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  #126  
Old 10-03-2013, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

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  #127  
Old 10-03-2013, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

I guess 80 of the House Republicans blaming Obama for the government shutdown forgot about the letter they signed saying they wanted exactly that if Obamacare wasn't defunded. I'm surprised the letter didn't mention Benghazi. After all, it tried to make something out of nothing with the IRS too.
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  #128  
Old 10-03-2013, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

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With a budget deal still elusive and a deadline approaching on raising the debt ceiling, Speaker John A. Boehner has told colleagues that he is determined to prevent a federal default and is willing to pass a measure through a combination of Republican and Democratic votes, according to multiple House Republicans.

One lawmaker, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Mr. Boehner had indicated he would be willing to violate the so-called Hastert Rule if necessary to pass a debt-limit increase. The informal rule refers to a policy of not bringing to the floor any measure that does not have a majority of Republican votes.
Boehner Tells Republicans He Won't Let the Nation Default - NYTimes.com
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  #129  
Old 10-08-2013, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

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Obama looks damn tired from the pictures we're getting on the BBC.

Good luck, you lot. This would never have happened if you'd still got the Queen in charge.
Seriously guys. I'm not kidding here.

Australia had a government shutdown once. In the end, the queen fired everyone in Parliament.
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  #130  
Old 10-08-2013, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

Urg. One of my democratic party friends was saying that we should have a Queen fire everyone, like it was a good thing, instead of a Murdoch backed coup. I told him it was pretty bad and he did the, "hur, it's a joke" defense.
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  #131  
Old 10-09-2013, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

Hullabaloo:
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Yep, they’re still fantasizing about a grand bargain, and are endorsing hostage tactics over the debt ceiling because they believe it can make their fantasy reality. It’s kind of awesome. Everyone else is, I think, aware that Democrats will never accept a grand bargain without revenues and Republicans will never accept one with revenues; this latter point comes, in turn, from the reality that Republicans don’t care about the debt and never did, they only pretended to as an excuse to slash social insurance programs.
Neoliberal globalization race to the bottom FTW.
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  #132  
Old 10-10-2013, 02:45 AM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

Well now, THAT'S a relief! Obama will not invoke Section 4 of the Fourteenth Amendment in the event of a default. Why? It'd be potentially illegal! “It’d be tied up in litigation for a long time. That’s going to make people nervous.”

Defaulting on the debt in the first place would be a flagrant illegality on the part of Congress, but hey, never mind that shit. Can't have any nervousness-making coming from the White House. :vapours:

It's contemptible, of course, but the crybaby bitch shit coming from the Republicans is almost understandable. The Obama administration has been all about compromise to the point of capitulation. After all this time, anything short of unconditional surrender from the administration is guaranteed to provoke a mass whiny-ass crybaby bitch shit response from the Republicans, what with a Yellowstone-sized mantle plume of whiny-ass crybaby bitch shit being located just below the surface of pretty much every Republican psyche.

On the plus side, the Obama administration has p. much final-strawed me into never voting for another Democratic presidential candidate. You'd think that shit of the sort we've seen from the likes of Obama and Clinton would get easier to stomach as one gets older. It doesn't. For me, it's only gotten more odious. My future votes for president will go to the craziest leftie moonbat whackadoo progressive on the ballot.
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  #133  
Old 10-10-2013, 03:23 AM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

And yet I still hear conservatives in the wild echoing with no trace of irony or self-awareness exactly the talking points they've been fed; this is Obama's shutdown, it is the Democrats that are acting like spoiled children, that it is the left holding the nation hostage, etc. My favorite so far, by which I mean the one that came closest to causing a stroke or aneurism, was an incredibly witty anecdotal-style dialogue where it was the Democrats threatening to flip the table if they didn't get their way, which in this delightful moral tale consisted of free money for beer and cigarettes.

I'm with you, let's get a full-on goddamn socialist up in here and show 'em what it really looks like.
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  #134  
Old 10-10-2013, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

So long as the pro-business DLC has a hand in selection of Democratic presidential candidates, more pro-business than pro-gressive is what we'll get. I see the only difference between the mainstream Republicans and Democrats as being a few social or what they consider moral issues, they're just not that different. But the Teabaggers, they're different and for some reason have populist appeal, enough so to win elections across an entire state, like Rafael Eduardo Cruz did. He makes me wish for more Marco Rubios and that's saying a lot.
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  #135  
Old 10-10-2013, 03:23 PM
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Default

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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
Well now, THAT'S a relief! Obama will not invoke Section 4 of the Fourteenth Amendment in the event of a default. Why? It'd be potentially illegal! “It’d be tied up in litigation for a long time. That’s going to make people nervous.”
I don't think that means Obama wouldn't do it, if it came down to it.

But he would rather it get resolved earlier, for precisely the reason he stated. It is worse than if Congress just raised it.

And the crazies are less likely to do so if they think that not only can they not give Obama what he wants, but that he can be attacked over saving the economy from their shit for doing something "illegal".

So he has to say he won't do it, regardless. Imo.
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  #136  
Old 10-10-2013, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff



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  #137  
Old 10-10-2013, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

16 Ways Default Will Totally Screw Americans | Mother Jones
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  #138  
Old 10-11-2013, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

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Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
Well now, THAT'S a relief! Obama will not invoke Section 4 of the Fourteenth Amendment in the event of a default. Why? It'd be potentially illegal! “It’d be tied up in litigation for a long time. That’s going to make people nervous.”
I don't think that means Obama wouldn't do it, if it came down to it.

But he would rather it get resolved earlier, for precisely the reason he stated. It is worse than if Congress just raised it.

And the crazies are less likely to do so if they think that not only can they not give Obama what he wants, but that he can be attacked over saving the economy from their shit for doing something "illegal".

So he has to say he won't do it, regardless. Imo.
Another way of viewing it is that the whole thing is a bit like a game of chicken. I was recently reminded by a news article (I forget which one) that a driver can gain an advantage in that game by throwing his steering wheel out of the window - that's essentially what Obama is trying to do here.
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  #139  
Old 10-11-2013, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

I think Obama is bluffing.

If it comes that the next day the US will default (or however close they can cut it), I think Obama would use one of those potential "solutions".

The Republicans could then take the action of trying to argue that this was illegal, but then not only did they cause the crisis through inaction, but they'd be making a positive argument that the US should be forced to default. They'd be arguing "No, the US's credit rating SHOULD have been destroyed, and it wasn't and we're taking you to court over it!". I have a hard time seeing how they'd benefit from doing that. But there is a lot of powerful crazy in that party so who knows.
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  #140  
Old 10-12-2013, 04:59 AM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

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Originally Posted by Kael View Post
And yet I still hear conservatives in the wild echoing with no trace of irony or self-awareness exactly the talking points they've been fed; this is Obama's shutdown, it is the Democrats that are acting like spoiled children, that it is the left holding the nation hostage, etc. My favorite so far, by which I mean the one that came closest to causing a stroke or aneurism, was an incredibly witty anecdotal-style dialogue where it was the Democrats threatening to flip the table if they didn't get their way, which in this delightful moral tale consisted of free money for beer and cigarettes.

I'm with you, let's get a full-on goddamn socialist up in here and show 'em what it really looks like.
Well, that's exactly right, Steve, and that's exactly what we're gonna do. Is it okay if I call you Steve? Too big to fail is too big to jail, and I'm fed up with it. These people are only concerned about their own tax burden and couldn't care less about the working men and women of this nation or anybody else.
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  #141  
Old 10-12-2013, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

The problem is that the current shoving match is over whether to shut down the government: one of the parties involved (the tea party) doesn't like government anyway and is happy for it to be shut down.

So it's like having a shoving match on the edge of a cliff with a lemming: the lemming (only according to Walt Disney, I know) is quite keen to jump off the cliff in any case, so has nothing really to lose.
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  #142  
Old 03-24-2017, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

Were you looking forward to Debt Ceiling II: Electric Boogaloo as much as I was? I'm sure you were.

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  #143  
Old 03-24-2017, 12:23 AM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

Oh, the Republicans will quietly raise the debt ceiling. There is no reason to grandstand since there is not a Dem in the white house to blame it all on.
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  #144  
Old 03-24-2017, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

I'm not entirely convinced they will. At some point the panderers got replaced with True Believers and it's an article of faith for many of them that government spending is eeeeeeevil. I hope to be proved wrong, mind you. However, if recent events have taught me anything, it's to distrust optimistic predictions of politicians' behaviour.
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  #145  
Old 03-24-2017, 12:34 AM
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Default Re: Shoving Match at the Edge of the Fiscal Cliff

It'll be interesting to see how that tension resolves and what kind of visibilty the process attains.
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