Mafia Game Thread

[Demimonde]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Silly goose.

Whether or not I've played before has nothing to do with my erratic decision making. All should remain innocent until proven guilty. And I plan to push a button or two to find out everyone's true intentions, not only behind voting for Demi or for chalking me up (is my word not enough?),

No, your word isn't enough. This isn't a democracy in which we're innocent until proven guilty. If you read the wiki on the origins of the game, it began in Russia not the good ol' US of A. We don't have that luxury of assuming everyone innocent. We know that scum must lie in order to destroy the town. Words mean little or nothing in this game, which is why I have been trying to find the subtext behind them. I am also judging by action.

I would be suspicious of a person who made the mistake I did. I don't understand why you have no reservations about it. In your first post outlining the scenario you see bey and I as innocent, but you state that bey is still suspicious and don't mention any questions about my innocence whatsoever.

Now that I am close to being lynched, I am above suspicion somehow, but bey is still suspicious in your estimation and you lay it on thicker than before. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, because I am in the position to know my innocence. At the same time I don't have any idea what kind of knowlege you are basing it on.

The major element of this game is the informed minority (mafia) acts against an uninformed majority (town). Anyone who seems more informed about information I know to be accurate seems suspicious to me.

Your postion on this has me looking critically at you in particular, but it may be a basic misunderstanding about the game so I'll reserve voting for you for now. Also i cannot afford a OMGUS at this moment.

Has The Man made a single vote as of yet? Each day he comes in to claim that he has just barely read the thread but can't make any decisions, so sorry etc. He then fans the flames of what ever discussion is going on at the time, then disapears. Is this normal? I thought he said in the sign up thread that he had two other mafia games going on at the moment. Are we unimportant and getting neglected or is he flying really far below the radar?

[Gonzo]

The whole trusting my word thing was a big joke.



I don't expect anyone to trust me. I only offer you the opportunity.

Good point about The Man.

[livius drusus]

Well, it's Saturday. I hope to see Megatron post today.

[Crumb]

Me too.

[Megatron]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

I'm fine with waiting until the weekend to kill, but Mega, if this is going to be a habit with you, that blows for the rest of us. Are you going to be able to play this game for real from this weekend onwards, or is just going to be a couple of "I'm too busy" posts until Saturdays?

No, I should be stable now. I just had a gauntlet of 4 tests in 5 days, but now it's over, and if things go according to the syllabus I shouldn't have anything that rigorous again anytime soon. Friday nights are still fucked, but other than that I'll be good.

More to come, I'm still drinking my coffee (I slept for 11 hours last night and it was FUCKING GLORIOUS)

[Megatron]

First off, bey's claim concerns me.

Roleblockers can of course be pro-town, but damned if that's not one of the easiest claims for scum to make (aside from cop, of course, since they know exactly who the scum are.) I want to believe it though - more on that later.

Several people are very quiet, myself included, but out of them, The Man sticks out the most since he's semi-actively posting yet never voting. No prodding, no pushing, completely inobtrusive. I think that was pointed out once already.

That said, here's some meta - He was almost this subdued in the last game I played with him and he was town in that one. Still, meta is meta. CERTAINLY doesn't clear him, not to me anyway, but it's something that happens.

Now let's see.

We had an early bandwagon on Deadlokd that's now all but forgotten. It looked like a bad wagon, so that's a good thing.

liv, Crumb and ES seem constructive enough, and everyone else is ... just there. Obviously I'm in that group, but I didn't expect the game to start this soon and it started at exactly the WRONG time.

Gonzo is a newb and he's playing like a newb. I can't get much of a read yet.

Then there's Demi.

Verbose, pretty posts, concise and constructive, with way too much proficiency for a newbie. Almost as if she'd received a genuinely interesting role PM and decided she'd work extra hard to play it to the hilt.

Maybe this is a bit silly of a comparison, but remember the first meeting between Aragorn and Frodo?

That's what this bey vs. Demi thing seems like. Demi looks fair but feels foul, and vice versa for bey.

That said, 4 votes is a dangerous wagon to throw down on without deconstructing every detail, which I'm still working on.

[Nightson]

1. Crumb
2. Gonzo - 1 (Deadlokd)
3. Kael
4. Megatron
5. Demimonde - 4 (beyelzu, Ensign Steve, Kael, Crumb)
6. The Man
7. Deadlokd
8. Ensign Steve
9. livius drusus - 1 (Gonzo)
10. Adam
11. beyelzu - 1 (Adam)

Not Voting - (Megatron, The Man, livius drusus, Demimonde)

Vote count just because it's a new day and a new page.

[Megatron]

I have two prime suspects right now, and some outlying suspicions.

Kael
All his votes have been on a wagon, even the first when he voted for Deadlokd. No arguments offered besides 2-3 sentence varieties of "What (he/she) said" Click me and see for yourself. He's literally posted nothing else except a benign prod of the inactives. Finally, one of these votes put bey in hammer range. Proven mob tactic, most often used to try to lure a townie or noob to drop it and face the music the next day.

Demi
For what I said above plus this little gem:

Originally Posted by Demimonde

It is possible that all three scum were in it and couldn't bring a town over to drop the hammer.

I saw the explanation for this slip but I still don't like it. All three scum. It sounds too definitive, too absolute to be just a newbie mistake.


The others:

The Man
Inactivity is one thing, inaction is another entirely. I've played with him before, and he's often like this, but if there's one thing I've learned playing mafia HERE it's to never trust meta. I lost us Clue mafia because a metagame thought kept me from voting how I thought I should.

beyelzu
I don't like the claim, plain and simple. I realize that if you're town there's not much else you CAN do, but DAMN was that convenient. Also, seems to have slowed down now that the heat's elsewhere.

[Megatron]

I realized I missed something there: vote: Kael

[livius drusus]

Nicely laid out, Megatron. I don't disagree on any point, except I don't have any meta insight on The Man's play style and therefore find his inaction/delayed fuck approach inherently suspicious.

I don't want to vote for either Demi or bey for a first day lynch because I feel like that dynamic ended up being something of a dramawhore, possibly misdirected on both sides.

I still find Demi's reaction to the flub was more suspicious than the flub itself. Not her adroit understanding of the game -- I read like a crazy person before my first game too and she has shown herself to be an exceptionally skilled researcher since her first day on the forum -- but rather the way she pleaded noob when first busted. It was heavy-handed, and I think she realized that so quickly shifted to a more thoughtful, subtle approach which suits her better.

As for bey, I'm still keeping my vote with his name on it. The whole Deadlokd "bring a claim" scramble is shady, even more so when after he backtracked saying he only meant to warn people not to drop the hammer in case of claim, he then proceeded to make a claim of his own when Kael brought him to L-1. The claim is weak, but it's enough to stop me from wanting to see him hang on the first day.

So, words aside, I find the most suspicious actions of the day to be Kael's. His votes are straight bandwagon, barely explained and potentially dangerous. He's played before and I don't find his appeal to taciturn nature persuasive.

Vote: Kael

[Gonzo]

UNVOTE, VOTE KAEL

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by Megatron

I have two prime suspects right now, and some outlying suspicions.

Kael
All his votes have been on a wagon, even the first when he voted for Deadlokd. No arguments offered besides 2-3 sentence varieties of "What (he/she) said" Click me and see for yourself. He's literally posted nothing else except a benign prod of the inactives. Finally, one of these votes put bey in hammer range. Proven mob tactic, most often used to try to lure a townie or noob to drop it and face the music the next day.

Demi
For what I said above plus this little gem:

I saw the explanation for this slip but I still don't like it. All three scum. It sounds too definitive, too absolute to be just a newbie mistake.


The others:

The Man
Inactivity is one thing, inaction is another entirely. I've played with him before, and he's often like this, but if there's one thing I've learned playing mafia HERE it's to never trust meta. I lost us Clue mafia because a metagame thought kept me from voting how I thought I should.

beyelzu
I don't like the claim, plain and simple. I realize that if you're town there's not much else you CAN do, but DAMN was that convenient. Also, seems to have slowed down now that the heat's elsewhere.

yeah. i have thought about it. role blocker is a weakass claim. unfortunately for me and fortunately for the town its the role i have. fortunate cuz at least im not cop or doc. i am totally aware of how easy it is to claim.

ihave been quiet cuz i had a chem test and then we had to get ready for our superbowl get together. anyway. i am leary of this kaelwagon though i certainly see the suspicion. the wagon votes and lack of helfullness.

however i cant let demi's fuckup go. i still think she is evil.

[Megatron]

I think at least one of Demi and Kael are scum, and I'm not so sure about you yet... but it can't be this easy, I'm betting there's at least one out there that's eluding my radar altogether. Whoever it is, I don't suppose you'll just come out peacefully (so we can fucking kill you)?

[Gonzo]

[Crumb]

Is that a guilty giggle?

[Gonzo]

Nu-uh

[Crumb]

[Megatron]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

He's played before and I don't find his appeal to taciturn nature persuasive.

Exactly. Especially since said appeal is contradicted by his voting habits.

However,

Originally Posted by Gonzo

UNVOTE, VOTE KAEL

...what a productive post. I know my logic is sound (even though bey has reservations, which makes me curious as well), or at least I feel like it is... but no arguments? No statements? No explanation at all? I know you're new, but I wonder if you're throwing him under the bus, maybe?

[Megatron]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

but rather the way she pleaded noob when first busted. It was heavy-handed, and I think she realized that so quickly shifted to a more thoughtful, subtle approach which suits her better.

This is exactly why she's higher on the scum-o-meter than bey, and if it comes to one of those two swinging today, she gets my vote. There was a quite visible knee-jerk.


Also... I know I'm posting a string of shit, but y'know, no edits, and my usual forum posting method often consists of "Make original post, edit 5-10 times until it has everything I want in it"... so yeah.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by Megatron

Exactly. Especially since said appeal is contradicted by his voting habits.

However,

...what a productive post. I know my logic is sound (even though bey has reservations, which makes me curious as well), or at least I feel like it is... but no arguments? No statements? No explanation at all? I know you're new, but I wonder if you're throwing him under the bus, maybe?

Its sound logic, no doubt, he is quiet and doesn't help the town. but the speed with which the bandwagon rolled worried me.

I don't trust liv, not sure exactly why. I need to check her interactions with other suspects. However, the back and forth tween her and gonzo could be scum fosing each other, and maybe his vote is newb scum following other scum.

I am just leery of the wagon, I am not completely sure why. Also, I really feel alot more suspicion of demi.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by Megatron

This is exactly why she's higher on the scum-o-meter than bey, and if it comes to one of those two swinging today, she gets my vote. There was a quite visible knee-jerk.


Also... I know I'm posting a string of shit, but y'know, no edits, and my usual forum posting method often consists of "Make original post, edit 5-10 times until it has everything I want in it"... so yeah.

No edits makes it a hazard no doubt.

The above post is one of the things that makes me suspicious of liv. Unless they are masons or something, it just seems liv is very supportive of demi, more so than I have seen elsewhere.

She made mention of demi's change of tone, something that bothered me and kind of explained it away.

[Gonzo]

I've voted for KAEL already. Maybe if you have been present or read through the thread carefully you would know KAEL is my main suspect. I hold the same reasons. My vote for LIV was meant to measure he reaction. I've intended to go with KAEL as soon as others have taken notice to his behavior, but I have already said all this.

HERE, I voted for KAEL the first time.

Originally Posted by Gonzo

3. That we should hold off on BEY for now (but keep a close eye on his decisions to vote) and put our attention on KAEL and ENSIGN STEVE, who I suspect to be scum laying low. As KAEL has posted less often and given me less content to deliberate his innocence, I VOTE KAEL until further notice.

HERE, I reinforced my opinion.

Originally Posted by Gonzo

What good points? "Vote for me based on your assumptions"?
As I said Kael had little to say and suddenly he's here to defend bey with a two liner and turn the tables onto someone else.


"I'll go ahead and..."
So nonchalant, too...

My decision is final. I am now ready for nightfall.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

The above post is one of the things that makes me suspicious of liv. Unless they are masons or something, it just seems liv is very supportive of demi, more so than I have seen elsewhere.

She made mention of demi's change of tone, something that bothered me and kind of explained it away.

Like I told you before, I'm less supportive of Demi than I was of Deadlokd, who you took to L-1. In fact, I've repeatedly stated that I find her reaction to the flub suspicious. I just didn't find the flub itself the great gotcha moment you thought it was, because I've seen that kind of shit happen before to innocents.

This was my great defense of Demi, the only post I made in defense of her before you accused me of "helping the newb mafia with her obvious fuckup":

Ooh, intrigue! Demi's third comment was definitely quite the slip of the tongue, but it's also true that three has been the scumcount in most of our past games here, certainly the first two games plus my first Deadwood.

That is the sum total of it. Adam said the same thing later and I didn't see you go off on him for it. So where is this avid defense of Demi you imagine I put forth? Here are all my posts. Find it.

It don't think it exists. What does exist is my following up on your "bring a claim" contradiction. You saw that as an evildoer's defense of Demi instead of justifiable suspicion of you, which is bizarre given that I had my vote on you from minute one and you admitted yourself that you fucked up.

I'm also the only one who mentioned her reaction to the flub as more suspicious than the flub itself. This is the first time you've said anything about it. It's been all about the three three three for you since she dropped it.

Kael didn't set off the evilmeter in some vague way, by tripping on words or altering his personality. He took questionable action by voting bandwagon often and with little justification. If he is town, he is altogether too easily persuaded and cavalier with dangerous votes. I therefore think he is mafia, and I so voted.

[beyelzu]

Meh, a strong defense would be extra suspicious, I think your hammering on my supposed contradiction which was little more than me misspeaking was part of the defense. Cuz I just dont think that what I did was so suspicious.

Regardless, I figure I will be dead soon, either by lynch or nightkill, and you can read my entrails.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

Meh, a strong defense would be extra suspicious, I think your hammering on my supposed contradiction which was little more than me misspeaking was part of the defense. Cuz I just dont think that what I did was so suspicious.

Yes well, you wouldn't, obviously. I'm not the only who disagrees, though, and I'm far from the only who called you out on it. Pretty much everyone found it suspicious, but you see that suspicion as evidence of scummery only in my case.

Regardless, I figure I will be dead soon, either by lynch or nightkill, and you can read my entrails.

I don't see you being lynched today, but your claim might inspire the mafia to kill you tonight. Or not. They might find your role of questionable utility to the town (which it is for several reasons) and your penchant for quick judgments of some utility to them.