Narcissists: Can they be reasoned with? - Page 2

Kevlar · #26 04-18-2008, 10:17 PM

In my experience, I've only been able to manage relationships with narcissists by pandering to their ego. Although, that only works in the short term... I have no idea about long term, except maybe a good firearm.

lisarea · #27 04-18-2008, 10:53 PM

I am kind of a big racist against serious pathological narcissists. I sort of consider them sub-human, so personally, I'd probably cut the person off regardless of any personal commitment I'd made, just on the grounds that, when I make a commitment to a human being, there's an implicit assumption that they live up to certain minimum 'human being' standards, including having some kind of capability for empathy and concern or at least ability to act in the better interests of others.

And the narcissists I'm familiar with do pose a danger to others, simply because of that disregard and lack of empathy. Depending on the situation, that risk might be physical or emotional, but there is always a risk.

At the very least, I think you'd be justified in placing conditions and reasonable limitations on the contact you've committed to in order to mitigate those risks.

ZEZOZE · #28 04-18-2008, 11:02 PM

narcissism is a mental condition...can you not feel some empathy for these people?

seebs · #29 04-19-2008, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InTheServiceOfZeke

narcissism is a mental condition...can you not feel some empathy for these people?

Sure. I feel awful for them.

However, no amount of empathy for them makes them even capable of being honest when it doesn't make them feel good. They can't be honest, they can't be trustworthy. So interactions with them are, well, difficult.

viscousmemories · #30 04-19-2008, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladyshea

I thought at first he was just kind of a coddled dumbass. Then I thought he was merely an immature fuckup, with enough charm that he managed to get his way with a lot of people. Now I know it's worse than that...the guy is pathologically self absorbed.

I'm sitting right here y'know. :sadcheer:

seebs · #31 04-19-2008, 02:25 AM

Oh, great. Six years from now, mickthinks will be showing up unannounced at parties claiming that viscousmemories claims to have a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder.

Garnet · #32 04-19-2008, 03:12 AM

Lady Shea, not much help here. All jokes about Gurdur aside, I was just chatting with MT about the last time I had to be around someone like you mention in the OP. He was an executive in the company the was the prime contractor on the last project I was on. Dealing with him was always a stress fest . The only way I can handle these folks is to stay the hell away from them. He is one of the reasons I left that project.

Master Taran · #33 04-19-2008, 03:55 AM

I still say give them Gurdur's phone #. That way he can tell them to get over their selves.

Ensign Steve · #34 04-19-2008, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InTheServiceOfZeke

sometimes, i wonder why i continue here, but there is a lesson in all of this for me. it is personal.

I thought you stuck around because you like me.

Oh wait, you mean it's not all about me?!

ZEZOZE · #35 04-19-2008, 04:05 AM

oh it's always about you. you definitely brighten this place up.

Ensign Steve · #36 04-19-2008, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyShea

The other is, unfortunately, someone I will have to deal with regularly and for a long time (unless he does something so egregious as to justify ceasing contact. As a person of integrity who has made a commitment to contact with him, though, it would need to be something really bad...like dangerous to people). I am only just finding out he is a narcissist though. I thought at first he was just kind of a coddled dumbass. Then I thought he was merely an immature fuckup, with enough charm that he managed to get his way with a lot of people. Now I know it's worse than that...the guy is pathologically self absorbed.

I'm trying to guess who it is. Is it anyone I know? Wait, it's not me, is it? :shiftier:

Quote:

Originally Posted by InTheServiceOfZeke

oh it's always about you. you definitely brighten this place up.

You're such a sweetie. :squeezle:

And you definitely make this place worth coming back to every day.

S.Vashti · #37 04-19-2008, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Anybody here ever had to deal with a narcissist (not merely arrogant, I am talking pathological or personality disordered level of self absorption) on a consistent enough basis that they might have a tip on how to communicate with one short term?

Having done customer service for 20 years I have a few things I have learned, but none of them have worked in two specific instances recently, and I need to try a different approach.

Yes, I've known a couple, no, I still don't know how to deal with them. I've read it may be possible if you appeal to something about them they consider special. Or perhaps flatter them by pointing out you think they are special.

OK, and then I read all the posts, which say essentially the same thing. I wound up removing myself from both, and I'm quite convinced they have no idea why I did so.

naturalist.atheist · #38 04-19-2008, 04:20 AM

Here is what this site has to say about it:

How to Talk To A Narcissist - by Bill Snow - Response to Readers' Questions

LadyShea · #39 04-19-2008, 05:21 AM

vm, you are a lot of things, but not a narcissist. I can tell on accounta I like you.

And yes, Ensign Steve, it's YOU!

Actually it's Kiddo's bio-dad. I wanted to stay vague but can't think of any reason why I should, now I think of it.

Ensign Steve · #40 04-19-2008, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyShea

And yes, Ensign Steve, it's YOU!

I knew it! It's all about me! :w00t:

Seriously, though, I'm sorry to hear that. I know how complicated those relationships can get, and personality disorders do not help! Best wishes.

lisarea · #41 04-19-2008, 06:07 AM

If you're worried about it affecting Kiddo, do what you think is right, and don't worry about any commitments you made to the bio-dad. The Kiddo commitment trumps that.

If you want to cut him off or limit his interactions in the interests of the kid, you should. Depending on how far gone bio-dad is, he'll either understand at some level, and accept his responsibility for it and possibly even do something to change his behaviors; or he will fail to acknowledge his role in the situation and blame you entirely, which is all the confirmation you need that your decision was the right one.

The one serious narcissist I'm currently familiar with has a kid, and all that kid is to him is a means to various selfish ends. He seems to be completely unconcerned with his child's well being, and while the kid is doing pretty well despite it, he hasn't come out unscathed by a long stretch. Of course, this guy has shared custody, so the effect is more severe than it would be with occasional supervised visits, but only you guys can determine what's OK for your kid and what isn't.

mickthinks · #42 04-19-2008, 01:32 PM

... mick would link to the old threads where he's suffered [...] I'm getting the 's greatest comedy hits ...

Not quite, Adam. I linked to seebs' false accusation as evidence of his dishonesty. You've invented my suffering for a laugh.

How does that work? :chin:

Mick

LadyShea · #43 04-19-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisarea

If you're worried about it affecting Kiddo, do what you think is right, and don't worry about any commitments you made to the bio-dad. The Kiddo commitment trumps that.

In case you haven't figured it out, this is why I emailed you recently. This guy's not around enough to be any kind of strong influence. I do worry that Kiddo might have questions or concerns later, and the whole reason we did open adoption is so he can ask them directly. My commitment is more to maintain civil relations until he is old enough to do it himself (or not as the case may be, we won't force anything on him).

No problemo with the rest of his bio family (including this guys parents)...we all get along great and everyone seems to be comfortable in their roles.

Quote:

If you want to cut him off or limit his interactions in the interests of the kid, you should. Depending on how far gone bio-dad is, he'll either understand at some level, and accept his responsibility for it and possibly even do something to change his behaviors; or he will fail to acknowledge his role in the situation and blame you entirely, which is all the confirmation you need that your decision was the right one.

Most of the people he surrounds himself with are weak, or codependent, and allow him to abuse and take advantage of them. Just being ourselves is difficult for him, because trying to manipulate hubby is like trying to teach a pig to sing, and he is so "classic" I have been able to predict all his actions, down to predicting a phone call the day before it came. IOW, I am on to him.

Anyway, so far he has never done anything overtly, in our presence, worthy of cut off. He made some comments to Kiddo's first mom (before she cut him off completely, finally), and has tried to manipulate me into information about her after she stopped talking to him, and just been boneheaded and cloddish now that he has to talk to me directly(because he no longer has her as a go between), and I believe we may be headed towards a confrontation. OTOH I'm kinda thinking he may just stop communicating with us eventually instead of going there, since we don't offer him anything but a relationship with us and our kid and he's apparently intimidated by hubby.

Luckily Kiddo is so young he doesn't know what's going on. This guy hasn't made much of an impression on him...Kiddo spontaneously talks/asks about the guy's parents and sister and other people who have visited us, but never once has mentioned his name when he's not here.

BTW Ensign Steve, just to bring it back to YOU...Kiddo suddenly decided his "Soorfer Baby" must be with him at all times

JamesBannon · #44 04-19-2008, 09:39 PM

I'd rather avoid talking to narcissists if I can do so. Otherwise I just be polite if that's possible.

Ensign Steve · #45 04-20-2008, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Kiddo suddenly decided his "Soorfer Baby" must be with him at all times

Awesome!

You guys been to the beach much this summer spring?

LadyShea · #46 04-20-2008, 02:48 PM

Nah, we went and flew a kite a few days, but it hasn't been consistently warm enough. We tried to have a picnic at Gulf State Park for Easter and it was so windy at the beach we had to come back to the house.

mickthinks · #47 04-22-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seebs

Oh, great. Six years from now, mickthinks will be showing up unannounced at parties claiming that viscousmemories claims to have a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder.

Having run away again from the direct confrontation over your "I have seen you on multiple occasions" false testimony, you're reduced to what Brimshack condemns as 'goading'. It doesn't look good, seebs.