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  #6751  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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These are important unknowns that the studies haven't proven.
Indeed! No studies have proven, for instance, that seat belts do not cause diabetes!
It is worse than that, even. Death belts are not like vaccines, which are subject to a rigorous regulatory approval regime that requires voluminous clinical trial evidence. Not even close: THERE HAVE BEEN NO PLACEBO-CONTROLLED RANDOMIZED CLINICAL TRIALS OF DEATH BELTS AT ALL. Not a single one! How can parents be informed about the benefits and risks of death belts if the risks and benefits have never been studied???!

And when we do look at the evidence, we see clear correlations that cannot just be dismissed! Look at the Oman evidence I have posted in this thread, for example. Look at Maturin's compelling anecdotal observations! Mothers love their children after all, and mothers are the ones who observe these things! peacegirl, do you just reject motherly love completely?

Death belt manufacturers don't disclose the risks on the label. All I am asking is that mothers like me be given enough information to make a CHOICE, especially given the growing consensus about the undeniable correlation between death belt use and autism rates and diabetes prevalence. I should not be forced to sacrifice MY CHILD so the death belt manufacturers can get rich!
As smart as you think you are in your ridiculous analogies, it only highlights your lack of objectivity. Anyone who is not a slave to your antics will see this in two seconds flat. I cannot spend more time with you on this issue.
peacegirl, I have already told you: death belts kill and injure far more children than vaccines!

The safety and efficacy of vaccines is established beyond any reasonable scientific doubt by voluminous supportive clinical evidence. That is not the case with death belts. There have been ZERO placebo-controlled clinical trials of death belts, despite the undeniable correlations between seat belt use and rates of autism and diabetes that I have shown here. I see you can't refute those either!

Just look at the Oman case, peacegirl. What do you say to that? How can you continue to blindly advocate for death belts in view of that? Every mother like me, who loves her child, can see that the science is not settled and this controversy is only growing. There is a growing consensus that death belts are very dangerous and all I am asking for, as a mother, is that I have a CHOICE about whether to bind my child up in a dangerous death belt. It is only fair that I should be able to make that CHOICE based on the risks and benefits, and yet the death belt manufacturers do not have to disclose the risks to parents! You only ever hear about how great death belts are, and they cover up the risks. They have not even done a single placebo-controlled clinical trial!

peacegirl, have you even watched these videos or read these articles? You can't refute them! So you just run away from the debate, all the while forcing loving mothers like me to sacrifice MY CHILD at the altar of the death belt industry. Well, peacegirl, when you prattle on about the benefits of death belts, it is not up to you to decide that MY CHILD should be the one to die or get autism or diabetes from a death belt.

Seat Belt Accident Lands Six-Year-Old In Hospital - Seat Belt Safety






https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4818312/

SEATBELT INJURIES OF THE SPINE AND ABDOMEN

Car Accident Injuries Caused by Seat Belts | by Nolo

Seat Belt injuries in a Car accident | Can seat belts cause injury

https://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv/esv16/98s6w25.pdf

The Hidden Dangers of Seat Belts

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10835054

Knoxville Seat Belt Injury Lawyer | Seat Belt Injuries

Seatbelt Dangers for Older Drivers

Jacoby & Meyers Law Offices | Jacoby and Meyers Law Offices

Seat Belt injuries

The Hidden Danger of Seat Belts - TIME

Can seatbelts kill you? | HowStuffWorks

WHY SEATBELTS SHOULD NOT BE INSTALLED ON LARGE SCHOOL BUSES

Seatbelts Cause More Pedestrian And Cyclist Deaths | Libertarian News

Adult Seat Belts Don't Keep Children Safe

Little-Known Seat Belt Danger Could Be Deadly CBS Boston

Seat Belts killed these people

The Illusion of Safety
There is the other side, but statistically the benefits of strapping children in still outweigh the risks in most situations which is why we don't see the kind of backlash that we see with vaccines where the benefit to risk ratio is far from settled.
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  #6752  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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There is the other side, but statistically the benefits of strapping children in still outweigh the risks in most situations
There has never been a placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial demonstrating that! peacegirl, you and the big death belt manufacturers SAY that but you have no proof! There has never been a single placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial of death belts!!! They are not like vaccines, which have enormous amounts of clinical trial data demonstrating their safety and efficacy. Death belts do not even have warning labels to warn loving mothers of the risks! peacegirl, how can you expect loving mothers like me to make decisions about binding their child in a death belt if the risks are not disclosed? You just want to condemn MY CHILD to be sacrificed for no reason. peacegirl, you cannot ignore the correlations between death belt use and diabetes and autism that I have shown here. Just look at the case of Oman, peacegirl - how do you explain that?

peacegirl, did you watch the videos I posted for you? Did you read the articles about the dangers of death belts? Because you haven't refuted them. We know you can't.
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  #6753  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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I have no problem with making seatbelts a law to get as much compliance as possible . . . .
Well now, that wasn't so hard, was it? So your answer to yesterday's question is yes, the government should legislatively override the child safety decisions of parents who, in good faith and in reasonable reliance on the large and continually growing body of evidence (some of which Chuck has cited over the past couple of days) that seat belts and car seats are dangerous in multiple ways, decline to use those devices on their children.
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  #6754  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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I have no problem with making seatbelts a law to get as much compliance as possible . . . .
Well now, that wasn't so hard, was it? So your answer to yesterday's question is yes, the government should legislatively override the child safety decisions of parents who, in good faith and in reasonable reliance on the large and continually growing body of evidence (some of which Chuck has cited over the past couple of days) that seat belts and car seats are dangerous in multiple ways, decline to use those devices on their children.
No Maturin, your phony analogy is still a phony analogy. You could never admit you're wrong because you can't see your own inherent bias!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inherent_bias
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  #6755  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

peacegirl, you are making a huge assumption that death belts saved the world, which the graphs I posted contradicted.
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  #6756  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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peacegirl, you are making a huge assumption that death belts saved the world, which the graphs I posted contradicted.
May the best graph win!
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  #6757  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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I have no problem with making seatbelts a law to get as much compliance as possible . . . .
Well now, that wasn't so hard, was it? So your answer to yesterday's question is yes, the government should legislatively override the child safety decisions of parents who, in good faith and in reasonable reliance on the large and continually growing body of evidence (some of which Chuck has cited over the past couple of days) that seat belts and car seats are dangerous in multiple ways, decline to use those devices on their children.
No Maturin, your phony analogy is still a phony analogy. You could never admit you're wrong because you can't see your own inherent bias!

Inherent bias - Wikipedia
peacegirl, you wrote just this morning that you're A-OK with mandatory death belt legislation. Are you backtracking yet again?
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  #6758  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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peacegirl, you are making a huge assumption that death belts saved the world, which the graphs I posted contradicted.
May the best graph win!
peacegirl, while you are preoccupied with which graph "wins," I am a loving mother who is more concerned about MY CHILD not being condemned to die or get autism or diabetes in one of your killer death belts.

peacegirl, you haven't even tried to refute the correlation between death between use and diabetes and autism prevalence. You know you can't. You haven't even tried to address the Oman evidence. There is a growing consensus that the death belts you want to force on loving mothers like me are deadly.

The evidence speaks for itself:


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  #6759  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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I have no problem with making seatbelts a law to get as much compliance as possible . . . .
Well now, that wasn't so hard, was it? So your answer to yesterday's question is yes, the government should legislatively override the child safety decisions of parents who, in good faith and in reasonable reliance on the large and continually growing body of evidence (some of which Chuck has cited over the past couple of days) that seat belts and car seats are dangerous in multiple ways, decline to use those devices on their children.
No Maturin, your phony analogy is still a phony analogy. You could never admit you're wrong because you can't see your own inherent bias!

Inherent bias - Wikipedia
peacegirl, you wrote just this morning that you're A-OK with mandatory death belt legislation. Are you backtracking yet again?
You coined the term "death belt" legislation. I gave my reasons why there's no backlash in contrast to the growing backlash when it comes to mandatory vaccinations
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  #6760  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Hey guys, should I be worried that, in addition to being a better peacegirl than peacegirl in my Revolution in Thought Thread, I am a better peacegirl than peacegirl in this thread too? Because...I am a little worried.
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  #6761  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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I gave my reasons why there's no backlash in contrast to the growing backlash when it comes to mandatory vaccinations
Of course there's a backlash under way with regard to government abrogating parental rights via mandatory seat belt legislation. The slick, decades-old propaganda campaign of the death belt industry and their faithful toadies in government has been extraordinarily effective, but information wants to be free. The truth is getting out and people are taking notice.

Just because you can't see the backlash doesn't mean it isn't there. Your disregard for the rights of parents in the "minority" will not win in the long run.
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  #6762  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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You coined the term "death belt" legislation. I gave my reasons why there's no backlash in contrast to the growing backlash when it comes to mandatory vaccinations
peacegirl, do you think that just because most parents continue to use death belts (because they have not been educated about the risks of death belts and are unaware of the risks - they do not know that there has never been a single placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial on death belts!), that makes death belts safe?

Because, you know, peacegirl, MMR coverage is over 91%. That's actually higher than seat belt usage. So more parents reject dangerous death belts than safe and effective vaccines. :nod:
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  #6763  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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peacegirl, while you are preoccupied with which graph "wins," I am a loving mother who is more concerned about MY CHILD not being condemned to die or get autism or diabetes in one of your killer death belts.
I dunno. I mean, peacegirl is an admitted liar who's repeatedly say that lying is "justified" when is suits her purposes, but I always believed she was telling the truth about being a mother. In light of the voluminous contempt she's displayed in recent days for the rights and safety judgments of mothers who happen to find themselves in the "minority," I'm not so sure anymore. :sadcheer:
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  #6764  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Hey guys, should I be worried that, in addition to being a better peacegirl than peacegirl in my Revolution in Thought Thread, I am a better peacegirl than peacegirl in this thread too? Because...I am a little worried.
You think too highly of yourself!
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  #6765  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Hey guys, should I be worried that, in addition to being a better peacegirl than peacegirl in my Revolution in Thought Thread, I am a better peacegirl than peacegirl in this thread too? Because...I am a little worried.
You think too highly of yourself!
:unnope: Exactly the opposite, I'm afraid. You are an ignorant parasite, peacegirl, and I find that I am a somewhat gifted ignorant parasite simulator. That's why I'm worried! Like what if I took a month or so vacation and by the end of it I'm a daydrinking layabout?
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  #6766  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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You coined the term "death belt" legislation. I gave my reasons why there's no backlash in contrast to the growing backlash when it comes to mandatory vaccinations
peacegirl, do you think that just because most parents continue to use death belts (because they have not been educated about the risks of death belts and are unaware of the risks - they do not know that there has never been a single placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial on death belts!), that makes death belts safe?
You will not accept that your assumptions regarding the latest vaccine schedule (without recognizing any downside except by a small minority) causes you to overrate their benefit and downplay their harm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Because, you know, peacegirl, MMR coverage is over 91%. That's actually higher than seat belt usage. So more parents reject dangerous death belts than safe and effective vaccines. :nod:
I don't see them clamoring for seatbelt choice on youtube and social media as they are for vaccine choice. Why is that?
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  #6767  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Hey guys, should I be worried that, in addition to being a better peacegirl than peacegirl in my Revolution in Thought Thread, I am a better peacegirl than peacegirl in this thread too? Because...I am a little worried.
You think too highly of yourself!
:unnope: Exactly the opposite, I'm afraid. You are an ignorant parasite, peacegirl, and I find that I am a somewhat gifted ignorant parasite simulator. That's why I'm worried! Like what if I took a month or so vacation and by the end of it I'm a daydrinking layabout?
You are an ignorant fool that will never budge because you think your intelligence is beyond reproach! Well guess what? It isn't. It's full of holes, including your brain matter. :biglaugh:
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  #6768  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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I don't see them clamoring for seatbelt choice on youtube and social media as they are for vaccine choice. Why is that?
peacegirl, it is because you refuse to look! peacegirl, have you watched all of the YouTube videos and read the articles I have posted here about how dangerous death belts are? Have you seen the correlation between death belt usage and the prevalence of autism and diabetes? You cannot refute this evidence, peacegirl!!

Quote:
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peacegirl, I have already told you: death belts kill and injure far more children than vaccines!

The safety and efficacy of vaccines is established beyond any reasonable scientific doubt by voluminous supportive clinical evidence. That is not the case with death belts. There have been ZERO placebo-controlled clinical trials of death belts, despite the undeniable correlations between seat belt use and rates of autism and diabetes that I have shown here. I see you can't refute those either!

Just look at the Oman case, peacegirl. What do you say to that? How can you continue to blindly advocate for death belts in view of that? Every mother like me, who loves her child, can see that the science is not settled and this controversy is only growing. There is a growing consensus that death belts are very dangerous and all I am asking for, as a mother, is that I have a CHOICE about whether to bind my child up in a dangerous death belt. It is only fair that I should be able to make that CHOICE based on the risks and benefits, and yet the death belt manufacturers do not have to disclose the risks to parents! You only ever hear about how great death belts are, and they cover up the risks. They have not even done a single placebo-controlled clinical trial!

peacegirl, have you even watched these videos or read these articles? You can't refute them! So you just run away from the debate, all the while forcing loving mothers like me to sacrifice MY CHILD at the altar of the death belt industry. Well, peacegirl, when you prattle on about the benefits of death belts, it is not up to you to decide that MY CHILD should be the one to die or get autism or diabetes from a death belt.

Seat Belt Accident Lands Six-Year-Old In Hospital - Seat Belt Safety

Buffalo Car Accident Doctor Discusses Seat Belt Injuries - YouTube

Seat Belt Injuries - YouTube

Brain Injury Caused by a Defective Seatbelt - YouTube

Car seat belt causes serious injuries *زا… ا„ا…ا† ‚د Šسبب اصابات خطŠرة - YouTube

Seat Belt Injuries - YouTube

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4818312/

SEATBELT INJURIES OF THE SPINE AND ABDOMEN

Car Accident Injuries Caused by Seat Belts | by Nolo

Seat Belt injuries in a Car accident | Can seat belts cause injury

https://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv/esv16/98s6w25.pdf

The Hidden Dangers of Seat Belts

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10835054

Knoxville Seat Belt Injury Lawyer | Seat Belt Injuries

Seatbelt Dangers for Older Drivers

Jacoby & Meyers Law Offices | Jacoby and Meyers Law Offices

Seat Belt injuries

The Hidden Danger of Seat Belts - TIME

Can seatbelts kill you? | HowStuffWorks

WHY SEATBELTS SHOULD NOT BE INSTALLED ON LARGE SCHOOL BUSES

Seatbelts Cause More Pedestrian And Cyclist Deaths | Libertarian News

Adult Seat Belts Don't Keep Children Safe

Little-Known Seat Belt Danger Could Be Deadly CBS Boston

Seat Belts killed these people

The Illusion of Safety
peacegirl, you will not accept that your assumptions regarding the use death belts (without recognizing any downside except by a small minority) causes you to overrate their benefit and downplay their harm!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You are an ignorant fool that will never budge because you think your intelligence is beyond reproach! Well guess what? It isn't. It's full of holes, including your brain matter. :biglaugh:
:lol: Ok, with a ten foot pole. But I don't want to give the impression that it takes much brain power to simulate your ignorant parasitism. It really doesn't; you just make up dumb shit and post it, and remember to include a phrase about mothers and MY CHILD.
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  #6769  
Old 05-04-2017, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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I have been very ill since 1997 with adrenal insufficiency, immune dysfunction, tinnitus, fibromyalgia (debilitating muscle pain) and many other related symptoms which are too numerous to mention.
peacegirl, I'm curious: do you buckle up?
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  #6770  
Old 05-04-2017, 06:28 PM
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peacegirl peacegirl is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
I don't see them clamoring for seatbelt choice on youtube and social media as they are for vaccine choice. Why is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
peacegirl, it is because you refuse to look! peacegirl, have you watched all of the YouTube videos and read the articles I have posted here about how dangerous death belts are? Have you seen the correlation between death belt usage and the prevalence of autism and diabetes? You cannot refute this evidence, peacegirl!
No I haven't seen any correlation between seatbelt use, diabetes and autism but there is a definite correlation between vaccines and autism.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
peacegirl, I have already told you: death belts kill and injure far more children than vaccines!

The safety and efficacy of vaccines is established beyond any reasonable scientific doubt by voluminous supportive clinical evidence.
Institute of Medicine Admission

The Institute of Medicine admits that the current vaccination schedule has not being researched to determine whether or not it is safe. Their 2013 Report makes the following statements:
“studies designed to examine the long term effects of the cumulative number of vaccines . . . have not been conducted.”
“existing research has not been designed to test the entire immunization schedule.”
“the committee generally found a paucity of information that addressed the risk of adverse events in association with the complete recommended immunization schedule.”
These are the scientists, government entities, and pharmaceutical companies who “Settled the Science.” When we are dealing with the highly complex human body and the reality that every individual reacts differently to medical interventions, especially pharmaceutical products, the science can never really be “settled.”



Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
That is not the case with death belts. There have been ZERO placebo-controlled clinical trials of death belts, despite the undeniable correlations between seat belt use and rates of autism and diabetes that I have shown here. I see you can't refute those either!
There is enough evidence from years and years of death statistics to prove that more people survive when wearing a seatbelt than when not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Just look at the Oman case, peacegirl. What do you say to that? How can you continue to blindly advocate for death belts in view of that? Every mother like me, who loves her child, can see that the science is not settled and this controversy is only growing. There is a growing consensus that death belts are very dangerous and all I am asking for, as a mother, is that I have a CHOICE about whether to bind my child up in a dangerous death belt. It is only fair that I should be able to make that CHOICE based on the risks and benefits, and yet the death belt manufacturers do not have to disclose the risks to parents! You only ever hear about how great death belts are, and they cover up the risks. They have not even done a single placebo-controlled clinical trial!
Where is the controversy growing in the Oman case? It is quite easy to look at that stats of seatbelt use to see how many people survived in a serious crash, just like you can see how many people survived a fire due to smoke alarms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
peacegirl, have you even watched these videos or read these articles? You can't refute them! So you just run away from the debate, all the while forcing loving mothers like me to sacrifice MY CHILD at the altar of the death belt industry. Well, peacegirl, when you prattle on about the benefits of death belts, it is not up to you to decide that MY CHILD should be the one to die or get autism or diabetes from a death belt.
You're right, it's not up to me. I'm not forcing you to do anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Seat Belt Accident Lands Six-Year-Old In Hospital - Seat Belt Safety

Buffalo Car Accident Doctor Discusses Seat Belt Injuries - YouTube

Seat Belt Injuries - YouTube

Brain Injury Caused by a Defective Seatbelt - YouTube

Car seat belt causes serious injuries *زا… ا„ا…ا† ‚د Šسبب اصابات خطŠرة - YouTube

Seat Belt Injuries - YouTube

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4818312/

SEATBELT INJURIES OF THE SPINE AND ABDOMEN

Car Accident Injuries Caused by Seat Belts | by Nolo

Seat Belt injuries in a Car accident | Can seat belts cause injury

https://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv/esv16/98s6w25.pdf

The Hidden Dangers of Seat Belts

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10835054

Knoxville Seat Belt Injury Lawyer | Seat Belt Injuries

Seatbelt Dangers for Older Drivers

Jacoby & Meyers Law Offices | Jacoby and Meyers Law Offices

Seat Belt injuries

The Hidden Danger of Seat Belts - TIME

Can seatbelts kill you? | HowStuffWorks

WHY SEATBELTS SHOULD NOT BE INSTALLED ON LARGE SCHOOL BUSES

Seatbelts Cause More Pedestrian And Cyclist Deaths | Libertarian News

Adult Seat Belts Don't Keep Children Safe

Little-Known Seat Belt Danger Could Be Deadly CBS Boston

Seat Belts killed these people

The Illusion of Safety
There are two sides, but most parents would choose to strap their child in even without legislation because the benefits (according to statistics) still outweigh the risks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
peacegirl, you will not accept that your assumptions regarding the use death belts (without recognizing any downside except by a small minority) causes you to overrate their benefit and downplay their harm!!
The downside is very small even though when they do happen (due to the positioning of the belt or a design flaw) it is very sad. Most parents would still use seatbelts with these known risks because, in most serious accidents, they save lives. The human body is a different ballgame altogether chuck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You are an ignorant fool that will never budge because you think your intelligence is beyond reproach! Well guess what? It isn't. It's full of holes, including your brain matter. :biglaugh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
:lol: Ok, with a ten foot pole. But I don't want to give the impression that it takes much brain power to simulate your ignorant parasitism. It really doesn't; you just make up dumb shit and post it, and remember to include a phrase about mothers and MY CHILD.
I have to use MY child in the examples I give because I'm talking about the reasons for the choices I make. I can't talk about YOUR child because I don't have any experience or authority discussing YOUR child. Parents can easily substitute my name and replace it with theirs to put themselves in my place.
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"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
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  #6771  
Old 05-04-2017, 06:34 PM
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ChuckF ChuckF is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
There is enough evidence from years and years of death statistics to prove that more people survive when wearing a seatbelt than when not.
peacegirl, can you show me the statistics? Where are they? Where are the randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials that show that death belts are "safe"? If it's so easy, why can't you prove that death belts are 100% safe?
Quote:
Where is the controversy growing in the Oman case?
Right here, peacegirl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
peacegirl, I want to show you some amazing data that should make you question your blind defense of the profiteering death belt industry, and really consider the data on both sides of the issue.

First, let's look at the Library of Congress report on Child Restraint and Seat Belt Regulations in Selected Countries. We learn the following about Oman:
Quote:
Decree 23 of 1998, issued by the Chief of Police, provides in an annex entitled “Infractions of Safety Measures” (Mukhālafāt Ijrā’āt al-Salāma) that drivers and passengers in the front seat of a vehicle who do not wear seat belts are in violation of traffic regulations. This Decree does not require children to wear seat belts.
(emphasis added) (Here is the relevant decree in Arabic.)

Now, peacegirl, keeping this in mind, let's look at the peer-reviewed article by Al-Farsi YM1, Al-Sharbati MM, et al.Brief report: Prevalence of autistic spectrum disorders in the Sultanate of Oman, J Autism Dev Disord. 2011 Jun;41(6):821-5:
Quote:
Prevalence of autistic spectrum disorders (ASD) in Oman is unknown. We conducted a cross-sectional study to estimate the prevalence of ASD among 0-14 year old children. Diagnoses were made as per DSM-IV-TR criteria and supplemented with information collected with the standard Childhood Autism Rating Scale (CARS) questionnaire. A total 113 cases of ASD were enumerated nationwide, indicating an overall prevalence of 1.4 (95% CI 1.2, 1.7) cases per 10,000 children aged 0-14 years.
1.4 cases per 10,000 peacegirl!! This is less than 1/10 the prevalence rate in the United States!

peacegirl, do you seriously expect me, as a mother who loves MY CHILD, to believe that the correlation between the extremely low autism prevalence rate in Oman and the fact that children do not have to wear death belts in Oman is just some kind of coincidence? Mothers in Oman love their children too - enough to know not to wrap them up in death belts!!

peacegirl you need to open your eyes to the dangers of death belts and watch some of the YouTube videos I have posted for you.
Quote:
It is quite easy to look at that stats of seatbelt use to see how many people survived in a serious crash, just like you can see how many people survived a fire due to smoke alarms.
peacegirl, where are the statistics? If it's so easy to see, show us the statistics! Where are the randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials on death belts, peacegirl???

Quote:
There are two sides, but most parents would choose to strap their child in even without legislation because the benefits (according to statistics) still outweigh the risks.
peacegirl, how can parents make that decision when the risks of death belts aren't even disclosed?! There haven't been any randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials on death belts, and death belt manufacturers are not even required to disclose the correlation between death belt usage and autism and diabetes prevalence. peacegirl, how can parents make an informed choice without information about these risks???

Anyway, peacegirl, more parents give their children MMR vaccines than people use death belts. peacegirl, don't you think parents know what they're doing? They know that death belts are more dangerous than vaccines!

Quote:
I have to use MY child in the examples I give because I'm talking about the reasons for the choices I make. I can't talk about YOUR child because I don't have any experience or authority discussing YOUR child. Parents can easily substitute my name and replace it with theirs to put themselves in my place.
peacegirl, when I speak as a mother about MY CHILD, I am speaking for all mothers who love their children, and MY CHILD is a symbol of all children. Because I love MY CHILD, I know that death belts kill children. I don't see how you can dispute that, do you? Just because you don't love your child enough to care about binding your child in a death belt to get autism or diabetes or even killed doesn't mean that motherly love doesn't exist, peacegirl.
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  #6772  
Old 05-04-2017, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
I have no problem with making seatbelts a law to get as much compliance as possible . . . .
Well now, that wasn't so hard, was it? So your answer to yesterday's question is yes, the government should legislatively override the child safety decisions of parents who, in good faith and in reasonable reliance on the large and continually growing body of evidence (some of which Chuck has cited over the past couple of days) that seat belts and car seats are dangerous in multiple ways, decline to use those devices on their children.
No Maturin, your phony analogy is still a phony analogy. You could never admit you're wrong because you can't see your own inherent bias!

Inherent bias - Wikipedia
peacegirl, you wrote just this morning that you're A-OK with mandatory death belt legislation. Are you backtracking yet again?
The bias in favor of vaccines using seatbelts as a comparison doesn't work. I am not opposed to legislation regarding seatbelts because there are more lives saved than not, especially when seatbelts are used correctly. If the fear of getting a ticket motivates a parent to use seatbelts, I am not in opposition, but you cannot compare this to vaccines. Here is an excerpt from one of the links chuck gave.

So, why do some people think that seatbelts can hurt you? One common belief is that a seatbelt might trap you in a car that's on fire or underwater. However, car accidents in which the car is on fire or submerged in water account for less than one half of 1 percent of all car crashes [source: Just Drive PA]. When you think about it, wearing a seatbelt greatly decreases your chance of being hurt or knocked unconscious in an accident, which would actually help you escape from a burning or submerged car.

Seatbelts work by holding you in place in an accident, and as a result, yes, they will exert some force in a crash. That force can lead to bruising, but that pales in comparison to the types of injuries you'd face if you were ejected from the car or if you were tossed around inside it. Injuries caused by seatbelts are relatively rare and often the result of improper use. There are some people — like children, very small adults and pregnant women — who do need to take special precautions to make sure they're using a seatbelt safely; but, for most people, it's as simple as hopping in the car, buckling up and hitting the road.

Can seatbelts kill you? | HowStuffWorks




__________________
"We will not solve the problems of the world from the level of thinking we were at when we created them" -- Einstein

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
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  #6773  
Old 05-04-2017, 06:56 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
There is enough evidence from years and years of death statistics to prove that more people survive when wearing a seatbelt than when not.
peacegirl, can you show me the statistics? Where are they? Where are the randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials that show that death belts are "safe"? If it's so easy, why can't you prove that death belts are 100% safe?
Quote:
Where is the controversy growing in the Oman case?
Right here, peacegirl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
peacegirl, I want to show you some amazing data that should make you question your blind defense of the profiteering death belt industry, and really consider the data on both sides of the issue.

First, let's look at the Library of Congress report on Child Restraint and Seat Belt Regulations in Selected Countries. We learn the following about Oman:
Quote:
Decree 23 of 1998, issued by the Chief of Police, provides in an annex entitled “Infractions of Safety Measures” (Mukhālafāt Ijrā’āt al-Salāma) that drivers and passengers in the front seat of a vehicle who do not wear seat belts are in violation of traffic regulations. This Decree does not require children to wear seat belts.
(emphasis added) (Here is the relevant decree in Arabic.)

Now, peacegirl, keeping this in mind, let's look at the peer-reviewed article by Al-Farsi YM1, Al-Sharbati MM, et al.Brief report: Prevalence of autistic spectrum disorders in the Sultanate of Oman, J Autism Dev Disord. 2011 Jun;41(6):821-5:
Quote:
Prevalence of autistic spectrum disorders (ASD) in Oman is unknown. We conducted a cross-sectional study to estimate the prevalence of ASD among 0-14 year old children. Diagnoses were made as per DSM-IV-TR criteria and supplemented with information collected with the standard Childhood Autism Rating Scale (CARS) questionnaire. A total 113 cases of ASD were enumerated nationwide, indicating an overall prevalence of 1.4 (95% CI 1.2, 1.7) cases per 10,000 children aged 0-14 years.
1.4 cases per 10,000 peacegirl!! This is less than 1/10 the prevalence rate in the United States!

peacegirl, do you seriously expect me, as a mother who loves MY CHILD, to believe that the correlation between the extremely low autism prevalence rate in Oman and the fact that children do not have to wear death belts in Oman is just some kind of coincidence? Mothers in Oman love their children too - enough to know not to wrap them up in death belts!!

peacegirl you need to open your eyes to the dangers of death belts and watch some of the YouTube videos I have posted for you.
Quote:
It is quite easy to look at that stats of seatbelt use to see how many people survived in a serious crash, just like you can see how many people survived a fire due to smoke alarms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
peacegirl, where are the statistics? If it's so easy to see, show us the statistics! Where are the randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials on death belts, peacegirl???
Finding a randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials is difficult when most everyone wears seatbelts. The following statement that this politician made was misleading.

R.I. Rep. Trillo says 30,000 people have died because they used seat belts | PolitiFact Rhode Island

Quote:
There are two sides, but most parents would choose to strap their child in even without legislation because the benefits (according to statistics) still outweigh the risks.
peacegirl, how can parents make that decision when the risks of death belts aren't even disclosed?! There haven't been any randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials on death belts, and death belt manufacturers are not even required to disclose the correlation between death belt usage and autism and diabetes prevalence. peacegirl, how can parents make an informed choice without information about these risks???

Anyway, peacegirl, more parents give their children MMR vaccines than people use death belts. peacegirl, don't you think parents know what they're doing? They know that death belts are more dangerous than vaccines!

Quote:
I have to use MY child in the examples I give because I'm talking about the reasons for the choices I make. I can't talk about YOUR child because I don't have any experience or authority discussing YOUR child. Parents can easily substitute my name and replace it with theirs to put themselves in my place.
peacegirl, when I speak as a mother about MY CHILD, I am speaking for all mothers who love their children, and MY CHILD is a symbol of all children.
My child is not a symbol for all children. My child can be looked at as an example coming from a mother's eyes. When I say MY child, you can insert YOUR child into the sentence to make it your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Because I love MY CHILD, I know that death belts kill children. I don't see how you can dispute that, do you? Just because you don't love your child enough to care about binding your child in a death belt to get autism or diabetes or even killed doesn't mean that motherly love doesn't exist, peacegirl.
You're boring me. :yawn:
__________________
"We will not solve the problems of the world from the level of thinking we were at when we created them" -- Einstein

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill

Last edited by peacegirl; 05-04-2017 at 07:29 PM.
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  #6774  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:03 PM
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ChuckF ChuckF is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Here is an excerpt from one of the links chuck gave.

So, why do some people think that seatbelts can hurt you? One common belief is that a seatbelt might trap you in a car that's on fire or underwater. However, car accidents in which the car is on fire or submerged in water account for less than one half of 1 percent of all car crashes [source: Just Drive PA]. When you think about it, wearing a seatbelt greatly decreases your chance of being hurt or knocked unconscious in an accident, which would actually help you escape from a burning or submerged car.

Seatbelts work by holding you in place in an accident, and as a result, yes, they will exert some force in a crash. That force can lead to bruising, but that pales in comparison to the types of injuries you'd face if you were ejected from the car or if you were tossed around inside it. Injuries caused by seatbelts are relatively rare and often the result of improper use. There are some people — like children, very small adults and pregnant women — who do need to take special precautions to make sure they're using a seatbelt safely; but, for most people, it's as simple as hopping in the car, buckling up and hitting the road.

Can seatbelts kill you? | HowStuffWorks

If that is true, then great! This still does not justify forced death belt use or punishment for those who don't comply. That is the essence of this debate.

peacegirl, what you've quoted here is just an explanation (probably written by the death belt manufacturers) of how death belts supposedly work. It's not a placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial of death belts!

I mean, just look at the article from the same source on vaccines:

How Vaccines Work | HowStuffWorks

Quote:
MYTH: Vaccines cause autism.
TRUTH: "Study after study has shown that there is no link between vaccines and autism," says Angie Matthiessen with Children's Healthcare of Atlanta. This myth gained popularity when children were diagnosed with autism around the time that they received the MMR vaccine (around 18 months of age), according to Joyce Allers, RN, also with Children's Healthcare of Atlanta. At the time, the mercury-containing preservative Thimerosol was being put in some vaccines -- although not the MMR vaccine -- to keep bacteria from growing, so many people connected that to autism. However, there still appears to be no link between previous use of Thimerosol and autism. Thimerosol was completely removed from all infant vaccines in the United States in 2001, yet autism rates continue to increase. Thimerosol is currently present only in minute amounts in the influenza vaccine.

There are also Thimerosol-free influenza vaccines.
MYTH: Vaccines aren't necessary anymore because all the diseases are gone anyway.
TRUTH: According to the CDC, if we stopped vaccinating, many diseases that are largely unknown would come back with a vengeance. The only vaccine-preventable disease that's been completely wiped out is smallpox. "These diseases are coming into our country, into our schools and into our workplace," says Matthiessen. "Don't believe that your child is 100 percent protected because the disease isn't currently in the United States. International travel and adoption are two of the ways that dangerous diseases make their way into the country."

The Future of Vaccines
Vaccines are currently being developed for a myriad of diseases, including HIV/AIDS, cancer, the plague and even the common cold. Although it may be years before any of these vaccines make it to pharmacy shelves, their development is critical because as surely as we are able to destroy a particular disease another one is probably just around the corner. A list of potential new vaccines is available here.
MYTH: Babies are too fragile to get so many shots.
TRUTH: "A lot of young parents are worried about giving their babies so many shots, thinking that they will overwhelm their immune system," says Allers. "I tell them that as human beings we are exposed to disease all the time, like at the mall and church, so we can't overwhelm their systems." According to the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia's Vaccine Education Center, diseases often occur in very young infants, so the best way to prevent them is to give vaccines as soon as possible after birth. "We have a wonderful history of eliminating disease, but what worries us is all the good progress we've made is going to be diminished by families choosing their own vaccination schedule or choosing not to vaccinate at all," Allers says.

MYTH: A live vaccine can give me the disease it's supposed to prevent.
TRUTH: As we've discussed, live vaccines can cause extremely mild symptoms. However, experts agree that they are very minor and much better than coming down with the full-blown disease.
peacegirl, where is the evidence you mentioned? Where are the statistics? peacegirl, why can't you offer any evidence to support your defense of death belts, or rebut the evidence I have shown that death belts are killing children, and highly correlated with prevalence of autism and diabetes? You will find that over 91% of mothers love their children enough to have them vaccinated for MMR - more than people use death belts - because mothers who love their children know that vaccines are safer than death belts. peacegirl, are you denying that mothers know what is best for their children without being told?
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  #6775  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:39 PM
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peacegirl peacegirl is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Here is an excerpt from one of the links chuck gave.

So, why do some people think that seatbelts can hurt you? One common belief is that a seatbelt might trap you in a car that's on fire or underwater. However, car accidents in which the car is on fire or submerged in water account for less than one half of 1 percent of all car crashes [source: Just Drive PA]. When you think about it, wearing a seatbelt greatly decreases your chance of being hurt or knocked unconscious in an accident, which would actually help you escape from a burning or submerged car.

Seatbelts work by holding you in place in an accident, and as a result, yes, they will exert some force in a crash. That force can lead to bruising, but that pales in comparison to the types of injuries you'd face if you were ejected from the car or if you were tossed around inside it. Injuries caused by seatbelts are relatively rare and often the result of improper use. There are some people — like children, very small adults and pregnant women — who do need to take special precautions to make sure they're using a seatbelt safely; but, for most people, it's as simple as hopping in the car, buckling up and hitting the road.

Can seatbelts kill you? | HowStuffWorks

If that is true, then great! This still does not justify forced death belt use or punishment for those who don't comply. That is the essence of this debate.

peacegirl, what you've quoted here is just an explanation (probably written by the death belt manufacturers) of how death belts supposedly work. It's not a placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial of death belts!
The only way to have a controlled study is to compare the injury and death rates of those who wear seat belts and those who don't. The only state that does not legislate seat belt use is New Hampshire, and it looks like the death rate is rising.

The same goes for vaccines. The only way we can get a true picture is not through a controlled study which isolates one variable. We need to compare the vaccinated with the unvaccinated to see how each group does overall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
I mean, just look at the article from the same source on vaccines:

How Vaccines Work | HowStuffWorks

Quote:
MYTH: Vaccines cause autism.
TRUTH: "Study after study has shown that there is no link between vaccines and autism," says Angie Matthiessen with Children's Healthcare of Atlanta. This myth gained popularity when children were diagnosed with autism around the time that they received the MMR vaccine (around 18 months of age), according to Joyce Allers, RN, also with Children's Healthcare of Atlanta. At the time, the mercury-containing preservative Thimerosol was being put in some vaccines -- although not the MMR vaccine -- to keep bacteria from growing, so many people connected that to autism. However, there still appears to be no link between previous use of Thimerosol and autism. Thimerosol was completely removed from all infant vaccines in the United States in 2001, yet autism rates continue to increase. Thimerosol is currently present only in minute amounts in the influenza vaccine.

There are also Thimerosol-free influenza vaccines.
MYTH: Vaccines aren't necessary anymore because all the diseases are gone anyway.
TRUTH: According to the CDC, if we stopped vaccinating, many diseases that are largely unknown would come back with a vengeance. The only vaccine-preventable disease that's been completely wiped out is smallpox. "These diseases are coming into our country, into our schools and into our workplace," says Matthiessen. "Don't believe that your child is 100 percent protected because the disease isn't currently in the United States. International travel and adoption are two of the ways that dangerous diseases make their way into the country."

The Future of Vaccines
Vaccines are currently being developed for a myriad of diseases, including HIV/AIDS, cancer, the plague and even the common cold. Although it may be years before any of these vaccines make it to pharmacy shelves, their development is critical because as surely as we are able to destroy a particular disease another one is probably just around the corner. A list of potential new vaccines is available here.
MYTH: Babies are too fragile to get so many shots.
TRUTH: "A lot of young parents are worried about giving their babies so many shots, thinking that they will overwhelm their immune system," says Allers. "I tell them that as human beings we are exposed to disease all the time, like at the mall and church, so we can't overwhelm their systems." According to the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia's Vaccine Education Center, diseases often occur in very young infants, so the best way to prevent them is to give vaccines as soon as possible after birth. "We have a wonderful history of eliminating disease, but what worries us is all the good progress we've made is going to be diminished by families choosing their own vaccination schedule or choosing not to vaccinate at all," Allers says.

MYTH: A live vaccine can give me the disease it's supposed to prevent.
TRUTH: As we've discussed, live vaccines can cause extremely mild symptoms. However, experts agree that they are very minor and much better than coming down with the full-blown disease.
There is nothing factual about what was written. It's all propaganda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
peacegirl, where is the evidence you mentioned? Where are the statistics? peacegirl, why can't you offer any evidence to support your defense of death belts, or rebut the evidence I have shown that death belts are killing children, and highly correlated with prevalence of autism and diabetes? You will find that over 91% of mothers love their children enough to have them vaccinated for MMR - more than people use death belts - because mothers who love their children know that vaccines are safer than death belts. peacegirl, are you denying that mothers know what is best for their children without being told?
No matter how you slice it chuck, seatbelts, except in very rare cases, most people survive because they used seatbelts. This cannot be compared to vaccines. You can argue with me all you want but the truth is we don't know whether the same deadly diseases will reappear, nor do we know whether the use of so many vaccines isn't creating a more virulent form of the disease.

'Leaky Vaccines' Could Spur More Dangerous Disease

August 11, 2015

By Dr. Mercola

In 2001, Andrew Read, evolutionary biologist at Penn State University, and colleagues published a paper stating that imperfect vaccines, which protect the host from death but allow infection and disease transmission to other hosts, may actually trigger the evolution of more virulent forms of the disease.1

"Vaccines rarely provide full protection from disease," the study's abstract begins… and those that are imperfect or "leaky" may protect the host from succumbing to the disease while still allowing them to shed the virus into the community.

Ordinarily, a particularly lethal or "hot" virus is self-limiting because it will kill those it infects relatively quickly, before they have a chance to spread the virus to those around them. With leaky vaccines, this is no longer the case, as infected hosts may spread the lethal virus for weeks or more. In 2001, they wrote:2

"The subsequent evolution leads to higher levels of intrinsic virulence and hence to more severe disease in unvaccinated individuals. This evolution can erode any population-wide benefits such that overall mortality rates are unaffected, or even increase, with the level of vaccination coverage."

The 2001 study was based on a mathematical model, and it was met with criticism and controversy, as are most studies that point out the imperfect nature of vaccinations or call for more research.

Now, however, Dr. Read and his colleagues have further proof of their leaky vaccine theory, this time based on the spread of Marek’s disease in chickens.

'Leaky' Vaccines Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Virus Strains

cont. at: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-vaccines.aspx
__________________
"We will not solve the problems of the world from the level of thinking we were at when we created them" -- Einstein

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill

Last edited by peacegirl; 05-04-2017 at 07:59 PM.
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