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06-25-2013, 03:51 PM
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Flyover Hillbilly
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Juggalonia
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
It seems to have not been decided on whether the drug label warnings were adequate, but on whether the generic manufacturer has the power to change/add to the warnings or change the formulation of a name brand and something about state laws vs. federal laws contradicting each other.
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That's about it. One of the rules applied in these case is that if compliance with both state law and federal law is impossible, a conflict exists. The state law is thus preempted and unenforceable. The jury in that case, applying state tort law, found that the warning was inadequate. As to federal law, once the FDA approves a warning, a generic drug manufacture can't change it except to comport with changes in the warnings of the corresponding brand name drug. On that basis, the majority decided that compliance with federal law and state law was impossible, so the injured person had no remedy under state law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
If injured people can't seek remedy from the manufacturer, who exactly can they seek remedy from? The patent holder (which is the name brand manufacturer I assume)? Nobody? Just SOL?
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Subject to limited exceptions that don't apply here, the answer is SOL.
__________________
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis
"Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko
"What the fuck is a German muffin?" ~ R. Swanson
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06-25-2013, 03:59 PM
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Safety glasses off, motherfuckers
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sarasota, FL
Gender: Bender
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
SCOTUS relieves Americans from the burdens of voting: Supreme Court strikes down part of Voting Rights Act - The Maddow Blog
On the plus side, they left part of the act to Congress to "fix". On the negative side, it's Congress.
__________________
Cēterum cēnseō factiōnem Rēpūblicānam dēlendam esse īgnī ferrōque.
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06-25-2013, 04:45 PM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
It seems to have not been decided on whether the drug label warnings were adequate, but on whether the generic manufacturer has the power to change/add to the warnings or change the formulation of a name brand and something about state laws vs. federal laws contradicting each other.
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That's about it. One of the rules applied in these case is that if compliance with both state law and federal law is impossible, a conflict exists. The state law is thus preempted and unenforceable. The jury in that case, applying state tort law, found that the warning was inadequate. As to federal law, once the FDA approves a warning, a generic drug manufacture can't change it except to comport with changes in the warnings of the corresponding brand name drug. On that basis, the majority decided that compliance with federal law and state law was impossible, so the injured person had no remedy under state law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
If injured people can't seek remedy from the manufacturer, who exactly can they seek remedy from? The patent holder (which is the name brand manufacturer I assume)? Nobody? Just SOL?
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Subject to limited exceptions that don't apply here, the answer is SOL.
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This is incredibly fucked the fuck up. So how can the laws be changed to not be fucked up?
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06-25-2013, 04:49 PM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
I predict Shelby County is going to go full retard with this "win", and force Congress to act somehow (probably also retarded) because...Shelby County.
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06-25-2013, 05:00 PM
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Jin, Gi, Rei, Ko, Chi, Shin, Tei
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Wait, I'm confused.
Aren't Scalia and his ilk always getting their panties in a bunch about how we should always go for "Original Intent," and how it's a sin to interpret the Constitution as a "living and breathing document"?
After all, Congress has been pretty danged clear regarding the "Original Intent" of the Voting Rights Act. So how is this not an example of the Court's Conservative members doing exactly what they frequently criticize the more Liberal members for supposedly doing?
__________________
“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.” -- Socrates
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06-25-2013, 05:15 PM
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Safety glasses off, motherfuckers
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sarasota, FL
Gender: Bender
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Yes except that he isn't interpreting the original intent of the 1965 Congress because lol who cares. The original intent that matters is the original intent of the Framers and that was that only white, male property holders could vote. This is just the first step towards re-establishing that glorious paradise.
Here's Wonkette's take, and Borowitz'.
__________________
Cēterum cēnseō factiōnem Rēpūblicānam dēlendam esse īgnī ferrōque.
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06-25-2013, 05:18 PM
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Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Yeah, I think there's a language issue here.
In the phrase "original intent", "original" means "conservative" and "intent" means "interpretation." For example, in the sentence "The original intent of the feminist movement was to destroy society." I can see where the confusion would arise.
Also, just how fucked are voters/black people/Democrats by the VRA ruling?
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06-25-2013, 05:29 PM
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Fishy mokey
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Yes except that he isn't interpreting the original intent of the 1965 Congress because lol who cares. The original intent that matters is the original intent of the Framers and that was that only white, male property holders could vote. This is just the first step towards re-establishing that glorious paradise.
Here's Wonkette's take, and Borowitz'.
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Apparently it still matters somehow whether people vote or not. At least to the Supreme Court.
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06-25-2013, 05:39 PM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir
Also, just how fucked are voters/black people/Democrats by the VRA ruling?
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As fucked as they already are and have been in areas not covered, but that engage in disenfranchisement shenanigans. There are still legal remedies, but only after the fact.
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06-26-2013, 02:44 PM
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liar in wolf's clothing
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
15 minutes.
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06-26-2013, 03:01 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: California
Gender: Female
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
DOMA is first.
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06-26-2013, 03:05 PM
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liar in wolf's clothing
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
DOMA does not survive.
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Thanks, from:
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beyelzu (06-26-2013), chunksmediocrites (06-26-2013), Demimonde (06-26-2013), Dingfod (06-27-2013), Janet (06-26-2013), LadyShea (06-26-2013), livius drusus (06-26-2013), Nullifidian (07-19-2013), The Man (06-26-2013), vremya (06-26-2013), Ymir's blood (06-26-2013)
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06-26-2013, 03:07 PM
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liar in wolf's clothing
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Fucking a, I am in a meeting and can't read shit. I need to pretend that I am taking notes.
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06-26-2013, 03:11 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: California
Gender: Female
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
IANAL but people are dancing in the streets here in Santa Cruz. I'm jumping all over from site to site but so far I haven't seen any qualifications that make this not great.
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06-26-2013, 03:14 PM
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Flyover Hillbilly
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Juggalonia
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Looks like they're going to dismiss the Prop 8 case on jurisdictional grounds. Hopefully they do in a way that allows the 9th Cir. decision shooting down Prop 8 to stand.
__________________
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis
"Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko
"What the fuck is a German muffin?" ~ R. Swanson
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06-26-2013, 03:16 PM
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Bizarre unknowable space alien
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flint, MI
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Thanks to the tip about SCOTUSblog's live feed I actually beat George Takei to posting the news on Facebook. Wait, I think that belongs in the minor accomplishments thread instead.
__________________
"freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order."
- Justice Robert Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Ed. v. Barnette
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Thanks, from:
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Adam (07-01-2013), BrotherMan (06-26-2013), chunksmediocrites (06-26-2013), Demimonde (06-26-2013), Dingfod (06-27-2013), Kyuss Apollo (06-27-2013), livius drusus (06-26-2013), Nullifidian (07-19-2013), Stephen Maturin (06-26-2013), The Man (06-26-2013), vremya (06-26-2013), Watser? (06-26-2013), Ymir's blood (06-26-2013)
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06-26-2013, 03:19 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: California
Gender: Female
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Looks like they're going to dismiss the Prop 8 case on jurisdictional grounds. Hopefully they do in a way that allows the 9th Cir. decision shooting down Prop 8 to stand.
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Can you explain that a bit more? What are their choices of ways to dismiss it?
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06-26-2013, 03:20 PM
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Flyover Hillbilly
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Juggalonia
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
lol Scalia is still gushing butthurt over the DOMA decision.
__________________
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis
"Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko
"What the fuck is a German muffin?" ~ R. Swanson
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06-26-2013, 03:20 PM
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liar in wolf's clothing
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Dude, rational basis hasn't been in this game since 2003. Get over it.
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06-26-2013, 03:21 PM
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Flyover Hillbilly
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Juggalonia
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
__________________
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis
"Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko
"What the fuck is a German muffin?" ~ R. Swanson
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06-26-2013, 03:27 PM
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Flyover Hillbilly
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Juggalonia
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Perry is in. The petitioners lacked standing to appeal the trial court order shooting down Prop 8. Presumably, that means the 9th Circuit decision affirming the trial court gets vacated, but the trial court ruling stands.
__________________
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis
"Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko
"What the fuck is a German muffin?" ~ R. Swanson
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06-26-2013, 05:40 PM
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Jin, Gi, Rei, Ko, Chi, Shin, Tei
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
I was listening to a radio program this morning that was discussing the recent rulings. Maybe somebody can help me clarify my understanding.
Regarding DOMA, the claim was that the central debate boiled down to the differing reasoning between Kennedy and Scalia. Supposedly, Kennedy's reasoning is that the State has no business legislating on the basis of "moral disapproval," and that if the State is to ban a practice, it must provide solid evidence that the practice causes actual harm -- the mere fact that [some] people disapprove of the practice is not a justification for banning it.
If that's an accurate assessment, then I have to agree. What business does the State have in telling consenting adults who they can and cannot marry? It's no one else's business whom I choose to marry.
Scalia, on the other hand, feels just the opposite, or so it was claimed. That is, in Scalia's view, "moral disapproval" is the best reason to ban a practice, and that the law is all about legislating morality.
I certainly know people who feel that way. A "friend" of mine is very keen on insisting that all laws are about morality when you get down to it, and that whether or not a practice is "moral" is the only legitimate question regarding whether or not it should be legal.
Of course, he also insists that there is such a thing as "Objective Morality," and that it is codified in one convenient package: the Bible. And naturally, what he believes is "moral" is clearly and obviously so -- and anyone who disagrees is clearly and obviously an immoral person whose opinions should be disregarded.
So, the panelists went on to say that this will lead to a scramble for states to come up with "rational" reasons why gays should not be able to marry. One such proposal was called "responsible procreation." That's not a term I'd heard before.
As the panelist explained it, the argument goes something like this: Because straight men are "animalistic" by nature, and can impregnate women and then abandon them, the State has a vested interest in promoting the "prestige" of marriage, to encourage straight men to be "responsible" when it comes to fathering children and caring for their partners and offspring.
Since gay couples can't reproduce "naturally," this isn't an issue with them, and therefore the State has no interest in promoting gay marriage.
Is that a serious argument? It sounds more like somebody's idea of a parody than a serious argument, at least to me.
__________________
“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.” -- Socrates
Last edited by The Lone Ranger; 06-26-2013 at 07:28 PM.
Reason: Corrected a typo.
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06-26-2013, 05:41 PM
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Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
How soon does the gayness resume in California?
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06-26-2013, 07:19 PM
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Flyover Hillbilly
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Juggalonia
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
How narrow was the ruling in the Indian Child Welfare Act case? I heard that this case could potentially invalidate much of indian sovereignty generally.
Also, it is a rough situation for the adoptive parents, but according to the biological father, he got railroaded into signing his parental rights away, a few days before his military deployment.
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Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl (pdf, 62 pages).
I hadn't paid any attention at all to this case, but it turned out to be interesting as hell. First, the obligatory pop culture reference:
Anyhoo, a mostly Hispanic woman and a Cherokee man living in Oklahoma got engaged. Shortly thereafter the woman announced she was pregnant. The man wanted to move up the wedding, but apparently declined to provide any financial support before the child was born.
The couple split up while the woman was still pregnant. She told her ex-fiance that he had two choices: pay child support or give up his parental rights. He supposedly responded that he'd give up his rights.
The woman opted for adoption. Working through a private agency, she found a non-Indian couple in South Carolina who wanted the baby. The couple provided financial support for the mother throughout the rest of the pregnancy and were present for the birth. The biological father had nothing to do with the mother and provided no financial support after the breakup.
Adoption proceedings were commenced in South Carolina. The biological father received notice and ultimately (1) contested the adoption and (2) requested that the court award custody of the child to him.
The child, a girl, was 1.2% Cherokee. Doesn't sound like much, but it qualifies her for membership in the Cherokee nation and makes the girl an "Indian child" for purposes of the Indian Child Welfare Act. At the conclusion of a trial the family court judge nixed the adoption and awarded custody to the BF. The judge held that ICWA applied and that the adoptive parents failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the child would suffer serious emotional or physical harm in the BF's custody, a showing that 25 U.S.C. § 1912(f) requires to justify terminating parental rights to an Indian child.
The BF met his child for the first time on the day the custody transfer took place. She was 27 months old.
The S.C. Supreme Court affirmed the family court, finding that awarding custody to BF was warranted under not only § 1912(f) but also two other provisions of ICWA.
The Supreme Court (5-4) held that none of the three ICWA provisions at issue applied. Section 1912(f), the provision that the family court relied on, requires a showing that "continued custody" by the parent will result in emotional or physical harm. The majority said the statute doesn't apply at all because there's no "continued custody" issue. The father never had physical custody, and under both Oklahoma and S.C. law the mother has sole legal custody of a child borne out of wedlock. Since BF never had custody to begin with, § 1912(f) can't apply.
The S.C. Supreme Court also relied on § 1912(d), which requires proof of "active efforts" to provide counseling or other services aimed at "prevent[ing] the breakup of the Indian family" prior to terminating parental rights to an Indian child. The majority was all like, "lol wtf there was never an 'Indian family' here so there was nothing to 'break up.' The statute doesn't apply."
Finally, the S.C. Supreme Court suggested that even if the family court could properly terminate the BF's parental rights, § 1915(a) of ICWA would kick in and require the court to give preference to placing the child with a member of her extended family, other members of the child's tribe, or other Indian families. The SCOTUS majority ruled that § 1915(a) didn't apply because no one with a statutory preference was asking to adopt the child.
The majority makes the case look like a straightforward no-brainer exercise in statutory interpretation. But then you get to Thomas' concurrence. Ol' Clarence tells us that BF's reading of the provisions at issue is perfectly plausible. On his view, BF's interpretation would create a serious constitutional problem because Congress lacks the authority to tell states how to handle adoption and child custody matters. He sided with the majority in this case because its interpretation of the statute, which was also plausible, avoids the constitutional issue.
Then you get to Breyer's brief concurrence, which consists of some disjointed musings about some potential undesirable consequences of the majority's decision and how they might or might not be avoided in future cases. Maybe! Seriously, wtf.
Sotomayor's dissent is masterful. She stomped the everluving shit out of each an every basis for the majority decision. Particularly enjoyable was the takedown of the majority's statement that reading ICWA broadly enough that it applies to this case would make it harder for non-Indians to adopt Indian children. The response was something along the lines of: "Yo, dumbass, that's exactly what Congress wanted." So then:
Quote:
The majority’s hollow literalism distorts the statute and ignores Congress’ purpose in order to rectify a perceived wrong that, while heartbreaking at the time, was a correct application of federal law and that in any case cannot be undone. Baby Girl has now resided with her father for 18 months. However difficult it must have been for her to leave Adoptive Couple’s home when she was just over 2 years old, it will be equally devastating now if, at the age of 3˝, she is again removed from her home and sent to live halfway across the country. Such a fate is not foreor*dained, of course. But it can be said with certainty that the anguish this case has caused will only be compounded by today’s decision.
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__________________
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis
"Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko
"What the fuck is a German muffin?" ~ R. Swanson
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Thanks, from:
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Adam (07-01-2013), BrotherMan (06-26-2013), Demimonde (06-26-2013), Dingfod (06-27-2013), Janet (06-26-2013), LadyShea (06-27-2013), lisarea (06-26-2013), livius drusus (06-26-2013), Nullifidian (07-19-2013), SR71 (06-27-2013), The Lone Ranger (06-26-2013), The Man (06-26-2013), Watser? (06-27-2013), Ymir's blood (06-26-2013)
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06-26-2013, 07:35 PM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bay Area
Gender: Male
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Re: SCOTAL Itch
Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir
How soon does the gayness resume in California?
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The governor has instructed offices to start issuing licenses as soon as the 9th circuit stay is lifted. Which could be soon, could be in a month. All counties must comply even the whiny conservative ones.
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