apparently face-recognition cameras don't work when confronted by the simple sun glasses. And what about bushy beards and moustaches? And what next... hoods, floppy wide-brimmed hats, anti-pollution masks, scarves? Where does this silliness end? Just for peoples information when security's a concern the women can remove the veil and the few I've spoken to do.. On the grand scale of things how much of an issue is this really? Don't be distracted. Around 0.1% of the UK's Muslim population were a veil.

This is Britain. We are to a large extent 'free' people. Therefore they should be allowed to wear what they want. I am sick of government intervention in ever aspect of everyone's lives! So we make the rules to promote so-called Freedom of Right and then when we come up against an issue we don't know what to do. Typical Britain, where we do not seem to think about many things before we act in the first place. This is just the beginning. As they say when you go to Rome do what the Romans do! But we are not and will never be the Romans either.

When I were a lad I went to Spain. Most of the nuns wore full face veils and they were HUGELY respected for their religious vows. Fast forward to 21st century Britain and we're terrified of Muslim women in veils! Guess what? The media is constantly scaring us against them. Anti Muslim Britain or what? Who's orchestrating it? who keeps wanting to bomb Muslim countries? You know who! Don't hate. How is a women under a sheet a threat?

The government must've gotten it's people paranoid with its propaganda against Islam. I am more scared of my own government and policing in this country then al-Qaeda. al-Qaeda aren't got time for my a...

The UK's National Secular Society came out against a burka ban, saying "the NSS opposes any attempt to legally ban the burka or niqab. We do so on two grounds of principle: a woman's right to choose what she wears, i.e. her right to free expression; and her right to religious freedom."

Secularism is about respecting the right of people to follow any religion equally (or none), and of keeping religion out of politics and politics out of religion. Secularism is a check and balance against fundamentalist excess. Sensible people of faith are, or ought to be, secularists - unless they follow a brand of religion that wants to control everybody.

The question is not about to veil or not to veil but for every woman to have the right to choose. This is question of basic human right including the right to freedom of religion and expression. French administrators have played into people's fears and intolerance without adequately answering what great threat was posed by girls going to school in a headscarves? I do not believe in taking the rights of other people, and doing so shows the weakness of French democracy.

We live in an overly vain culture that is having a detrimental effect upon the mental health of young women. We live in an overly promiscuous society in which abortion rates keep going up along with sexually transmitted diseases. It is a reality that some women may choose to opt out completely of this culture because they find it burdensome and exhausting on the spirit. Modern society is failing women and this has social consequences, no wonder the majority of people turning to Islam in the West are women, and no wonder that many of the women who wear the Niqab are British born converts.

The right to wear a Niqab is in-keeping with people’s freedom of expression which supposedly a modern day Britain seeks to preserve. The right to wear a Niqab is preserved under religious freedoms which supposedly a modern state should seek to uphold if it wants to remain in keeping with the UN charter. If a women believes it to be fore mostly an act of submission and dedication to their God, then I see no argument for a modern Britain to interfere. The niqab does not conflict with principles of feminism if it is a woman's chosen form of dress. A significant aspect of feminism is giving a women the right to choose what she wishes to do with her own body. Many women who wear the niqab regard it as empowering, claiming that those they encounter, give greater value to their speech over their cosmetic appearance. That may seem strange to some people, but is it stranger than nudist beaches, pole dancing clubs or barely clad ladies staggering home in stilettoes after a night out on the tiles? Cultural conditioning and social constructions alone seem an unfair method of determining that which is ‘normal’.

French president wants Muslim women to be topless like his wife who posed topless in fashion shows. He has no right to ban the burqa because it is undemocratic and an unqualified attack on individual freedom. Burqa is not just a piece of cloth but a lot of ideological and cultural connotation to it. Women are just being exploited in the name of rights. Burqa protects women's rights and treat each women like a princess. No one has the right to ban the freedom of choice in a secular and democratic country. The right to choice is a basic fundamental right the person should have.

One Muslim woman, Caroline Chaiima, writing in Lepoint.fr, said she wore a veil: "Let those most closely concerned speak. I am a French woman born in France, with French parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, and I am a Muslim. I wear the full veil and I feel like saying: So what? I am happy behind the veil, I protect myself from depraved stares. Neither my father, nor my brother, nor my husband forced the full veil upon me; it's a personal choice."
Iftikhar Ahmad
London School of Islamics Trust
London School Of Islamics

[Sauron]

Children 'should be taught British values' to keep communities together - Sky News
Children 'should be taught British values' to keep communities together

[Ari]

Damn you xenophobia for making me agree with most of what our local copy pasta xenophobe says!

We live in an overly promiscuous society in which abortion rates keep going up along with sexually transmitted diseases

Here in the US abortion rates, STIs and teen pregnancy are directly linked with fundamentalist views.

French president wants Muslim women to be topless like his wife who posed topless in fashion shows

Ok there we go, I knew it wouldn't take long till I thought you were a twat again. I liked how you feigned women's rights right up until the slut shaming began.

Burqa protects women's rights and treat each women like a princess.

Eww, now you're just getting slimy. I'm reminded of the many new age 'gurus' who extol women as goddesses to draw them in to rape them.

[ceptimus]

Double standards as usual. Insist that western women cover up when they visit Muslim countries, but don't accept that Muslim women should uncover so as to fit in when visiting or living in secular countries.

[Stormlight]

Originally Posted by Ari

Ok there we go, I knew it wouldn't take long till I thought you were a twat again. I liked how you feigned women's rights right up until the slut shaming began.

Apart from the fact that the French President doesn't have a wife. Anyway, I'm pretty sure Iftikhar will show evidence that François Hollande wants Muslim women to be topless. Any minute now.

[ceptimus]

[Iftikhar]

Originally Posted by Sauron

Children 'should be taught British values' to keep communities together - Sky News
Children 'should be taught British values' to keep communities together

Muslim schools teach Muslim children that sex outside marriage is a sin. Homosexuality is also a sin. Sex before marriage and homosexuality are western values and Muslims are not supposed to adopt them.

British values, which are said to include respect for legally protected characteristics such as homosexuality, religion, gender change, disability, race and marital status. what a warping of British values, the British values I was taught are respect for the institution of marriage, freedom of religious pursuit, freedom of speech, respect for the monarch. respect for others.

Until we change our attitude towards victims of sexual abuse we will continue to have these scandals. This isn't just an issue in Rotherham or the UK for that matter. Globally, we have seen repeated failures of authorities who did not believe the victims of sex crimes. Unfortunately, various groups - including atheists and Christians - have used the misogyny of Islam to justify perpetuating their own misogyny. Apparently Western misogyny doesn't need to be addressed because Muslim misogyny is worse. Misogyny is not unique to Islam or the Middle East. It wasn't until the 20th century that Christians began to abhor family violence. The current Australian PM is on record as saying his daughter's greatest gift to give is their virginity.

British culture. Watch BBC News about Rolf Harris and his evil deeds for the last 50 years. Muslims feel ashamed of British culture and it values.


A couple of Pakistanis have adopted the British values of grooming young children. They are the product of the British schooling with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. I have been doing Jihad in the field of education for the last 40 years so that each and every Muslim child should be in a state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. I would like to see Muslim children developing Cultural, linguistic and spiritual identities so that they could keep themselves away from western barbarity of anti-social behaviour, binge drinking, drug addiction, teen age pregnancies and abortion and lot of other evils but people like you do not want to see Muslim children in Muslim schools in the name of integration. Now you have seen the result in the form of sexual grooming of young children which is a common occurrence in your culture.

Promoting or Espousing British Values has all but been outlawed in this country. What he ought to have said was promoting Politically Correct, state Sanctioned British Values which just goes to show that this statement by them is mere propaganda. Ok Mr Gove, I challenge you to tell us what these British values are. For a start, do you mean English? Are they, looking after the sick and elderly, privatising public services, allowing the City who caused the debt we're in, to continue making millions whilst we suffer losing out for past 4 years, that democracy must always prevail when we have a rampant right wing media. Don't talk shit Gove, you wouldn't know a decent value even if the Mail printed it. Telegraph report........Gove became embroiled in the Commons expenses scandal after the Telegraph reported that he had claimed £7,000 to furnish his London home before "flipping" his designated second home to a house in his constituency, Surrey Heath. Are these the British Values he is talking about? It says that schools must promote British values of respect for the law, democracy, equality and tolerance of different faiths and religious and other beliefs. Since the government itself fails to do that, why should schools have to?

What British values? The only values politicians have are greed, nepotism, sleaze and corruption. What a load of BS.... Birmingham council admitted that there is no evidence of extremism in the schools so your just trying to scare people with your crap Mr Gove...Does the man mean British values or the values of Cameron's corrupt junta? The two are certainly not the same. Democracy and free speech or the limitation of them are the first issues that come to mind. so if you haven't worked it out yet, Gove’s Trojan horse plot was meant to create a fake hysteria around Muslims and Islam so that Gove could extend his powers with little complaint from the Brit public. If anyone gets the time just read Theresa mays leaked letter to Gove .. it alludes to what had been discussed and planned. the Trojan hoax was just the means of getting there - not that the bigots care about Gove’s abuse of powers. Sick and tired of this minister and his gang! Think BIG, teach people to think universal values instead of old-fashioned nationalism conducting to xenophobia. You won't have extreme practise in your school Mr Gove but you will end up with what something even more terrifying: a mass sentiment of rage against other cultures and nationalities, ignorance all around you. Shame on you.

I would like to know, from Mr Gove, what is being done to investigate the school inspector who failed to observe, report and prevent the take over of these schools? Lee Donaghy, the assistant principal of Birmingham's Park View School which was placed in special measures over fears children were at risk of radicalisation, said many of the concerns over Muslim extremists were 'plain old Islamophobia'. It was clear from remarks made by Muslims involved in the running of the schools that they were just continuing during school hours the culture that children were living in for the rest of the time, and where 95% of the pupils were Muslim it seemed only natural to do so. The whole 'Trojan Horse' thing reminds me of the Satanic Abuse scandal, which turned out to be a load of paranoid rubbish. Is there any evidence for it at all? Looks like an excuse to spread nationalist dogma into schools.The British government is advertising hatred and disgust for foreigners with many of its policies and the attitude of the press is also very unhelpful... i do not know where they think this will lead us to.
I prefer to fight evil by not allowing one minority group to be blamed, accused and then discriminated against because of a minority of the minority. There were terrorists before the current jihadist terrorists. The IRA to name but one example. Did we ban the Irish from being involved in running schools? Did we curb their liberties? Did we wholesale blame the Irish and look to enforce 'control measures' as you so worrying phrased it, against them? No, we did what all reasonable, rational and just societies did and looked for those responsible. It may not be the easiest route, but it is the just route. Wholesale discrimination of the kind you are implying is wrong, immoral and frankly disturbing that anyone would suggest it. Gove tells the teachers which books they should let the children study, forces the schools to accept a Christian version of the Bible...and if that is not censorship, I don't know what is.

When I heard Cameron talk about people "respecting" British values and institutions, I couldn't stop laughing. Institutions like the police force, that have been found to be institutionally racist? Or what about the CPS and the IPCC, who have FAILED to arrest let alone prosecute, one police officer over the five hundred or so death in custody cases. Then you have the corporate controlled corrupt media institutions in Britain, that deserve no respect.

The government's crusade to embed "British values" in our education system is meaningless at best, dangerous at worst, and a perversion of British history in any case. It's meaningless because our history is the struggle of many different Britains, each with their own conflicting sets of values. 'Values' are always something that is contested and they can have real political impact. We are a very diverse country and no Government can legislate the values for a whole population. When the Conservatives talk about British values, they imagine some Arcadian idyll of Britishness that has never really existed. Even the 'British' idea of fair play is fraught with a history of contradictions and hypocrisy. Equality for all, except those whose cultures differ to yours? I must say Cameron's grasp of history (among other things) is not exactly a good advertisement for an Eton education, but I suppose there is little anyone can do with such people. As Goethe said "Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens". Tolerance, democracy, freedom of expression, equality of men and women. Let's not forget that there are Christian religious extremists out there that don't like these things either.

David Cameron said that British values was about "tolerance". Well, then, why does he have people like Esther McVeigh, Iain Duncan Smith, Alec Sherbrook et al, in his own party? These people are the most intolerant people in the Tory Party. Almost everyone in Liverpool detests the odious woman McVeigh; Smith is universally hated; and Sherbrook is also odious. We could add Gove and Lord Freud to this list. These people make it virtually impossible to be tolerant to, because their views are intolerant in themselves. Isn't this just another example of "do as I say, not as I do"? How many of our politicians and lords still in power supported Section 28 and were against equal marriage? Surely their intolerance is not Representative of "British values". I disagree strongly with Cameron's "values".

Let's not pretend this whole "British values" nonsense is about anything else than targeting British Muslims and pretending that they are somehow different from everyone else in this country. Just as demonising Jews was once the means by which a country unified itself, so now Britons who are being viciously attacked by this Government and its super rich patrons are being asked to unite behind the flag and a vicious campaign against Islam. The neoliberal revolution, as damaging to ordinary people as the enclosures of the more distant past and the industrial revolution of the more recent, is about to claim more victims: our fellow citizens who happen to be Muslim. It is not British values our children will be taught it is simply the values that enable the establishment to continue on, in the same way they make sure that is what is taught in private schools will guarantee the continuation of 'born to rule' clones, brainwashed just as much, as detached from the rest of the population as they can be, fearful that the classes should dare to mix and actually start to understand or even empathise with each other, or God forbid work together towards a more equal society. Yes, it all stinks. Not helped too with the latest news that the only extra funding this Govt deems to fit to pass on to schools is to try and encourage state school children to join military cadet organisations. Now there's a tradition that continues on - providing the next generation of cannon fodder to again continue on what the rest of us in reality should be fighting against.

When I first saw that Cameron was wittering on about teaching children "British Values", I just found it laughable. I am British and my values are no where near his values, I personally think mine are far superior, I don't lie for a start, but I doubt he would agree. There have been times during the time this government has been in power that I have almost felt ashamed of been British, with soup kitchens, child poverty increasing and vulnerable people been left without a safety net. I don't think these things represent any values worth having. I feel much the same, when I hear him chuntering on about his own beliefs and that the UK is a Christian country. He should be keeping his own personal belief system out of his employment, for a start and personally I find the fact that by default, I am apparently a Christian, absolutely repellent. Perhaps, if Cameron wishes to continue rabbiting on about British values he should find out what values British people actually have, because I don't believe he is speaking for anyone but himself and the fairy land he apparently lives in.
Lack of evidence about what happened at the 'Trojan Horse' school. Maybe some bad things happened but there is hardly evidence of Homophobia or fascism. If there was, then local authority oversight (like in non-academy schools) would probably have stopped it. This whole debate is designed to get Gove off the hook. Remind me again how many public schools are single-sex? Including the ones attended by our current cabinet, perhaps? All Cameron is trying to do is stop Islamists taking over schools & using the curriculum to brainwash kids impressionable minds with religious mumbo jumbo that bares little resemblance to reality, science & fact. Teaching unions seem unbothered by this creeping Islamisation of our schools. Today's 'British' values are totally based on privateering and profiteering. When I hear Cameron spouting vapid platitudes about 'British values' I wonder does he mean his own superficial and election-rigging slogans, or his efforts to portray the tiny clique of fellow frat boys' aspirations as somehow 'British'? Whatever, nothing he has done has any resemblance to anything recognisable as 'British' values. Why have Gove and Cameron started to talk about how they want schools to teach British values? Because of the Ofsted investigation into schools in Birmingham. They mean "we have to make clear that the values that were being taught in those schools are not British values". It would really be better if they said "values of modern Western liberal democracy" but I suppose they think that doesn't make a very good sound bite. Ask those in Guantanamo Bay what they think of democracy and respect for the rule of law. All values are relative, and used to suit those in power.

As for the history taught in schools, I would advocate a version in which pupils were told that most events can be interpreted in many different ways. They should then be given the evidence and the tools to make up their own minds. Rather than imposing any narrative, whether left or right on to them, let them learn to make their own judgements. This will prepare them far better for active citizenship in adult life - history lessons can help them develop skills of critical reading, how to balance different viewpoints, and how to reach conclusions based on evidence. That, for me, should be the proper role of history lessons in schools. Politicians don't always seem to like this idea, presumably because it would teach the next generation of voters how to think for themselves. Cameron and Gove's version of British history has a lot to do with the Ladybird series.Perhaps we need to teach children about a wide range of historically rooted values and teach them to analyse and question these as they are guided through the wide range of facts and myriad perspectives.If Cameron's upper crust version of historically grounded values are the only ones that children are taught then this amounts to cultural dominance ,hegemony ,an imposition of the status quo etc .Cameron's vision of values seem to be geared towards producing a mass of genuflecting supplicants. The history of Britain has always been the struggle of the majority against the minority who hold power, wealth and land. They usually have the guns as well. I was thinking about how the Royals are always embedded within the military as I watched a snippet of the Trooping of the Colour the other day. Society evolves, however the powerful also evolve and find new ways to exercise their power. They own the Westminster Parliament. There is a saying that goes, "history is written by the victors". I think that's very true of every nation. The victors like to pretend that they're the good guys. Yes, that's likely! LOL.



British society must learn to respect and tolerate those who are different. God has created diverse human beings to live in this tiny global village of one family. Creation by its very nature is diverse with different species, different communities, different cultures and languages. These differences represent the beauty and wonder but diversity is sometimes not fully appreciated, resulting in all sorts of clashes. The British society and Establishment must learn to respect and accommodate others, as if in a family. A report by the Institute for Community Cohesion found that native parents were deserting some schools after finding their children outnumbered by pupils from ethnic minorities. Schools in parts of England are becoming increasingly segregated. The study focused on 13 local authorities. Many of the schools and colleges are segregated and this was generally worsening over recent years. This is RACISM because British society is the home of institutional racism. A study by Bristol University reveals that a high level of racial segregation in Oldham schools and tension between communities resulted in recent riots in 2001. The solution is that those schools where Muslim children are majority may be designated as Muslim community schools. The native parents do not want their children to be educated along with migrant children. As soon as they find that the number of other children is on the increase, they remove their children to those schools where native children are in majority.

Prince Charles, while visiting the first grant maintained Muslim school in north London, said that the pupils would be the future ambassadors of Islam. But what about thousands of others, who attend state schools, deemed to be "sink schools"? You better teach your children in your own schools and let migrant communities teach their children according to their needs and demands. British Establishment and society should concentrate on the evils of their own society and stop trying to change the way of life of Muslims. Muslim community does not want to integrate with the British society, indulging in incivility, anti-social behaviour, drug and knife culture, binge drinking, teenage pregnancies and abortion. In education, there should be a choice and at present it is denied to the Muslim community. In the late 80s and early 90s, when I floated the idea of Muslim community schools, I was declared a "school hijacker" by an editorial in the Newham Recorder newspaper. This clearly shows that the British media does not believe in choice and diversity in the field of education and has no respect for those who are different. Muslim schools, in spite of meagre resources, have excelled to a further extent this year, with couple of schools achieving 100% A-C grades for five or more GCSEs. They beat well resourced state and independent schools in Birmingham and Hackney. Muslim schools are doing better because a majority of the teachers are Muslim. The pupils are not exposed to the pressures of racism, multiculturalism and bullying. According to a recent report, Muslim schools performed best overall, although they constitute only a fraction of the country's 7000 schools. Muslim schools do well because of their Islamic ethos and a focus on traditional discipline and teaching methods. They teach children what is right and what is wrong, because young children need structured guidance.

You better teach your children in your own schools and let migrant communities teach their children according to their needs and demands. British Establishment and society should concentrate on the evils of their own society and stop trying to change the way of life of Muslims. Muslim community does not want to integrate with the British society, indulging in incivility, anti-social behaviour, drug and knife culture, binge drinking, teenage pregnancies and abortion. Prince Charles, while visiting the first grant maintained Muslim school in north London, said that the pupils would be the future ambassadors of Islam. But what about thousands of others, who attend state schools deemed to be "sink schools"? In education, there should be a choice and at present it is denied to the Muslim community. In the late 80s and early 90s, when I floated the idea of Muslim community schools, I was declared a "school hijacker" by an editorial in the Newham Recorder newspaper in east London. This clearly shows that the British media does not believe in choice and diversity in the field of education and has no respect for those who are different. Muslim schools, in spite of meagre resources, have excelled to a further extent this year, with couple of schools achieving 100% A-C grades for five or more GCSEs.

There are hundreds of state primary and secondary schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. In my opinion all such schools may be opted out to become Muslim Academies. This mean the Muslim children will get a decent education. Muslim schools turned out balanced citizens, more tolerant of others and less likely to succumb to criminality or extremism. Muslim schools give young people confidence in who they are and an understanding of Islam’s teaching of tolerance and respect which prepares them for a positive and fulfilling role in society.

[Stormlight]

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

Muslim schools teach Muslim children that sex outside marriage is a sin. Homosexuality is also a sin. Sex before marriage and homosexuality are western values and Muslims are not supposed to adopt them.

That's not a religious view but a political one. And one that is incompatible with living in the West. I'm afraid you are one of those Muslims that I would recommend leave the West and go somewhere that IS compatible with your views.

[ceptimus]

How not to fit in with British values.

In the UK today, Muslim women are less likely to speak English fluently than Muslim men. Often they're not allowed to leave their homes unless supervised by men.

For Muslims who've just immigrated to the UK I suppose this is understandable - but it also often applies to Muslim families that have been British for two or three generations - that is unforgivable.

[Iftikhar]

Originally Posted by Watser?

That's not a religious view but a political one. And one that is incompatible with living in the West. I'm afraid you are one of those Muslims that I would recommend leave the West and go somewhere that IS compatible with your views.

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. The whole world belongs to Muslims.

[Iftikhar]

Black community in the USA and Uk have adopted your culture, language and faith but they are still the under dogs of your society. English, Irish,Welsh and Scotts hate each other and they share the same culture, language and faith and on top of that they all hate foreigners. Muslim community does not share the same culture, languages and faith with the native Brits. What a way to go?

As far As English language is concerned, nobody is denying its value and focus should be on helping people learning English. Migrant community believes that an English language skill is key to ensuring equal access to services, opportunities and personal independence. The economic and social survival of bilingual Muslim community depends on English language but not at the cost of its mother tongue. It is a crime against humanity to deprive a community from its native tongue and cultural heritage. Muslim community is bilingual and does not believe in becoming monolingual Brits.

Bilingualism is an asset and not a problem. DFE is spending millions so that young generation could learn a foreign language, including Arabic and Urdu. The survival of British Muslim community depends on learning English, Arabic, Urdu and other community languages for their economic, social, emotional and spiritual prosperity. The council has stopped community papers not for reducing spending but to force Muslims to read only English papers. Tomorrow, the council will stop teaching foreign languages in schools. It will also force Mosques and Imams to read Quran and perform all prayers in English, instead of Arabic. The stupid British politicians have already asked migrant families to use English at home with their children.

I'm not sure how learning English will help stop extremism either, many of those who have carried out/plotted atrocities have been highly educated. Speaking English does not promote integration into British society, and broaden opportunities. English speaking Muslims still face discrimination in jobs, education and housing. English speaking Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist, thanks to English language. English language is not only a lingua franca but also lingua frankensteinia. Human right also covers linguistic right. Cultural and linguistic genocide are very common. British schooling is murdering community languages like Arabic, Urdu and others. English is today the world killer language. Linguistic genocide is a crime against humanity and British schooling is guilty of committing this crime.



Majority of Muslim children speak Urdu at home. Urdu is a linguafrancua language and is spoken and understood by majority of immigrants from the sub-continent. Nearly two dozen TV Channels and radio stations are broadcasting in Urdu/Hindi language. Arabic is their religious language while English is an economic language. A primary school teacher asking her pupils in the classroom: What do you call a person who speaks 3 languages? Trilingual! what do you call the person who speaks 2 languages? Bilingual. And what do you call a person who speaks only one language? British! A Muslim child must learn and be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time he must learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with his cultural heritage and enjoy the beauty of his literature and poetry.

Muslim children in state schools with non-Muslim teachers are not in a position to develop positive self-confidence and self-esteem. Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.

Muslim community would like to protect their children from the evils of the western society. You better educate your children and let Muslim community educate their children according the needs and demands of the parents.

Muslim schools teach Muslim children that sex outside marriage is a sin. Homosexuality is also a sin. Sex before marriage and homosexuality are western values and Muslims are not supposed to adopt them.
IA
London School Of Islamics

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. The whole world belongs to Muslims.

Then you'd better get the fuck used to not being in charge everywhere.

[Stormlight]

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

English, Irish,Welsh and Scotts hate each other and they share the same culture, language and faith and on top of that they all hate foreigners.

Wrong.

[ceptimus]

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

The whole world belongs to Muslims.

It's that sort of attitude that results in Muslims being involved in wars all the time. The whole world doesn't belong to one group of people that irrationally choose to believe in one flavour of god - a god that most likely doesn't even exist.

I know that not all Muslims share your extreme views. The ones that still do need to educate themselves if they want peaceful happy lives for themselves and their communities.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Watser?

Then you'd better get the fuck used to not being in charge everywhere.

And, when you are not in charge, you need to learn to be thankful that those who are allow you to practice your religion openly and stop telling everybody else how to live and what to do. Sit down and shut up, or go back to the society from which you came.

[thedoc]

People who immigrate should be ready to adopt the customs and practices of the country they are immigrating to.
If someone is a refuge and fully intends to return to their country of origins, they may maintain their own culture.
In neither case should the person try to change or influence the existing culture.

Many years ago an immigrant to America would take great pride in learning American English and learning American customs to become an American. Anyone who wants to come here but not become an American, should go back to where they came from, or go somewhere that is closer to their culture.

[erimir]

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

A couple of Pakistanis have adopted the British values of grooming young children.

Next you're going to tell me that bacha bazi was invented by the Americans or Russians when they invaded Afghanistan. Couldn't be that Muslims engage in such behavior on their own!

Let's not pretend this whole "British values" nonsense is about anything else than targeting British Muslims and pretending that they are somehow different from everyone else in this country.

Let's not pretend this whole "Muslim schools" nonsense is about anything else than targeting British Muslims and pretending that they are somehow different from everyone else in this country.

He should be keeping his own personal belief system out of his employment, for a start

But Muslim teachers should be making their religion a focus of their employment, I suppose.

personally I find the fact that by default, I am apparently a Christian, absolutely repellent.

And according to your preference, children with Muslim parents are to be considered Muslim by default and not given the same schooling as everyone else.

There is a saying that goes, "history is written by the victors". I think that's very true of every nation. The victors like to pretend that they're the good guys. Yes, that's likely! LOL.

That is true. That's why the Muslim invaders from North Africa to India feel that they were always the good guys. I doubt the Arabs of the Maghreb feel that there was anything bad about the way they displaced the religions and cultures and languages of North Africa, or the Muslim invaders felt any remorse at nearly eliminating the traditional religion of Iran.

Unfortunately, there was no Iftikhar back then arguing that they needed to treat Zoroastrians with respect, and have only Persian Zoroastrian teachers for Zoroastrian children. There weren't Muslims arguing that Egyptians needed state-funded instruction in Coptic to preserve a positive Egyptian identity. Instead, they immediately made Arabic the sole administrative language.

Hell, there isn't even an Iftikhar now that seems to have any interest in protecting linguistic and religious minorities from Muslim, Arabic and Urdu expansionism.

A report by the Institute for Community Cohesion found that native parents were deserting some schools after finding their children outnumbered by pupils from ethnic minorities. Schools in parts of England are becoming increasingly segregated. The study focused on 13 local authorities. Many of the schools and colleges are segregated and this was generally worsening over recent years. This is RACISM because British society is the home of institutional racism.

But you're proposing even more segregation as the solution to racist segregation?

Muslim community does not want to integrate with the British society, indulging in [...] teenage pregnancies

Given that many Muslim societies marry off teenage girls, or even girls as young as 11, I'm not sure that they're really united in concern over teenage pregnancy. Perhaps you mean pregnancy outside of marriage?

There are hundreds of state primary and secondary schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. In my opinion all such schools may be opted out to become Muslim Academies.

They're merely the majority then? What about the non-Muslim children in these schools? What about the children from Muslim families who do not want a Muslim education? What about the children from Muslim families who reject Islam or religion altogether?

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

English speaking Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist, thanks to English language.

How does the English language in itself harm them, exactly?

Human right also covers linguistic right. Cultural and linguistic genocide are very common. British schooling is murdering community languages like Arabic, Urdu and others. English is today the world killer language. Linguistic genocide is a crime against humanity and British schooling is guilty of committing this crime.

Immigrants adopting the language of their adopted land, particularly when their language has millions and millions of speakers in their homeland, doesn't count as linguistic genocide. When the UK used to punish Welsh children for speaking Welsh in school, that was an act that could fall under linguistic genocide. Not providing immersion in an immigrant language does not.

While I am for bilingual education and so forth, there is a limit in resources and not every immigrant language can be maintained. Furthermore, there is no reason for students that speak English natively to receive their education primarily in a different language that's not even indigenous to the UK - at least not funded by the government. But I certainly support the idea of offering Arabic and Urdu (and other languages) starting from the early grades. Minority languages indigenous to the UK, on the other hand, deserve a bit more support. Welsh and Scots Gaelic have no other pools of speakers, the survival of those languages does depend on UK policy.

Of course, the irony is that Arabic and Urdu are themselves languages that have gone around "murdering" community languages. The only ones you could come up with preserving are themselves imperial languages. As I discussed above, Arabic destroyed the Coptic language. It also has nearly killed off the Berber and Aramaic languages, the South Arabian languages are under threat as well. Urdu is the language of Muslims who moved to Pakistan during the partition of India and is not really native to the country. It has been imposed on the indigenous inhabitants of Pakistan. Even large languages like Punjabi, Pashto and Balochi don't have official status in Pakistan, much less the dozens of minor languages around the country. And of course, anyone familiar with the history of Urdu linguistic expansion ought to know that the war between Pakistan and Bangladesh was sparked partly due to Urdu linguistic imperialism and the refusal to grant Bengali official status.

Yet those two linguistic murderers are the only two you ever mention as being in need of saving! I think they'll be fine. It's the linguistic victims of Arabic and Urdu expansion that are at threat of being wiped out.

Also perhaps the Muslim children you're so concerned about having a positive identity would appreciate learning about their pre-Arabic/pre-Urdu and pre-Muslim heritage? Won't they feel better about their identity if they learn of the cultural achievements that were indigenous to their lands, rather than what was imposed on them by Arab/Muslim cultural genocide?

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

What do you expect from a so called civilised nation? West must earn to respect and tolerate those who are different.

Except that you want to create private schools which neither respect nor tolerate those who are different.

The problem we are experiencing is a direct result of lack of respect and tolerance substituted by ignorance.

No, the problem is the direct result of Islamic extremists who think they are owed some kind of special favoritism. They are not.

Burqa is not locking women, it is a buffer line between protecting chastity and exposing. Being naked and drunk is acceptable but being covered and modest is inhuman.

It isn't modesty. It's paternal control. You confuse the two.

This is Britain. We are to a large extent 'free' people.

Except for Islamic extremists, who try to control members of their own communities living in Britain, while pretending to approve of Western-style respect for individuality and personal freedoms.

I am sick of government intervention in ever aspect of everyone's lives!

LOL so instead, you want shariah law, which would have the church and the government merge into one entity, and then have that one entity get into everyone's lives.

When I were a lad I went to Spain. Most of the nuns wore full face veils and they were HUGELY respected for their religious vows.

I bet the nuns weren't working underground with extremists trying to blow up people though, were they?
You left out that important detail.

Secularism is about respecting the right of people to follow any religion equally (or none),

Why are you preaching the values of secularism?
No true Muslim would advocate a secular society.

The question is not about to veil or not to veil but for every woman to have the right to choose.

This is question of basic human right including the right to freedom of religion and expression.

Which women don't have at all, under Islamic societies. So why don't fix your own societies inside the Islamic world first, before demanding that European societies peddle to your desires?

Go ahead: fix your own countries. Show the whole world how tolerant Islam is, and how respect for women *should* be practiced.
If you do a good job, then maybe the rest of the world will follow your example.

My guess, though, is that you actually *agree* with the oppression of women, non-Muslims, minority groups, etc. that is going on in Islamic countries; therefore in your eyes, there is nothing to 'fix' in the first place. That's just how a proper Islamic society should behave, as far as you are concerned.
You'd just like to bring that same level of male Muslim domination to your Islamic communities living in the UK, and you're frustrated because the UK laws are not allowing that to happen.
So you are pretending that your civil rights are being violated - the same civil rights is something you wouldn't extend to members of minority groups yourself.

No, you aren't fooling anyone.

We live in an overly vain culture that is having a detrimental effect upon the mental health of young women. We live in an overly promiscuous society in which abortion rates keep going up along with sexually transmitted diseases.

As opposed to an Islamic society, where women are forced to stay at home, barred from education, burned alive, married off in arranged marriages while they are still young children, etc.

[godfry n. glad]

Iftikar....

I've told you before and I'll probably tell you again...You are a stranger in a strange land. You don't tell those who live here and lived here long before you and your people arrived how to live or what to worship. You pay your taxes to support public education and are given the choice to replace or augment that public education with private, and religious, education....but it will not relieve you of the burden of taxation for public education, nor will the public pay for the religious education.

Consider it the equivalent of jizyah....and remember your place.

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

Muslim schools teach Muslim children that sex outside marriage is a sin. Homosexuality is also a sin.

Those teachings are false as a simple matter of fact, Cochise. Why should public funds be used to subsidize the teaching of falsehoods?

[Iftikhar]

Muslim community is a part and parcel of British society. Muslim community pays all sorts of direct and indirect taxes, contributing for the economic and social prosperity of the British society.

[mickthinks]

Muslim community is a part and parcel of British society.

If you believed that (and I suspect you don't really) then you would not insist on segregated schools for Muslim children.

[Iftikhar]

The demand for state funded |Muslim schools with Muslim teachers is nothing to do with segregation or integration. It is purely an educational issue.

[mickthinks]

The demand for state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers is not purely an educational issue. It is all about Muslims not being "part and parcel of British society".