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  #26  
Old 10-28-2008, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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Originally Posted by Smilin View Post
And it's highly arrogant to think the entire universe was created just for mankind.
Highly arrogant? Look at all the resources that human beings throw into the development of their own education. Why should the Creator (if He exists) be any less extravagant with respect to His own progeny? (i.e., us). The Universe is like one vast playground, at least for those who are sentient and aware, and are capable of experiencing it.
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  #27  
Old 10-28-2008, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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That is taking the anthropic principle and basing a circular argument upon it. Starting with an unspoken atheistic assumption that the universe was first in the causation chain and then concluding our lovely fit is conclusively explicable by our adaptation to it.

It has a high initial plausibility to it, but at the end of the day it doesn't get us any further.
It is not an 'unspoken atheistic assumption', it's a scientific theory based on overwhelming evidence that man evolved on this planet. The evidence that man predates the universe or that the universe was created especially for man is non-existent.
The question is not really whether man predates the planet, but if intelligence (in the form of a Creator) predates the planet.
No, it isn't. That's your answer.
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  #28  
Old 10-28-2008, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

It is what I had in mind when I started the thread.
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  #29  
Old 10-28-2008, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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That is taking the anthropic principle and basing a circular argument upon it. Starting with an unspoken atheistic assumption that the universe was first in the causation chain and then concluding our lovely fit is conclusively explicable by our adaptation to it.

It has a high initial plausibility to it, but at the end of the day it doesn't get us any further.
Not exactly. There is little to dispute in that the universe is here and so are we. It is god that takes the big leap of "faith".
Notwithstanding that we do have the capacity to question it and evaluate it. This would not be possible if we were not sentient and aware. In which case it simply becomes a matter of asking if it is something we should accept "blindly," without any due consideration which, I'm sure many do. Or, maybe it's something that we don't need to understand outright, just so long as our "spirit" of inquiry remains intact? This is the only thing that's going to make any real difference, in terms of whether we ultimately come to understand it or not.
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  #30  
Old 10-28-2008, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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The Universe is like one vast playground, at least for those who are sentient and aware, and are capable of experiencing it.
The universe is a hostile place incapable of supporting life (as we know it) anywhere else other than here on earth.

You left that little tidbit out of your "romantic notion" eh?
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  #31  
Old 10-28-2008, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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It is what I had in mind when I started the thread.
My favorite part of this thread thus far has been the "dark, succubus-like blonde"

:yup:
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  #32  
Old 10-28-2008, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

It looked like someone smacked her in the face with a baseball bat.
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  #33  
Old 10-28-2008, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

Do succubi typically get beat in the face?
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  #34  
Old 10-28-2008, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

I don't know, do pimps slap their whores around?
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  #35  
Old 10-28-2008, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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The Universe is like one vast playground, at least for those who are sentient and aware, and are capable of experiencing it.
The universe is a hostile place incapable of supporting life (as we know it) anywhere else other than here on earth.

You left that little tidbit out of your "romantic notion" eh?
Yes, ours is but a tiny oasis in a vast wilderness. Yet, we wouldn't be here if the conditions weren't "right." Evidence of just how right they were, can be based on how much life has flourished on this planet. Hence it would seem to have been an all or nothing proposition, almost as if it were done deliberately or, on purpose.
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Death (and living) is all in our heads. It is a creation of our own imagination. So, maybe we just "imagine" that we die? :prettycolors:

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  #36  
Old 10-28-2008, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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My favorite part of this thread thus far has been the "dark, succubus-like blonde"

:yup:
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  #37  
Old 10-29-2008, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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It is god that takes the big leap of "faith".
It's worth noting that this phrase appears nowhere in the Bible, at least not in the KJV. Whatever the reason for this absence, while many things may require such a leap, belief in God requires no effort whatsoever; and in fact, any effort whatsoever is inimical to said belief.
If it takes no effort then why have a bible at all?
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  #38  
Old 10-29-2008, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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If it takes no effort then why have a bible at all?
Once you've lost faith, it can make you aware of that fact. And there is wisdom in it. But believing in it isn't a prerequisite for belief in God.
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  #39  
Old 10-29-2008, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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The Universe is like one vast playground, at least for those who are sentient and aware, and are capable of experiencing it.
99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the known Universe is completely incapable of supporting life. The Universe was 99.997% of its current age when the first Homo sapiens appeared. It seems just a teensy bit presumptuous to think that the Universe exists for us in any sense.


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Evidence of just how right they were, can be based on how much life has flourished on this planet. Hence it would seem to have been an all or nothing proposition, almost as if it were done deliberately or, on purpose.
99+% of the species that have ever existed on Earth are now extinct.

Cheers,

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  #40  
Old 10-29-2008, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

As I previously stated, and as backed up from the Lone Ranger's examples...

It's mighty arrogant to think the universe was created, appeared, or has always existed simply to accomodate mankind.
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  #41  
Old 10-29-2008, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

I am still trying to figure out what the hell is special or enlightening about the video.
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  #42  
Old 10-29-2008, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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If it takes no effort then why have a bible at all?
Once you've lost faith, it can make you aware of that fact. And there is wisdom in it. But believing in it isn't a prerequisite for belief in God.
Why a bible to "make you aware of that fact" of lost faith? And lost faith in which god and what exactly? It is not as if there is only one holy book. It looks very much to me that it has nothing to do with "faith in god" but more to do with "faith" in some particular holy book. Because with or without the holy book, most of those "beliefs" are very strange.
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  #43  
Old 10-29-2008, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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The Universe is like one vast playground, at least for those who are sentient and aware, and are capable of experiencing it.
99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the known Universe is completely incapable of supporting life. The Universe was 99.997% of its current age when the first Homo sapiens appeared. It seems just a teensy bit presumptuous to think that the Universe exists for us in any sense.
Are we talking about the vastness of open space versus inhabitable planets or, planets in general or what?

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Evidence of just how right they were, can be based on how much life has flourished on this planet. Hence it would seem to have been an all or nothing proposition, almost as if it were done deliberately or, on purpose.
99+% of the species that have ever existed on Earth are now extinct.
It still belies the uniqueness of conditions that had to be met.
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  #44  
Old 10-29-2008, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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Are we talking about the vastness of open space versus inhabitable planets or, planets in general or what?
Currently, there are no other known, habitable planets in the universe. Doesn't mean there aren't any, but just pointing this out.
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It still belies the uniqueness of conditions that had to be met.
You really have no clue on how immense the universe is do you?

The nearest single star we couldn't even reach in a life time if speed of light travel were possible, which it isn't.

Multiply this exponentially by 1,000,000 for the other stars simply in our galxy and then again by ten thousand for the other KNOWN galxies we've discovered.

The universe is indeed infinite and "eternal" that is to say there is no ending nor beginning to it.

We are less than even a speck of sand on the beach when comparing the earth to the entier universe.

And you wish to try and convince people that the earth is special?

We can't even image the planets orbiting the closest star to us...and when you compound on the order of trillions, you will soon realize we are nothing special in the scheme of the universe.

An oddity at best.
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  #45  
Old 10-29-2008, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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If it takes no effort then why have a bible at all?
Once you've lost faith, it can make you aware of that fact. And there is wisdom in it. But believing in it isn't a prerequisite for belief in God.
Why a bible to "make you aware of that fact" of lost faith?
Doesn't have to be a Bible. It could be almost anything...so the real question is, why not a Bible? ;)
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And lost faith in which god and what exactly?
Since there's only one God, the question makes as much sense as asking which atmosphere one ought to breathe from.
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It looks very much to me that it has nothing to do with "faith in god" but more to do with "faith" in some particular holy book.
I'm sure it does. And I doubt that you'd have it any other way.
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  #46  
Old 10-29-2008, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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The nearest single star we couldn't even reach in a life time if speed of light travel were possible, which it isn't.
Errr... Actually, if speed of light traver were possible, the nearest star would be reached in under 5 years (it being ~4.2 lightyears away). No guarantee it'll have planets, though, and certainly unlikely to have one habitable to us.

Habitable (to humans) planets are likely to be somewhat uncommon, compared to other kinds of planets, as they do require some pretty specific circumstances. But as you said, the universe is a big place. Hell, just our own galaxy is almost incomprehensibly big. Personally, I'm confident that earth will prove remarkable only as our point of origin when we get out there among the stars.
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  #47  
Old 10-29-2008, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

Human beings are so-designed to live in the here and now, not in some galaxy far far away. In fact, all we have is the here and now. So, it either begins here, right where we stand at this moment, or it doesn't. Or, even if it began at the end of the Universe, the same criteria would still apply. So, in that respect it doesn't matter where life began, so long as it began.
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  #48  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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If it takes no effort then why have a bible at all?
Once you've lost faith, it can make you aware of that fact. And there is wisdom in it. But believing in it isn't a prerequisite for belief in God.
Why a bible to "make you aware of that fact" of lost faith?
Doesn't have to be a Bible. It could be almost anything...so the real question is, why not a Bible? ;)
If it can be anything then why make it something created by man?

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And lost faith in which god and what exactly?
Since there's only one God, the question makes as much sense as asking which atmosphere one ought to breathe from.
I forgot. This is yguy. Of course everybody else's god is a fake god.

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It looks very much to me that it has nothing to do with "faith in god" but more to do with "faith" in some particular holy book.
I'm sure it does. And I doubt that you'd have it any other way.
Why would I care which holy book you decide to have "faith" in. That is your choice. What is funny about this is that you can see how silly the "faith" in the holy books about the fake gods is but somehow can't see you are doing the exact same thing with your god and holy book.
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  #49  
Old 10-30-2008, 12:24 AM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

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What is funny about this is that you can see how silly the "faith" in the holy books about the fake gods is but somehow can't see you are doing the exact same thing with your god and holy book.
Actually there's a perfectly good reason for my inability to see that: it's not happening.

Of course I understand that you are compelled to believe otherwise, but that's not my problem.
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  #50  
Old 10-30-2008, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: Resonant Consciousness ~ Point of Light

Yeah, n.a, that's totally not what's happening. He just uses his 'common sense' is all. Obviously.
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