Go Back   Freethought Forum > The Public Baths > News, Politics & Law

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 12-18-2012, 08:21 AM
Kashmir Kashmir is offline
ellipsis . . .
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: MCCXCVI
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
From our school district superintendent
Quote:

Governments were formed in large part to do for the people what they could not do for themselves. In the realm of public safety, police departments and fire departments were formed. In the case of protecting children who are required to attend school, our society has not done what is necessary. I believe that the only way we can be confident that our schools are safe is to assign a well-trained, well-equipped law enforcement officer to each school. One officer may not be enough to neutralize an attacker, but he or she has a much better chance of doing that than does a principal, teacher, or custodian who stands unarmed between the terrorist and our children.

Some may react and suggest that the schools need to provide security guards. I would submit that if a school building burned somewhere causing loss of life, schools would not be expected to build a fire station and train firemen. Government would do what is necessary to improve fire safety. We have an outstanding Sheriff and a Sheriff’s Office that is the appropriate agency to provide the additional safety. That proposed increase in staffing and the associated costs need to be provided by local government as a cost of keeping us safe. That is its job. There is no higher need.

I estimate that it will cost our county $3.5 million annually, or 66 cents per day per child, to hire, train, and equip a law enforcement officer for each of our schools. It is my opinion that spending such a small amount to assure safety is a good investment on our government’s part, and that such an investment should take precedence over infrastructure costs, etc.
That's a nice sentiment, but since spree murders are a statistically insignificant threat (one is more likely to be struck dead by lightning), that money would be better spent on educational materials--for why the kids are actually there.

It wouldn't assure safety, anyway. Any maniac would just shoot the cop first.
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 12-18-2012, 08:25 AM
Kashmir Kashmir is offline
ellipsis . . .
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: MCCXCVI
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
I am sure there will be lots of disagreements, but Dr. Stone seems to be an expert in the field, so I thought his take an interesting one.
Shea, Shea, ideology trumps evidence on the far Right and Left.
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:05 AM
Gonzo's Avatar
Gonzo Gonzo is offline
It's however you interpret the question...
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: On A Savage Journey to the Heart of the American Dream
Gender: Bender
Posts: VMMMCDXLV
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting



:(
__________________
Buy the ticket, take the ride.

:thanked:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Ari (12-18-2012), Crumb (12-18-2012), Demimonde (12-19-2012), LadyShea (12-18-2012), livius drusus (12-18-2012), Miisa (12-18-2012), Pan Narrans (12-18-2012), Sock Puppet (12-18-2012), The Man (12-21-2012), vremya (12-19-2012), Ymir's blood (12-18-2012)
  #154  
Old 12-18-2012, 12:30 PM
Watser?'s Avatar
Watser? Watser? is offline
Fishy mokey
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
Posts: LMMMDLXXXVI
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
I am sure there will be lots of disagreements, but Dr. Stone seems to be an expert in the field, so I thought his take an interesting one.
Shea, Shea, ideology trumps evidence on the far Right and Left.
Shmir, Shmir :sadno: There is no 'far Left'.

There's barely a Left left.
__________________
:typingmonkey:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
The Man (12-21-2012)
  #155  
Old 12-18-2012, 01:23 PM
Clutch Munny's Avatar
Clutch Munny Clutch Munny is offline
Clutchenheimer
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMMLXXXV
Images: 1
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Munny View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
For those who understand that Kashmir is certain to be saying something gleefully idiotic, but can't be bothered to read the link and figure out, this time, just how fucking stupid it is: List including "spree" serial killers, and excluding most types of mass-event killings: school massacres, workplace killings, and mass domestic homicides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Munny View Post
Oh god, please, don't let's encourage the eager discussion of how in Year 457 of the Third Age in the land of Gor, one of Conan's generals defeated an entire army with a morningstar and two-headed axe, so gun control is irrational.
I hope everyone can see how you've substituted a fake reductio ad absurdum for Kashmir's valid counter argument ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
You can't kill 27 people with an axe or a knife, try to be a little more realistic.
Oh really?
You wouldn't let your students get away with such manouevres, but you yourself arrogate that privilege all too often.
:laugh:

Sorry if you felt left out, mick. Fine, then: The Jesus Whatsit, thedoc, AML, Kashmir, and mickthinks. Shitpoast frenzy complete!
__________________
Your very presence is making me itchy.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Anastasia Beaverhausen (12-18-2012), Nullifidian (12-20-2012), The Man (12-21-2012)
  #156  
Old 12-18-2012, 01:53 PM
Clutch Munny's Avatar
Clutch Munny Clutch Munny is offline
Clutchenheimer
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMMLXXXV
Images: 1
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
nice fantasy strawman.

... think of the world of V for Vendetta. Fiction, yes, but possible.
Once again, when the topic turns to guns, you can't even keep track of what you're saying, never mind what other people are saying. And again with V for Vendetta as your argument from fantasy world. Is it the only fucking movie you've seen?

I think the question you should ask yourself is whether you have it in you not to be a moron. I don't think you are compelled to believe that, because a feather could kill someone if the pointy end was pushed hard into the ear of a person who was, like, tied up or something, it follows that we can't say a machine gun is more dangerous than a feather. That would be excruciatingly stupid, of course, but it's clearly the form of argument you prefer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
Sure, a machine gun is likely to cause serious bodily harm if it is pointed at someone and the trigger is pulled.

But a kitchen knife is likely to cause serious bodily harm if plunged into someone.

A baseball bat is likely to cause serious bodily harm if whacked into another person.

A car . . . you get the idea.
Yes. The idea is that you're a moron. And if you can't help it, that's one thing. Can you?
__________________
Your very presence is making me itchy.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Kael (12-19-2012), The Man (12-21-2012)
  #157  
Old 12-18-2012, 02:07 PM
mickthinks's Avatar
mickthinks mickthinks is offline
Trying to find the actual stastics
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Augsburg
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCMXLV
Images: 19
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Munny View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks View Post
You wouldn't let your students get away with such manouevres, but you yourself arrogate that privilege all too often.
:laugh:

Sorry if you felt left out, mick. Fine, then: The Jesus Whatsit, thedoc, AML, Kashmir, and mickthinks. Shitpoast frenzy complete!
Yes, that's what I mean by abusing your privileges here, Prof. Dismissing criticism of a champion of the in-crowd by calling it "shit-posting" will probably meet with the approval of the in-crowd. But you and I both know it's a bullshit manoeuvre.
__________________
... it's just an idea
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 12-18-2012, 02:27 PM
Clutch Munny's Avatar
Clutch Munny Clutch Munny is offline
Clutchenheimer
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMMLXXXV
Images: 1
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

I suspect that what will meet with only some approval is the relatively succinct way in which I pointed out the following: I actually explicitly debunked the link you cited; you ignored that debunking, and instead quoted an altogether different post as an illegitimate critique of the link.

Seriously, how do you make this shit up? Do you roll dice, or consciously consider what would be the weirdest confabulation to produce? Was my post also an illegitimate criticism of California Tanker? Was it also a perfect example of the view that it's immoral to be moral? Once that three-legged squirrel starts limping around the broken wheel in your head, mick, who the fuck knows?

In any case, I doubt this will meet with very much approval, for the simple reason that I think most people are heartily sick of your pathologies, and are frustrated when others occasionally encourage your fixations by taking the bait. For that, I do apologize.
__________________
Your very presence is making me itchy.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Adam (12-18-2012), beyelzu (12-19-2012), Nullifidian (12-20-2012), The Man (12-21-2012)
  #159  
Old 12-18-2012, 02:39 PM
Anastasia Beaverhausen's Avatar
Anastasia Beaverhausen Anastasia Beaverhausen is offline
Vaginally-privileged sociopathic cultist
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: La Mer
Gender: Female
Posts: MXDCLXXXIV
Blog Entries: 2
Images: 1
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Jesus Harold Christ, mick, can't you take your incessant whining and nitpicking out of a thread about murdered babies? Or is it really all about you?
__________________
:hellokit:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Dragar (12-18-2012), Nullifidian (12-20-2012), The Man (12-21-2012)
  #160  
Old 12-18-2012, 05:16 PM
ZEZOZE's Avatar
ZEZOZE ZEZOZE is offline
you're next
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Gender: Bender
Posts: VMMCCLXXXIV
Images: 147
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

well more than he is doing it.

i'm using these dead kids to make points.

is somebody not?
__________________
paranoid fringe dweller
Reply With Quote
  #161  
Old 12-18-2012, 05:32 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMDLXXXII
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
From our school district superintendent
Quote:

I estimate that it will cost our county $3.5 million annually, or 66 cents per day per child, to hire, train, and equip a law enforcement officer for each of our schools. It is my opinion that spending such a small amount to assure safety is a good investment on our government’s part, and that such an investment should take precedence over infrastructure costs, etc.
Jesus. That's straight up hysteria. 66 cents a day per child is a lot of money, especially for a school district that almost had to close down schools for budget reasons.

That kind of money could be used to provide meals, medical care, counseling, special education, or any of a billion other things that would do so much more good than having a cop wandering around the halls of elementary schools. Not only is the risk infinitesimal, but even if something did happen, having a cop there isn't necessarily going to make much difference anyway.

You guys should sue CNN to foot the bill for that or something. That sort of bullshit media is not only responsible for increasing the risks of similar crimes, but they're creating the perception that they're a much bigger risk than they are, too.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Clutch Munny (12-18-2012), Crumb (12-18-2012), Dragar (12-18-2012), freemonkey (12-24-2012), Kael (12-19-2012), Nullifidian (12-20-2012), Qingdai (12-19-2012), Sock Puppet (12-18-2012), The Lone Ranger (12-18-2012), The Man (12-21-2012), Ymir's blood (12-18-2012)
  #162  
Old 12-18-2012, 08:22 PM
ImGod's Avatar
ImGod ImGod is offline
Bow down before me ... or not.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nebraska
Gender: Male
Posts: MDCXXX
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

If the school would have had bullet resistant glass, the shooter wouldn't have gotten in when he did. He broke a window to open the door. I think they might have noticed him on camera banging away with gun trying to get in and called the police.

However, it doesn't help before/after school or during recess.

Is that cheaper than hiring a police officer for every school in a district?

This issue becomes like the TSA stuff. Too much, too late.
__________________
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the night. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 12-18-2012, 08:26 PM
Ensign Steve's Avatar
Ensign Steve Ensign Steve is offline
more of a before rehab friend
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
Gender: Bender
Posts: XXXXCIX
Images: 66
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

__________________
:kiwf::smurf:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Adam (12-18-2012), ChuckF (12-18-2012), chunksmediocrites (12-19-2012), erimir (12-18-2012), Kael (12-19-2012), Kashmir (12-18-2012), lisarea (12-18-2012), livius drusus (12-18-2012), Nullifidian (12-20-2012), One for Sorrow (12-19-2012), Pan Narrans (12-19-2012), Stormlight (12-19-2012), The Man (12-21-2012), Ymir's blood (12-19-2012), ZEZOZE (12-18-2012)
  #164  
Old 12-18-2012, 09:20 PM
Kashmir Kashmir is offline
ellipsis . . .
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: MCCXCVI
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Munny View Post
Once again, when the topic turns to guns, you can't even keep track of what you're saying, never mind what other people are saying. And again with V for Vendetta as your argument from fantasy world. Is it the only fucking movie you've seen?
I don't consider it an argument, merely an illustration. Never use The Handmaid's Tale, 1984, or any other piece of fiction, I'll be watching.

Also, nice job ignoring my salient points. But of course you would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Munny View Post
I think the question you should ask yourself is whether you have it in you not to be a moron. I don't think you are compelled to believe that, because a feather could kill someone if the pointy end was pushed hard into the ear of a person who was, like, tied up or something, it follows that we can't say a machine gun is more dangerous than a feather. That would be excruciatingly stupid, of course, but it's clearly the form of argument you prefer.
Do you have it in you to not build ludicrous strawmen?

Of course guns are more dangerous than other things, and some kinds of guns are more dangerous than others--would any sane person argue against this?
An average gun is not a super-weapon, orders of magnitude more dangerous than "innocuous" things that can be used to ill ends. That was my point.

You don't seem to like that fact, though. Maybe that's why you resorted to the ever entertaining ad hominem logical fallacy instead of refuting the relevance of my link re killing lots of people in gun-free or limited-gun cultures?

How about you do that?

Oh, and because it bears repeating: I don't own a gun. I have no desire to. However, I have held and fired one within the last year. I have practical experience with them, and have since I was a kid. I can see what they are.

Last edited by Kashmir; 12-18-2012 at 09:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 12-18-2012, 09:25 PM
mickthinks's Avatar
mickthinks mickthinks is offline
Trying to find the actual stastics
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Augsburg
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCMXLV
Images: 19
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasia Beaverhausen View Post
Jesus Harold Christ, mick, can't you take your incessant whining and nitpicking frequent criticism out of a thread about murdered babies??
I've fixed that for you, AB.

I get that my criticism of privileged bad behaviour at :ff: is more frequent than you would wish, and I'm sorry that you don't care about the point I am making here, that Clutch has used a false argument to silence an unpopular voice.

But I have no time for the hidden premise in your (rather whiney) post, that fair argument is not necessary in a discussion of the mass shooting of Newtown school children.


Or is it really all about you
lol It's just the ad hominems that are all about me
__________________
... it's just an idea

Last edited by mickthinks; 12-18-2012 at 09:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:17 PM
Kashmir Kashmir is offline
ellipsis . . .
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: MCCXCVI
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Munny View Post
I suspect that what will meet with only some approval is the relatively succinct way in which I pointed out the following: I actually explicitly debunked the link you cited; you ignored that debunking, and instead quoted an altogether different post as an illegitimate critique of the link.

Seriously, how do you make this shit up? Do you roll dice, or consciously consider what would be the weirdest confabulation to produce? Was my post also an illegitimate criticism of California Tanker? Was it also a perfect example of the view that it's immoral to be moral? Once that three-legged squirrel starts limping around the broken wheel in your head, mick, who the fuck knows?

In any case, I doubt this will meet with very much approval, for the simple reason that I think most people are heartily sick of your pathologies, and are frustrated when others occasionally encourage your fixations by taking the bait. For that, I do apologize.
Wait, what? You think mickthinks and I are the same person?

No, no, no.

If you doubt me, ask Liv.
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:44 PM
Clutch Munny's Avatar
Clutch Munny Clutch Munny is offline
Clutchenheimer
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMMLXXXV
Images: 1
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Gender and gun violence « Feminist Philosophers
__________________
Your very presence is making me itchy.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (12-19-2012), ChuckF (12-18-2012), lisarea (12-18-2012), livius drusus (12-18-2012), Nullifidian (12-20-2012), The Man (12-21-2012), Ymir's blood (12-19-2012)
  #168  
Old 12-18-2012, 11:09 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Images: 2
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Proof of Your Manhood - The Man Card from Bushmaster

:projectilevomit:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (12-19-2012), Clutch Munny (12-18-2012), Crumb (12-18-2012), Kael (12-19-2012), lisarea (12-19-2012), Nullifidian (12-20-2012), The Man (12-21-2012), Ymir's blood (12-19-2012)
  #169  
Old 12-19-2012, 02:11 AM
Ymir's blood's Avatar
Ymir's blood Ymir's blood is offline
Coffin Creep
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The nightmare realm
Posts: XXMXDXXXV
Images: 67
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

I was going to comment about the man-related questionnaire and revoking someone else's mancard but then I saw this:

Quote:
Click for Man Card Unless Your Scared?
What about my scared?
__________________
Much of MADNESS, and more of SIN, and HORROR the soul of the plot.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Anastasia Beaverhausen (12-19-2012), BrotherMan (12-19-2012), ChuckF (12-19-2012), Clutch Munny (12-19-2012), Kael (12-19-2012), lisarea (12-19-2012), livius drusus (12-19-2012), Nullifidian (12-20-2012), Pan Narrans (12-19-2012), Qingdai (12-19-2012), SharonDee (12-19-2012), Sock Puppet (12-19-2012), The Man (12-21-2012)
  #170  
Old 12-19-2012, 02:28 AM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Images: 2
Default

Yeah I typically kind of avoid the usual tiny penis jokes because of the bodyshaming dimension, but seriously, how insecure does a person have to be to want - included with purchase of an assault rifle - an actual card he can carry around and show people that says he is a man.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
chunksmediocrites (12-19-2012), Gonzo (12-19-2012), Kael (12-19-2012), Nullifidian (12-20-2012), Qingdai (12-19-2012), The Man (12-21-2012), Ymir's blood (12-19-2012)
  #171  
Old 12-19-2012, 03:16 AM
ZEZOZE's Avatar
ZEZOZE ZEZOZE is offline
you're next
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Gender: Bender
Posts: VMMCCLXXXIV
Images: 147
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

well i admit i totally want that card. it would compliment my official boob inspector credentials.
__________________
paranoid fringe dweller
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 12-19-2012, 03:57 AM
Kael's Avatar
Kael Kael is offline
the internet says I'm right
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCDXLIV
Blog Entries: 11
Images: 23
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
An average gun is not a super-weapon, orders of magnitude more dangerous than "innocuous" things that can be used to ill ends. That was my point.
Not only does the history of firearms and their development stand completely contrary to that point, it's also completely refuted and ignored by those who claim that having more guns more readily available would somehow result in fewer gun-induced deaths. After all, while many make the 'argument' that a sufficiently skilled and motivated attacker could also kill a lot of people with a machete, table leg, or bobby pin, I don't see many people making the argument that we could be safer from such attacks if only we all carried dueling swords again.
__________________
For Science!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Clutch Munny (12-19-2012), Dragar (12-19-2012), Nullifidian (12-20-2012), The Man (12-21-2012), Zehava (12-19-2012)
  #173  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:04 AM
Ensign Steve's Avatar
Ensign Steve Ensign Steve is offline
more of a before rehab friend
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
Gender: Bender
Posts: XXXXCIX
Images: 66
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Jesus christ i don't even know what to say about the "tough looking fifth graders"

__________________
:kiwf::smurf:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (12-19-2012), ChuckF (12-22-2012), Nullifidian (12-20-2012), Qingdai (12-19-2012), The Man (12-21-2012), Ymir's blood (12-19-2012)
  #174  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:37 AM
BrotherMan's Avatar
BrotherMan BrotherMan is offline
A Very Gentle Bort
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bortlandia
Gender: Male
Posts: XVDCXX
Blog Entries: 5
Images: 63
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

They already done took it down.
__________________
\V/_
I COVLD TEACh YOV BVT I MVST LEVY A FEE
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 12-19-2012, 07:51 AM
Vivisectus's Avatar
Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
Astroid the Foine Loine between a Poirate and a Farrrmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMCCCLII
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Another Mass Shooting

Quote:
Of course guns are more dangerous than other things, and some kinds of guns are more dangerous than others--would any sane person argue against this?
An average gun is not a super-weapon, orders of magnitude more dangerous than "innocuous" things that can be used to ill ends. That was my point.
So guns are more dangerous, easy to use and efficient, but according to you not more dangerous, easy and efficient enough to make a distinction between them and, say, axes, regulate according to that distinction, and expect a drop in the overall murder rate and hope to at least make these kind of atrocities harder to commit?

I don't know about that. It seems that in western european countries where most guns are banned, the murder rate hovers around a quarter of that of the USA. What factors other than the prevalence of firepower do you think accounts for that?
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
The Man (12-21-2012)
Reply

  Freethought Forum > The Public Baths > News, Politics & Law


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.68370 seconds with 14 queries