#151  
Old 01-31-2017, 04:19 PM
Zehava's Avatar
Zehava Zehava is offline
Captain #EmbraceTheImpossible
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sandy, Oregon
Gender: Male
Posts: MMDCCCXXXVIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 151
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
I read that too and it sure is scary. Let's hope it is an overreaction, and they are merely privileged, self-serving buffoons seeking to enrich themselves.
They are privileged, self-serving buffoons seeking to enrich themselves by controlling every channel of power they can and grabbing all the resources they can. They don't think there's anything wrong with it and they won't stop unless they are forced to stop.
It is a new age of Robber Barons but with a complicit government urging them on, a Kleptocracy.

It is a descent into government owned and operated by corporations, a theme well established in the Cyberpunk genre. Welcome to the new world, Chummer.
__________________
The best way to make America great is to lower the standards!
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Pan Narrans (01-31-2017), SR71 (01-31-2017), Stormlight (01-31-2017), The Man (01-31-2017), Vivisectus (01-31-2017)
  #152  
Old 01-31-2017, 04:23 PM
The Lone Ranger's Avatar
The Lone Ranger The Lone Ranger is offline
Jin, Gi, Rei, Ko, Chi, Shin, Tei
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: MXDXCIX
Images: 523
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zehava View Post
It is a descent into government owned and operated by corporations, a theme well established in the Cyberpunk genre. Welcome to the new world, Chummer.
Yeah, we've been going down that road for quite some time now. Trump's just making it official policy.
__________________
“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.”
-- Socrates
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
JoeP (01-31-2017), Sock Puppet (01-31-2017), SR71 (01-31-2017), Stormlight (01-31-2017), The Man (01-31-2017), Vivisectus (01-31-2017), Watser? (02-01-2017), Zehava (01-31-2017)
  #153  
Old 01-31-2017, 04:29 PM
Kael's Avatar
Kael Kael is offline
the internet says I'm right
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCDXLV
Blog Entries: 11
Images: 23
Default Re: Good King Trump

Which seems like a good demonstration of just how important the gap between "getting that way" and "official policy" can be.
__________________
For Science!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Dragar (01-31-2017), JoeP (01-31-2017), Sock Puppet (01-31-2017), SR71 (01-31-2017), The Lone Ranger (01-31-2017), The Man (01-31-2017), Zehava (01-31-2017)
  #154  
Old 01-31-2017, 05:36 PM
beyelzu's Avatar
beyelzu beyelzu is offline
simple country microbiologist hyperchicken
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: georgia
Posts: XMVDCXXXV
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 8
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Sadly, you're probably right. Regardless, having things like this delayed is nonetheless at least a small victory, because it makes the administration look weak, and optics are important in resisting fascism.

Also:




Again: lol.

I also agree with Cole's rant at Congressional Republicans here:

Get Used to It, Dahling – Balloon Juice

Quote:
Oh you poor fucking dears. However mad you are, I bet you aren’t as pissed off as the people being detained and having every cavity finger-fucked by Trump’s CPB STASI. Not to mention, you probably shouldn’t have spent the last sixteen years villifying muslims, you twats.
Given the rarity of actual voter fraud, I think we should be happy that Trump got at least one expert on the thing that they are supposed to be in charge of.
__________________
:blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :steve: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Crumb (01-31-2017), Stormlight (01-31-2017), The Lone Ranger (01-31-2017), The Man (01-31-2017)
  #155  
Old 01-31-2017, 05:43 PM
beyelzu's Avatar
beyelzu beyelzu is offline
simple country microbiologist hyperchicken
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: georgia
Posts: XMVDCXXXV
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 8
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamilah Hauptmann View Post
Y'all hurting for positive news?

ACLU racks up $24.1 million in donations over weekend - Jan. 30, 2017

An ordinary year, they get about $4 million.
I stole this for facebook. er, I mean, I helped spread the word.

After I clicked on the link and started reading the article, the autopplayed video was really good, so I listened to it. It made me sad however when they brought in a reporter from Turkey and one from Russia to be experts on how fascist assholes deal with the Press. The title at the bottom of the video was "How the Press Operates in Authoritarian Climates"
__________________
:blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :steve: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss: :beloved: :blowkiss:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Stormlight (01-31-2017), The Lone Ranger (01-31-2017), The Man (01-31-2017)
  #156  
Old 01-31-2017, 06:30 PM
slimshady2357's Avatar
slimshady2357 slimshady2357 is offline
forever in search of dill pickle doritos
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: VMLXXIV
Blog Entries: 6
Images: 52
Default Re: Good King Trump


__________________
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
The Man (01-31-2017)
  #157  
Old 01-31-2017, 07:32 PM
slimshady2357's Avatar
slimshady2357 slimshady2357 is offline
forever in search of dill pickle doritos
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: VMLXXIV
Blog Entries: 6
Images: 52
Default Re: Good King Trump

Not sure how many said something, but nice to hear someone saying it.




Edit: Also this:


__________________
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Crumb (01-31-2017), Gorgias (02-01-2017), Janet (02-02-2017), JoeP (01-31-2017), lisarea (01-31-2017), Pan Narrans (02-01-2017), Sock Puppet (01-31-2017), SR71 (02-01-2017), Stephen Maturin (01-31-2017), Stormlight (01-31-2017), The Man (01-31-2017), Zehava (02-01-2017)
  #158  
Old 01-31-2017, 08:10 PM
The Man's Avatar
The Man The Man is offline
Safety glasses off, motherfuckers
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sarasota, FL
Gender: Bender
Posts: MVCMLVI
Default Re: Good King Trump

Today in Trump's America - Lawyers, Guns & Money

I think it's time to be legit fearful for my existence at this point, and will be planning an exit strategy now. There were multiple threats against the Quebec mosque that was attacked a few days ago before the actual attack.
__________________
Cēterum cēnseō factiōnem Rēpūblicānam dēlendam esse īgnī ferrōque.

“All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.” -Adam Smith

last.fm · my music · Marathon Expanded Universe
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
beyelzu (02-01-2017), JoeP (01-31-2017), SR71 (02-01-2017), Stephen Maturin (01-31-2017)
  #159  
Old 01-31-2017, 09:18 PM
Dragar's Avatar
Dragar Dragar is offline
Now in six dimensions!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Cotswolds
Gender: Male
Posts: VCI
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
:sadcheer:

I wish I hadn't read this piece by Yonatan Zunger. Please somebody, tell me he doesn't know shit and Bannon-Trump aren't that close to tearing up the constitution and seizing Putinesque power.
From what I've seen so far, I don't think the Trump administration is anywhere near capable of this, even if they wanted to. Their bungling ineptitude is going to get people killed, spark a full fledged constitutional crisis, and if there's a large terrorist incident, riot or disaster, the over reaction might spark a war (or brief civil war). But I doubt there's much chance of a (successful) coup.
__________________
The miracle of the appropriateness of the language of mathematics for the formulation of the laws of physics is a wonderful gift which we neither understand nor deserve. -Eugene Wigner
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
beyelzu (02-03-2017), JoeP (01-31-2017), mickthinks (01-31-2017), Stormlight (02-01-2017), The Man (02-01-2017)
  #160  
Old 01-31-2017, 10:23 PM
Kamilah Hauptmann's Avatar
Kamilah Hauptmann Kamilah Hauptmann is offline
Shitpost Sommelier
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: XVMCMXXIII
Default Re: Good King Trump

On awkward questions to help columnists:

Dear Prudence: My aunt chanted "build a wall" at a family dinner.

eta clickbait: You won't believe # 1!
__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid

:AB: :canada:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Stormlight (02-01-2017), The Man (02-01-2017)
  #161  
Old 02-01-2017, 11:30 AM
Kamilah Hauptmann's Avatar
Kamilah Hauptmann Kamilah Hauptmann is offline
Shitpost Sommelier
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: XVMCMXXIII
Default Re: Good King Trump

Graphic essay: What the Civil Rights Movement can teach us about surviving Trump | Fusion

With pictures to make it easy read.
__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid

:AB: :canada:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
mickthinks (02-01-2017), SharonDee (02-05-2017), The Man (02-01-2017)
  #162  
Old 02-01-2017, 02:34 PM
Gorgias Gorgias is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: IV
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Today in Trump's America - Lawyers, Guns & Money

I think it's time to be legit fearful for my existence at this point, and will be planning an exit strategy now. There were multiple threats against the Quebec mosque that was attacked a few days ago before the actual attack.
The corporate media know exactly what they are doing. CHA-CHING is the sound they hear with Trump at the helm.
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 02-01-2017, 04:57 PM
SR71's Avatar
SR71 SR71 is offline
Stoic Derelict... The cup is empty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Dustbin of History
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCCXXXIX
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 2
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
:sadcheer:

I wish I hadn't read this piece by Yonatan Zunger. Please somebody, tell me he doesn't know shit and Bannon-Trump aren't that close to tearing up the constitution and seizing Putinesque power.

Trial Balloon for a Coup? | Medium

From the linkThat is to say, the administration is testing the extent to which the DHS (and other executive agencies) can act and ignore orders from the other branches of government. This is as serious as it can possibly get: all of the arguments about whether order X or Y is unconstitutional mean nothing if elements of the government are executing them and the courts are being ignored.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
I read that too and it sure is scary. Let's hope it is an overreaction, and they are merely privileged, self-serving buffoons seeking to enrich themselves.
They are privileged, self-serving buffoons seeking to enrich themselves by controlling every channel of power they can and grabbing all the resources they can. They don't think there's anything wrong with it and they won't stop unless they are forced to stop.
I think he's hoping to run the Yeltsin-Putin transition playbook. Set the stage for two basic ingredients. Access to sweetheart loans and having public assets go up for sale, simultaneously. Borrow the money at a low rate and buy the public assets. That's essentially what happened in Russia, yeah? Nice deal if you can get.
__________________
Chained out, like a sitting duck just waiting for the fall _Cage the Elephant
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Sock Puppet (02-02-2017), Stephen Maturin (02-01-2017), The Lone Ranger (02-01-2017), The Man (02-01-2017), Vivisectus (02-02-2017)
  #164  
Old 02-01-2017, 07:53 PM
erimir's Avatar
erimir erimir is offline
Projecting my phallogos with long, hard diction
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dee Cee
Gender: Male
Posts: XMMMDCCCVI
Images: 11
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guardian
One proposal under discussion, at Central Command and elsewhere, is to designate Yemen a formal battlefield for US forces, alongside Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. That move would permit swifter decision-making, expanded authorities and an intensified pace of operations, rather than one-off raids or drone strikes.
Thank goodness we have Trump in office, with his non-interventionist instincts. He had the foresight to first support and then oppose the Iraq War after it was unpopular, and support but later oppose the Libyan intervention after Benghazi, so it was a plausible record of non-interventionism. Strong evidence, much like George W. Bush's argument that the US shouldn't be engaging in "nation building". I was afraid Clinton would commit more forces or even start a new war in the Middle East :phew:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
beyelzu (02-02-2017), Crumb (02-01-2017), Kael (02-01-2017), Pan Narrans (02-01-2017), slimshady2357 (02-02-2017), Sock Puppet (02-02-2017), Stephen Maturin (02-01-2017), Stormlight (02-02-2017), The Lone Ranger (02-01-2017), The Man (02-01-2017), Zehava (02-01-2017)
  #165  
Old 02-01-2017, 11:12 PM
Jerome's Avatar
Jerome Jerome is offline
Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: XDXL
Default Re: Good King Trump

TrumpDonald.org
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 02-01-2017, 11:15 PM
Jerome's Avatar
Jerome Jerome is offline
Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: XDXL
Default Re: Good King Trump

Obama made an all-time record being the only US president to preside over war his entire term.

It can only get better.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 02-01-2017, 11:27 PM
Dragar's Avatar
Dragar Dragar is offline
Now in six dimensions!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Cotswolds
Gender: Male
Posts: VCI
Default Re: Good King Trump

Sure. It's not like he could start a war with Mexico or something.

Trump lambastes Pena Nieto in 'humiliating,' 'threatening' phone call - Business Insider Deutschland
__________________
The miracle of the appropriateness of the language of mathematics for the formulation of the laws of physics is a wonderful gift which we neither understand nor deserve. -Eugene Wigner
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
beyelzu (02-02-2017), erimir (02-02-2017), Kamilah Hauptmann (02-02-2017), slimshady2357 (02-02-2017), The Man (02-01-2017)
  #168  
Old 02-02-2017, 12:23 AM
Kamilah Hauptmann's Avatar
Kamilah Hauptmann Kamilah Hauptmann is offline
Shitpost Sommelier
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: XVMCMXXIII
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragar View Post
Sure. It's not like he could start a war with Mexico or something.

Trump lambastes Pena Nieto in 'humiliating,' 'threatening' phone call - Business Insider Deutschland
The whole situation is this writ large:



And these really are a sizeable number of the populace, even well to do businessmen I've met in mid-upper end dining rooms around the world are like this. An endless stream of 'Canadia' jokes over dinner. Non stop. Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż
__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid

:AB: :canada:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Janet (02-02-2017), slimshady2357 (02-02-2017), Stormlight (02-02-2017), The Man (02-02-2017)
  #169  
Old 02-02-2017, 12:26 AM
Kamilah Hauptmann's Avatar
Kamilah Hauptmann Kamilah Hauptmann is offline
Shitpost Sommelier
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: XVMCMXXIII
Default Re: Good King Trump

Donald Trump just gave a Black History Month speech about the persecution of Donald Trump

I wasn't convinced it wasn't satire until I actually watched the video.
__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid

:AB: :canada:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Dragar (02-02-2017), erimir (02-02-2017), Janet (02-02-2017), slimshady2357 (02-02-2017), SR71 (02-02-2017), The Man (02-02-2017)
  #170  
Old 02-02-2017, 12:34 AM
Kamilah Hauptmann's Avatar
Kamilah Hauptmann Kamilah Hauptmann is offline
Shitpost Sommelier
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: XVMCMXXIII
Default Re: Good King Trump


__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid

:AB: :canada:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
beyelzu (02-02-2017), Crumb (02-02-2017), erimir (02-02-2017), fragment (02-02-2017), Janet (02-02-2017), JoeP (02-02-2017), mickthinks (02-02-2017), Pan Narrans (02-02-2017), SharonDee (02-05-2017), slimshady2357 (02-02-2017), The Lone Ranger (02-02-2017), The Man (02-02-2017)
  #171  
Old 02-02-2017, 02:39 AM
Kamilah Hauptmann's Avatar
Kamilah Hauptmann Kamilah Hauptmann is offline
Shitpost Sommelier
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: XVMCMXXIII
Default Re: Good King Trump

On call with Australian prime minister, Trump badgers and brags - The Washington Post

More insight into the world of malignant NPD.

If Britain's going to be 'that way', it might be time to reforge the British Fucking Empire, have a defensive pact with the EU, and a loose alliance with China and India.
__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid

:AB: :canada:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
JoeP (02-02-2017), Stormlight (02-02-2017), The Man (02-02-2017)
  #172  
Old 02-02-2017, 07:39 AM
Kamilah Hauptmann's Avatar
Kamilah Hauptmann Kamilah Hauptmann is offline
Shitpost Sommelier
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: XVMCMXXIII
Default Re: Good King Trump

Recap of Tuesday.


__________________
Peering from the top of Mount Stupid

:AB: :canada:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
slimshady2357 (02-02-2017), The Man (02-02-2017)
  #173  
Old 02-02-2017, 10:27 AM
JoeP's Avatar
JoeP JoeP is online now
Solipsist
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kolmannessa kerroksessa
Gender: Male
Posts: XXXVMMV
Images: 18
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragar View Post
Sure. It's not like he could start a war with Mexico or something.

Trump lambastes Pena Nieto in 'humiliating,' 'threatening' phone call - Business Insider Deutschland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamilah Hauptmann View Post
On call with Australian prime minister, Trump badgers and brags - The Washington Post

More insight into the world of malignant NPD.

If Britain's going to be 'that way', it might be time to reforge the British Fucking Empire, have a defensive pact with the EU, and a loose alliance with China and India.
What's the long term* fall-out from Lord Dampnut** behaving like this with other world leaders?

Theresa May will carrying on holding his hand, obv, because special relationship. But others?

* long term = more than a week, it seems

** Yes
__________________

:roadrun:
Free thought! Please take one!

:unitedkingdom:   :southafrica:   :unitedkingdom::finland:   :finland:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Janet (02-02-2017), lisarea (02-02-2017), Pan Narrans (02-02-2017), SR71 (02-02-2017), Stormlight (02-02-2017), The Man (02-02-2017)
  #174  
Old 02-02-2017, 10:44 AM
Vivisectus's Avatar
Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
Astroid the Foine Loine between a Poirate and a Farrrmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMCCCLVI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by SR71 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
:sadcheer:

I wish I hadn't read this piece by Yonatan Zunger. Please somebody, tell me he doesn't know shit and Bannon-Trump aren't that close to tearing up the constitution and seizing Putinesque power.

Trial Balloon for a Coup? | Medium

From the linkThat is to say, the administration is testing the extent to which the DHS (and other executive agencies) can act and ignore orders from the other branches of government. This is as serious as it can possibly get: all of the arguments about whether order X or Y is unconstitutional mean nothing if elements of the government are executing them and the courts are being ignored.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
I read that too and it sure is scary. Let's hope it is an overreaction, and they are merely privileged, self-serving buffoons seeking to enrich themselves.
They are privileged, self-serving buffoons seeking to enrich themselves by controlling every channel of power they can and grabbing all the resources they can. They don't think there's anything wrong with it and they won't stop unless they are forced to stop.
I think he's hoping to run the Yeltsin-Putin transition playbook. Set the stage for two basic ingredients. Access to sweetheart loans and having public assets go up for sale, simultaneously. Borrow the money at a low rate and buy the public assets. That's essentially what happened in Russia, yeah? Nice deal if you can get.
Could be - keep causing chaos to keep people distracted and flush out opposition while you rapidly rush some changes through, and in the mean time gather enough juicy deals to hand out so you have the bargaining chips to buy crucial support with. We have already seen part of frank-dodd stripped without much notice... while everyone is making noise about the immigration bans.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
beyelzu (02-02-2017), Kamilah Hauptmann (02-02-2017), SR71 (02-02-2017), Stormlight (02-02-2017), The Lone Ranger (02-03-2017), The Man (02-02-2017)
  #175  
Old 02-02-2017, 02:01 PM
Zehava's Avatar
Zehava Zehava is offline
Captain #EmbraceTheImpossible
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sandy, Oregon
Gender: Male
Posts: MMDCCCXXXVIII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 151
Default Re: Good King Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragar View Post
Sure. It's not like he could start a war with Mexico or something.

Trump lambastes Pena Nieto in 'humiliating,' 'threatening' phone call - Business Insider Deutschland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamilah Hauptmann View Post
On call with Australian prime minister, Trump badgers and brags - The Washington Post

More insight into the world of malignant NPD.

If Britain's going to be 'that way', it might be time to reforge the British Fucking Empire, have a defensive pact with the EU, and a loose alliance with China and India.
What's the long term* fall-out from Lord Dampnut** behaving like this with other world leaders?

Theresa May will carrying on holding his hand, obv, because special relationship. But others?

* long term = more than a week, it seems

** Yes
In the long term, alienating close allies only weakens our position on the global stage and provides openings for Russia and China to bolster their global influence.

It's a tact that has no upside and a horrendous downside.

In this week alone he's essentially told Mexico and Australia to go fuck themselves, we don't need you. It's isolationism and I don't see how that makes America great again.
__________________
The best way to make America great is to lower the standards!
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
JoeP (02-02-2017), Kamilah Hauptmann (02-02-2017), Limoncello (02-02-2017), SR71 (02-02-2017), Stormlight (02-02-2017), The Man (02-02-2017)
Reply

  Freethought Forum > The Public Baths > News, Politics & Law


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 6 (0 members and 6 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.97575 seconds with 16 queries