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  #4551  
Old 06-10-2016, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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What Viv said.
It's ok, because that's what evil pro-vaxxers would do, doesn't help your case any.
If Wakefield is just as dishonest as the CDC and you claim we cant trust the CDC, then why should we trust Wakefield?
Because I am listening to him, and he is very forthright in his defense. Why don't you listen to him and THEN come to your own conclusions, but not until you hear him out. That's only fair Ari or else you're just a biased individual who doesn't like him because of hearsay. We all know what hearsay (and gossip gone awry) can do to ruin a person's career.
You are mistaking hearsay with historical fact. It is not hearsay that Wakefield's license to practice medicine was revoked in Britain. It is not hearsay that he was found negligent and to have abused his patients. It is not hearsay that the Lancet retracted his paper in full. It is not hearsay that many of the doctors on that paper retracted their support.
You have failed to get any testimony from the person being accused. That is not democracy. Giving a person his due process is very important, but that did not happen in this case.
:lol: Hearsay! Due process! Democracy!
You got it!
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  #4552  
Old 06-10-2016, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
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- Unethical anti-vax shitball Brian Hooker spoke with Thompson by phone and recorded the conversations without Thompson's knowledge or consent.
I guess there was no other way to prove his case.
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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
By that top-notch logic, making shit up from whole cloth is perfectly legit if there's "no other way to prove his case." Of course, anti-vaxxers do that all the time. :yup:
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. :yup:
And if that means treating a child's meningitis with crystals and bat guano, so be it.

But hey, kudos for admitting that anti-vaxxers make shit up all the time. For you, that level of candor is quite surprising.
Exposing a lie that could have ruined numerous children's lives is something he felt he had to do, and for good reason. He is an ethical man.

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Come on Maturin, you know witnesses help the police by wearing audio devices in a sting operation. Are they shitballs too?
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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
It's not unlawful for the cops to wire up a witness for the purpose of obtaining incriminating statements from a suspect. They generally get judicial approval in advance before doing so.

In California, the place where shitball Hooker live and works, it's unlawful for one private party to a phone conversation to tape the conversation without the other party's consent.

You are indeed a simple creature.

And Brian Hooker is an unethical shitball. :yup:
And you're so stuck on the legality of a situation that you cannot see beyond it. He did what he felt he had to do.
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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
You're talking out of your ass. You have no clue whatsoever why Hooker unlawfully recorded those conversations, and why Hooker and Wakefield later doctored the recordings to fit their own narrative.
You are the ONE talking out of your ass. You have no proof that these men doctored the recordings to fit their own narrative.

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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
- "evidence that has caused many African American boys to become autistic"? What the fuck does that even mean? Exactly what is this evidence and how did the evidence cause autism in African American boys? You are extremely stupid. :yup:
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I guess you didn't read much about it.
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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
So you're doubling down on your statement that evidence caused autism in African American boys? :laugh: You're like Sarah Palin without the grifting ability.
Yes, I'm doubling down. What's it to you?
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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Nothing at all. You believe that evidence causes autism. That's dumb as hell, but hey, whatever.
The results that found African American boys are at greater risk of getting autism after the MMR vaccine was purposely omitted. If that isn't fraud, I don't know what is.

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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Just for kicks, let's go over Hooker's reanalysis of the CDC's data. Oh wait ... we can't do that, on accounta this.
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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
And let's go over the truth which the CDC did not provide.


lol
This is all propaganda and you've fallen for it. Snopes is not the final word on Andrew Wakefield and Brian Hooker. This has turned into a modern day witch hunt. Unfortunately, children are being badly damaged in the process.

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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
- In his only public statement on the matter, Thompson wrote that parents should continue having their children vaccinated in accordance with CDC recommendations.
Sure, he wanted to keep his job.
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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
lol@welfare queen speculating about motivations relating to work.
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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
you don't know me from Adam.
I know that you're a work-averse welfare queen who believes the world owes her a living. :yup:
You don't know me at all, just like you don't know Hooker and Wakefield at all. You just think you do.

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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Why would Thompson want to keep a relatively low-paying job with a government agency that's lying to the public when he could pull an Andy Wakefield and make millions per year being an anti-vax celebrity while telling the "truth"?
You're such a conspiracy theorist always trying to attack the motivations of people you don't like because they don't see things the way you do.
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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
:laugh: :parrot:

Answer the question. If what Hooker says about Thompson is true (lol it's not), why would Thompson continue working for the evil, evidence-suppressing CDC when he could be telling the "truth" publicly and making more money in the process?
Maybe he feels the public is too brainwashed, like you, to care about what he has to say. Did you ever think of that? :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Oh, and here's a screenshot from Vaxxed. Guess which work displayed prominently on the screen does not accurately describe Andy Wakefield!
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The fact that people backed out of the film or changed their minds is due to public shaming. This article shows how negative public opinion can cause people to cower. This in no way proves that the presentation was inaccurate.
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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Cowardly evasion noted. I'll ask again: what word in that screencap does not apply to Andy Wakefield?
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I'm not evading anything.
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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Sure you are. Answer the question.
I did.
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"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill

Last edited by peacegirl; 06-10-2016 at 07:30 PM.
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  #4553  
Old 06-10-2016, 06:45 PM
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ChuckF ChuckF is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin View Post
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We all know that the medical mafia is corrupt, so their retraction, especially when it would greatly diminish their profits (and you cannot separate the two), is no surprise at all.
You have failed to get any testimony from the person being accused! That is not democracy!
It is not democracy! It may be privity! Or subrogation!
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  #4554  
Old 06-10-2016, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Also an ad damnum clause, an amatory action, inherent authority, de novo review and maybe a touch of equitable estoppel.
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  #4555  
Old 06-10-2016, 07:02 PM
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chunksmediocrites chunksmediocrites is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
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Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
What Viv said.
It's ok, because that's what evil pro-vaxxers would do, doesn't help your case any.
If Wakefield is just as dishonest as the CDC and you claim we cant trust the CDC, then why should we trust Wakefield?
Because I am listening to him, and he is very forthright in his defense. Why don't you listen to him and THEN come to your own conclusions, but not until you hear him out. That's only fair Ari or else you're just a biased individual who doesn't like him because of hearsay. We all know what hearsay (and gossip gone awry) can do to ruin a person's career.
You are mistaking hearsay with historical fact. It is not hearsay that Wakefield's license to practice medicine was revoked in Britain. It is not hearsay that he was found negligent and to have abused his patients. It is not hearsay that the Lancet retracted his paper in full. It is not hearsay that many of the doctors on that paper retracted their support.
You have failed to get any testimony from the person being accused.
:facepalm: Really? Wakefield has a reasonable explanation regarding lumbar punctures on autistic children, that were entirely for research and not treatment, and why that wasn't cleared by an ethics board? Wakefield explained away doctoring patient histories? Wakefield had a good reason to pay children at his son's birthday party to provide on-the spot blood samples for his research? Wakefield has a credible explanation for the multiple studies using much larger sample sizes that looked at the same criteria and found none of the links Wakefield claims to have found in his fraudulent, doctored "study"?
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That is not democracy.
Please, paint me a picture of how Wakefield would have fared differently, in a democracy.
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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Giving a person his due process is very important, but that did not happen in this case.
Due process has a clear legal meaning, which you appear to not understand. Please identify when and where Wakefield was denied his legal right to due process. What crimes was he charged with, in the British courts?
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That Wakefield's paper was retracted means nothing in terms of validity.
Except of course that the Lancet was very clear about why they retracted the study (fraud), and the BMJ was clear about why they found the study to be fraudulent, as was the GMC.
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We all know that the medical mafia is corrupt,
That is a fallacious argument, massively broad and vague, based on invalid assumptions. Please identify the specific corruption that you believe occurred to result in the retraction, and any evidence offered to support.

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...so their retraction, especially when it would greatly diminish their profits (and you cannot separate the two), is no surprise.
Please identify how the Lancet retracting Wakefield's study
12 years after the date of publication impacted "their" profits. Who profited, again?
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  #4556  
Old 06-10-2016, 07:17 PM
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Ari Ari is offline
I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

So let me get this straight Peacegirl, if I watch his free youtube video of his defense I will then be allowed to criticize him?

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That's only fair Ari or else you're just a biased individual who doesn't like him because of hearsay. We all know what hearsay (and gossip gone awry) can do to ruin a person's career.
So the fact that 11 authors removed their name from his paper, that it was removed from publication and he lost his license in the EU is Hearsay?
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  #4557  
Old 06-10-2016, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
By that top-notch logic, making shit up from whole cloth is perfectly legit if there's "no other way to prove his case." Of course, anti-vaxxers do that all the time. :yup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. :yup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
And if that means treating a child's meningitis with crystals and bat guano, so be it.

But hey, kudos for admitting that anti-vaxxers make shit up all the time. For you, that level of candor is quite surprising.
Exposing a lie that could have ruined numerous children's lives is something he felt he had to do, and for good reason. He is an ethical man.
Again, thanks for admitting that anti-vaxxers make shit up all the time.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
You're talking out of your ass. You have no clue whatsoever why Hooker unlawfully recorded those conversations, and why Hooker and Wakefield later doctored the recordings to fit their own narrative.
You are the ONE talking out of your ass. You have no proof that these men doctored the recordings to fit their own narrative.
So you haven't listened to the recordings or read any of the transcripts. That's ... unsurprising.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Nothing at all. You believe that evidence causes autism. That's dumb as hell, but hey, whatever.
The results that found African American boys are at greater risk of getting autism after the MMR vaccine was purposely omitted. If that isn't fraud, I don't know what is.
Keep on telling yourself that if it helps you, but what does any of that nonsense have to do with your statement that evidence causes autism?

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Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
This is all propaganda and you've fallen for it.
Unsubstantiated pontification noted. :pat:

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You don't know me at all, just like you don't know Hooker and Wakefield at all. You just think you do.
I know that you have no trouble spending 10+ hours per day "researching" and squabbling with strangers on the Internet yet are collecting public money by claiming inability to work. If that isn't fraud, I don't know what is. :yup:

On the other hand, what work are you competent to do? The breathtaking incompetence you've displayed here strongly suggests "none" as an answer.

Now, there may have been a time in the distant past when you possessed the capacity for some sort of menial work. For instance, back before the Internet became a big deal many cities had porn shops with back rooms featuring booths. Customers could enter a booth, close the door and pump quarters into a slot to display a porn flick in the booth via closed circuit TV or 8mm film. Maybe -- MAYBE -- there was a time when you were competent enough to make rounds through the back room of such a place with a bucket and mop, cleaning the jizz out of the individual booths.

Maybe.

But any minimal competence you may have once had, much like those old-time porn shops, has been consigned to history's dustbin.

Ideally, your children alone should be funding your leechery. But hey, in the grand scheme of things, the fraud you're committing is pretty small potatoes.

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Maybe he feels the public is too brainwashed, like you, to care about what he has to say. Did you ever think of that? :laugh:
Of course not, cuz it's utterly moronic. Why would Thompson continue helping the CDC poison children when he could leave that evil organization and try to change hearts and minds while at the same time making a better living?

You must think Thompson is a real monster. :sadcheer:

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Sure you are. Answer the question.
I did.
No you didn't, ya big fat liar. There's a word featured in the Vaxxed screencap in the article I linked. The producers of the film represented the word as describing Andy Wakefield. In truth, the word does not describe Andy Wakefield. What is that word?
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  #4558  
Old 06-10-2016, 08:25 PM
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peacegirl peacegirl is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
What Viv said.
It's ok, because that's what evil pro-vaxxers would do, doesn't help your case any.
If Wakefield is just as dishonest as the CDC and you claim we cant trust the CDC, then why should we trust Wakefield?
Because I am listening to him, and he is very forthright in his defense. Why don't you listen to him and THEN come to your own conclusions, but not until you hear him out. That's only fair Ari or else you're just a biased individual who doesn't like him because of hearsay. We all know what hearsay (and gossip gone awry) can do to ruin a person's career.
You are mistaking hearsay with historical fact. It is not hearsay that Wakefield's license to practice medicine was revoked in Britain. It is not hearsay that he was found negligent and to have abused his patients.
That is not historical fact. That is ONLY one version of what happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
It is not hearsay that the Lancet retracted his paper in full. It is not hearsay that many of the doctors on that paper retracted their support.
That is true, but the reason for the retraction is in question.

You have failed to get any testimony from the person being accused.[/quote="chunksmediocrites"]:facepalm: Really? Wakefield has a reasonable explanation regarding lumbar punctures on autistic children, that were entirely for research and not treatment, and why that wasn't cleared by an ethics board? Wakefield explained away doctoring patient histories? Wakefield had a good reason to pay children at his son's birthday party to provide on-the spot blood samples for his research? Wakefield has a credible explanation for the multiple studies using much larger sample sizes that looked at the same criteria and found none of the links Wakefield claims to have found in his fraudulent, doctored "study"?
Maybe this will help get to the bottom of what happened.

Dr. Andrew Wakefield Deals With Allegations - Vaxxed

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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
That is not democracy.
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Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
Please, paint me a picture of how Wakefield would have fared differently, in a democracy.
You're right, maybe nothing would have changed because a democracy does not guarantee ethical behavior on the part of government.
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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Giving a person his due process is very important, but that did not happen in this case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
Due process has a clear legal meaning, which you appear to not understand. Please identify when and where Wakefield was denied his legal right to due process. What crimes was he charged with, in the British courts?
He was charged with fraud.
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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
That Wakefield's paper was retracted means nothing in terms of validity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
Except of course that the Lancet was very clear about why they retracted the study (fraud), and the BMJ was clear about why they found the study to be fraudulent, as was the GMC.
In Britain, The General Medical Council is in charge of licensing and regulating doctors. Their 2010 “trial” of Andrew Wakefield and his colleagues was the longest in GMC history, lasting 217 days, and concluded by revoking the medical licenses of Dr. Andrew Wakefield and Prof Walker-Smith. At the time, Dr. Wakefield spoke of the injustice that Judge Mitting has now confirmed:

“It seemed to me that they had come to this decision a long time ago, long before the evidence was fairly heard. This is the way the system deals with dissent. You isolate, discredit and provide an example to other doctors and scientists not to get involved in this kind of thing. That is examining questions of vaccine safety.”

MMR Doctor Exonerated—Who’s Guilty Now? » Generation Rescue | Jenny McCarthy's Autism Organization


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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
We all know that the medical mafia is corrupt,
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
That is a fallacious argument, massively broad and vague, based on invalid assumptions. Please identify the specific corruption that you believe occurred to result in the retraction, and any evidence offered to support.
They took away a doctor's medical license for no reason other than he was a threat to the organization. That is corrupt!

The CDC: A Truly Corrupt and Dangerous Organization

Over the years, the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) has repeatedly deceived and lied to the public, yet they continue to state that their mission is to protect America from health, safety and security threats, both foreign and in the U.S.

They boldly announce on their website that the “CDC increases the health security of our nation. As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats. To accomplish our mission, CDC conducts critical science and provides health information that protects our nation against expensive and dangerous health threats, and responds when these arise,” and yet there is more and more evidence to suggest that their so called ‘scientific evidence’ has been skewed and deliberately tampered with to gain the desired results. [1]

During the course of this article, I am going to give five recent examples of CDC fraud or deception. Each one of my examples will demonstrate when the CDC has deliberately altered or withheld scientific evidence in a bid to misinform the public.


Example #1: CDC Whistleblower Announces That the MMR Vaccine Causes Autism
Last month, Dr. Andrew Wakefield revealed that, during telephone conversations between biochemist Brian Hooker and a CDC whistleblower, later named as William Thompson, Thompson admitted that the CDC had deliberately withheld crucial evidence proving that the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine caused autism.

Dr. Thompson told Dr. Hooker that, in 2003, research carried out by the CDC in Atlanta, Georgia, revealed that when African-American boys under the age of 36 months were given the MMR vaccine, the rate of autism in this group rose by 340 percent.

In a desperate bid to cover up this tragedy, the CDC decided to fix the data and eliminated all African-American boys without a Georgia birth certificate. In doing so, the number of children suffering from autism caused by the vaccine reduced significantly, giving the CDC the results they desired.

n an article sourced from Focus Autism Foundation, referenced by Roger Landry, founder of The Liberty Beacon, the authors stated:

“According to Dr. Hooker, the CDC whistleblower informant— who wishes to remain anonymous (since named as William Thompson)— guided him to evidence that a statistically significant relationship between the age the MMR vaccine was first given and autism incidence in African-American boys was hidden by CDC researchers. After data were gathered on 2,583 children living in Atlanta, Georgia who were born between 1986 and 1993, CDC researchers excluded children that did not have a valid State of Georgia birth certificate — reducing the sample size being studied by 41%. Hooker explains that by introducing this arbitrary criteria into the analysis, the cohort size was sharply reduced, eliminating the statistical power of the findings and negating the strong MMR-autism link in African American boys.” [2]

On August 27, 2014, William Thompson, PhD, issued this statement. He wrote:

“FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE-AUGUST 27, 2014
STATEMENT OF WILLIAM W. THOMPSON, Ph.D., REGARDING THE 2004 ARTICLE EXAMINING THE POSSIBILITY OF A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MMR VACCINE AND AUTISM

My name is William Thompson. I am a Senior Scientist with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where I have worked since 1998.

I regret that my co-authors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism.

Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data were collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed.

I want to be absolutely clear that I believe vaccines have saved and continue to save countless lives. I would never suggest that any parent avoid vaccinating children of any race. Vaccines prevent serious diseases, and the risks associated with their administration are vastly outweighed by their individual and societal benefits.

My concern has been the decision to omit relevant findings in a particular study for a particular sub* group for a particular vaccine. There have always been recognized risks for vaccination and I believe it is the responsibility of the CDC to properly convey the risks associated with receipt of those vaccines.”

He continued:

“I have had many discussions with Dr. Brian Hooker over the last 10 months regarding studies the CDC has carried out regarding vaccines and neurodevelopmental outcomes including autism spectrum disorders. I share his belief that CDC decision-making and analyses should be transparent. I was not, however, aware that he was recording any of our conversations, nor was I given any choice regarding whether my name would be made public or my voice would be put on the Internet.” [3]

In other words, if Dr. Hooker had not had the tenacity and foresight to record those telephone calls, lifting the lid on the CDC’s deception, it is unlikely that this information would have ever been made public.

Example #2: Fact – Thimerosal in Vaccinations Can Cause Children to Develop Tics

cont. at: https://vactruth.com/2014/09/10/cdc-...and-dangerous/


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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
...so their retraction, especially when it would greatly diminish their profits (and you cannot separate the two), is no surprise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
Please identify how the Lancet retracting Wakefield's study
12 years after the date of publication impacted "their" profits. Who profited, again?
You decide who is profiting by keeping the truth at bay.

ANDREW WAKEFIELD

[Wondering about vaccines and autism? Wonder why they won’t really study it? Wonder what takes priority: vaccine safety or sales?

For the past decade we have all heard Andrew Wakefield universally vilified throughout popular media in the most vicious way. In truth, Andrew Wakefield is a scientist of the highest moral calibre, not to mention highest clinical standards. Wakefield has been unrelentingly scapegoated by medicine for one primary reason: he puts the welfare of children ahead of a misplaced protectionism of the vaccine industry.

There has been a virtual blackout on Wakefield’s side of the story throughout all media during all this time, for obvious reasons. Control of mainstream media by drug company advertising. The result is a classical E.L. Bernays media technique in which the real story – dangerous vaccines and autism – is eclipsed by a phony, sensational story – a groundless ad personam attack on one guy.

So for once, let’s hear Dr Wakefield’s side of the story in these two interviews: ]
.
Statement From Dr. Andrew Wakefield: No Fraud. No Hoax. No Profit Motive.
AUSTIN, Texas, Jan. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire/ —

Dr. Andrew Wakefield issued the following statement today on the recent British Medical Journal articles:

“The British Medical Journal and reporter Brian Deer recently alleged that my 1998 research paper was ‘a hoax’ and ‘an elaborate fraud’ and that my motivation was profit.

“I want to make one thing crystal clear for the record – my research and the serious medical problems found in those children were not a hoax and there was no fraud whatsoever. Nor did I seek to profit from our findings.

“I stand by the Lancet paper’s methodology and the results which call for more research into whether environmental triggers cause gastrointestinal disease and developmental regression in children. In fact, despite media reports to the contrary, the results of my research have been duplicated in five other countries (to see citations to studies, visit Peer Reviewed Papers Support Findings - AGE OF AUTISM.)

“It is not unexpected to see poor reporting and misinformation coming from Brian Deer, the lead reporter of the recent BMJ coverage. But to see coverage in other media that cites Deer’s shoddy journalism in the BMJ as a final justification to claim there is no link between vaccines and autism is ludicrous. The MMR is only one vaccine of the eleven vaccinations on the pediatric schedule that has been studied for causing developmental problems such as autism. That is fact, not opinion. Any medical professional, government official or journalist who states that the case is closed on whether vaccines cause autism is jumping to conclusions without the research to back it up.

“I continue to fully support more independent research to determine if environmental triggers, including vaccines, are causing autism and other developmental problems. The current rate of autism is 1 in 110 children in the United States and 1 in 64 children in the U.K. My goal has always been and will remain the health and safety of children. Since the Lancet paper, I have lost my job, my career and my country. To claim that my motivation was profit is patently untrue. I will not be deterred – this issue is far too important.”
**********
**********
Interview with Dr. Andrew Wakefield, 10 Apr 2010

cont. at: ANDREW WAKEFIELD | The Doctor Within

Leadership & Longevity - Dr. Andrew Wakefield: CDC Whistleblower, Autism & Mandatory Vaccination - YouTube
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  #4559  
Old 06-10-2016, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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They took away a doctor's medical license for no reason other than he was a threat to the organization. That is corrupt!
:lol: They took away his medical license for his unethical experimentation on children. Like Dr. Geier, another fraudulent quack.
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  #4560  
Old 06-10-2016, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
They took away a doctor's medical license for no reason other than he was a threat to the organization. That is corrupt!
:lol: They took away his medical license for his unethical experimentation on children. Like Dr. Geier, another fraudulent quack.
You're wrong. I realize that there is no getting through to any of you.
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  #4561  
Old 06-10-2016, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
They took away a doctor's medical license for no reason other than he was a threat to the organization. That is corrupt!
:lol: They took away his medical license for his unethical experimentation on children. Like Dr. Geier, another fraudulent quack.
You're wrong. I realize that there is no getting through to any of you.
:ohnoes:

But but but I cannot look to something else to confirm what I know to be true, and I don't have to!
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  #4562  
Old 06-10-2016, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
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Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
They took away a doctor's medical license for no reason other than he was a threat to the organization. That is corrupt!
:lol: They took away his medical license for his unethical experimentation on children. Like Dr. Geier, another fraudulent quack.
You're wrong. I realize that there is no getting through to any of you.
:ohnoes:

But but but I cannot look to something else to confirm what I know to be true, and I don't have to!
That's right. For example, I don't need something else to confirm the fact that one plus one equals two because I know it is two. There are many things in life that don't require this type of confirmation. In the case of Andrew Wakefield, there needs to be something else to confirm what really happened because there have been allegations made against him that are just not true.
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Old 06-10-2016, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

CDC Whistleblower revealed
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Old 06-10-2016, 11:09 PM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Again question, if I watch his defense video am I then allowed to criticize him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You're wrong. I realize that there is no getting through to any of you.
Oh the Irony!
(Like rain on your wedding day, because you just got vaccinated and Vaccines cause rain.)
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  #4565  
Old 06-10-2016, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
Again question, if I watch his defense video am I then allowed to criticize him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You're wrong. I realize that there is no getting through to any of you.
Oh the Irony!
(Like rain on your wedding day, because you just got vaccinated and Vaccines cause rain.)
You're really displaying your ignorance Ari. I do suggest you look at the videos I posted. If you still think he's a fraud after hearing him out, then at least you gave him a fair shake. As for me, I think he was used as a scapegoat. It's really sad but he's making a comeback.
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  #4566  
Old 06-10-2016, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
Again question, if I watch his defense video am I then allowed to criticize him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You're wrong. I realize that there is no getting through to any of you.
Oh the Irony!
(Like rain on your wedding day, because you just got vaccinated and Vaccines cause rain.)
You're really displaying your ignorance Ari. I do suggest you look at the videos I posted. If you still think he's a fraud after hearing him out, then at least you gave him a fair shake. As for me, I think he was used as a scapegoat. It's really unfortunate, but the good news is that the truth is finally coming out. Interesting how the truth always wins in the end! :yup:
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  #4567  
Old 06-10-2016, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Vaccines Caused My Child’s Autism and Are Destroying Our Children - YouTube
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  #4568  
Old 06-10-2016, 11:33 PM
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Interesting how the truth always wins in the end! :yup:
Figures don't lie, but liers can sure figure.
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Old 06-10-2016, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

peacegirl, I cannot look to something else to confirm what I know to be true, and I don't have to.
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  #4570  
Old 06-10-2016, 11:41 PM
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:reporter:
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  #4571  
Old 06-10-2016, 11:46 PM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
 
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You're really displaying your ignorance Ari.
Asking a question is ignorance?
Are you actually Awareness?

Nice dodge, I ask again, if I watch his video, does that allow me to criticize him because I was willing to listen to his side?
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  #4572  
Old 06-10-2016, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You're really displaying your ignorance Ari.
Asking a question is ignorance?
Are you actually Awareness?

Nice dodge, I ask again, if I watch his video, does that allow me to criticize him because I was willing to listen to his side?
At least you will have listened to his side. If you still want to criticize him, be my guest.
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  #4573  
Old 06-11-2016, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
You are mistaking hearsay with historical fact. It is not hearsay that Wakefield's license to practice medicine was revoked in Britain. It is not hearsay that he was found negligent and to have abused his patients.
That is not historical fact. That is ONLY one version of what happened.
So there's a history where Wakefield didn't get his license revoked? There's a historical record where the findings of the GMC didn't say that Wakefield was negligent and abused autistic children? Because those are the historical facts- they are not actually debatable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
It is not hearsay that the Lancet retracted his paper in full. It is not hearsay that many of the doctors on that paper retracted their support.
That is true, but the reason for the retraction is in question.
You mean the anti-vax speculative fictions where the others removed themselves from Wakefield's study because of a vast conspiracy that has no evidence to support it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
You have failed to get any testimony from the person being accused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
:facepalm: Really? Wakefield has a reasonable explanation regarding lumbar punctures on autistic children, that were entirely for research and not treatment, and why that wasn't cleared by an ethics board? Wakefield explained away doctoring patient histories? Wakefield had a good reason to pay children at his son's birthday party to provide on-the spot blood samples for his research? Wakefield has a credible explanation for the multiple studies using much larger sample sizes that looked at the same criteria and found none of the links Wakefield claims to have found in his fraudulent, doctored "study"?
Maybe this will help get to the bottom of what happened.

Dr. Andrew Wakefield Deals With Allegations - Vaxxed
Lumbar punctures: not mentioned.
Doctoring patient histories: not mentioned.
Drawing blood samples for his research by paying children at his son's birthday party? mentioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wakefield
The only problem was that it did not have an approval from the Hospital Ethics Committee.That does not make it unethical. It was done, as I say, with fully informed child and parental consent. That’s the story. Do I regret it? Yes. Not because it was unethical, it wasn’t, but because it gave the General Medical Council a concrete reason for them taking away my license. It was a mistake, and if I did it again, I would do so with the appropriate ethical approval, and so therefore, it’s something I regret. Was it at any stage unethical? No.
It is hardly ethical to not have your actions as a doctor cleared with the ethics board, when it is required.
Multiple studies that found no connection between MMR and autism? no mention by Wakefield in your link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
Due process has a clear legal meaning, which you appear to not understand. Please identify when and where Wakefield was denied his legal right to due process. What crimes was he charged with, in the British courts?
He was charged with fraud.
In what court? And once he was charged, how specifically were his legal due process rights denied?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
They took away a doctor's medical license for no reason other than he was a threat to the organization. That is corrupt!
Not in evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You decide who is profiting by keeping the truth at bay.
That's not how it works. You are stating that "they" profited by retracting the Lancet study 12 years after it was published. I am asking you who "they" are and how "they" specifically profited. Back your argument or don't.
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  #4574  
Old 06-11-2016, 11:48 AM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
You are mistaking hearsay with historical fact. It is not hearsay that Wakefield's license to practice medicine was revoked in Britain. It is not hearsay that he was found negligent and to have abused his patients.
That is not historical fact. That is ONLY one version of what happened.
So there's a history where Wakefield didn't get his license revoked?
It is a fact that he was found negligent, but it is not a fact that he was negligent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
There's a historical record where the findings of the GMC didn't say that Wakefield was negligent and abused autistic children? Because those are the historical facts- they are not actually debatable.
Maybe I wasn't clear. He was found negligent (that's a fact) but he WAS NOT negligent in anything he did (that's also a fact).

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
It is not hearsay that the Lancet retracted his paper in full. It is not hearsay that many of the doctors on that paper retracted their support.
That is true, but the reason for the retraction is in question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
You mean the anti-vax speculative fictions where the others removed themselves from Wakefield's study because of a vast conspiracy that has no evidence to support it?
I don't know anything about parents removing their children from the study. They came to him for his professional opinion. He didn't solicit them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl
You have failed to get any testimony from the accused, namely, Dr. Wakefield.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
:facepalm: Really? Wakefield has a reasonable explanation regarding lumbar punctures on autistic children, that were entirely for research and not treatment, and why that wasn't cleared by an ethics board? Wakefield explained away doctoring patient histories?
What do you mean "he explained away doctoring patient histories?" Prove to me that he did this, or else you're no better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
Wakefield had a good reason to pay children at his son's birthday party to provide on-the spot blood samples for his research? Wakefield has a credible explanation for the multiple studies using much larger sample sizes that looked at the same criteria and found none of the links Wakefield claims to have found in his fraudulent, doctored "study"?
Where was the study fraudulent? He didn't claim there was a causal link. He found an association which formed the basis of a hypothesis. He stated it needed further investigation.

Quote:
Maybe this will help get to the bottom of what happened.

Dr. Andrew Wakefield Deals With Allegations - Vaxxed
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
Lumbar punctures: not mentioned.
MMR controversy doctor wins High Court battle against being struck off
00:00, 8 MAR 2012 UPDATED 15:16, 14 JAN 2013
BY LACHLAN MACKINNON
Professor John Walker-Smith had been found guilty of professional misconduct following accusations of taking part, without ethical approval,


An eminent doctor was celebrating a dramatic victory yesterday after the High Court ruled that a decision to strike him off over the MMR controversy was unlawful.

Professor John Walker-Smith had been found guilty of professional misconduct following accusations of taking part, without ethical approval, in controversial research that caused a global scare by suggesting a link between the MMR vaccine, bowel disease and autism.

The doctor, who is in his 70s and retired, denied allegations that he had participated in the research under the guise of carrying out clinical investigations and treatment of young patients.

He said the treatments, including lumbar punctures and colonoscopies, were clinically indicated and were necessary for the purposes of diagnosis and treatment, but not for a research project.

MMR controversy doctor John Walker-Smith wins High Court battle against being struck off - Mirror Online[/B]


Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
Doctoring patient histories: not mentioned.
THE MMR VACCINE IS NOT HOLY WATER

Dr. Sherri Tenpenny, DO
February 17, 2009
NewsWithViews.com

For nearly a decade, the British General Medical Council (GMC), the equivalent of a U.S State Medical Board on steroids, has been taking Dr. Andrew Wakefield to task for daring to suggest that autism could be caused by the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine. This week proved that the inquisition continues. The Times UK published a report written by commissioned journalist, Brian Deer, claiming that “confidential medical documents and interviews with witnesses” have established that Andrew Wakefield manipulated patients’ data.[1] Deer claims that Dr. Wakefield’s “misleading and inaccurate” research about the MMR has lead to reduced vaccination rates and a resurgence of measles. And while the bickering about the MMR continues, the number of children who have been lost to autism continues to soar.

<snip>

Parents implored him to examine their children who had developed autistic tendencies and severe bowel disorders soon after receiving the MMR vaccine. Was there a connection? Colonoscopies were performed and the tissue samples from the each of the children surprisingly contained vaccine-strain measles virus. In 1998, he was the lead author in a paper published in The Lancet which concluded, “We did not prove an association between measles, mumps and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described…Further investigations are needed to examine this syndrome and its possible relation to this vaccine.”[8]

The personal and professional attacks began shortly after his case report was published. It was impossible to predict that this single, observational paper would lead to years of vile phlegm being spewed at him for the mere suggestion of an association between a vaccine and autism. He concluded his story with a reflection that, had he foreseen the onslaught that was to follow, perhaps he would have treated the children without fanfare and without publishing his findings.

Undeterred by the verbal and legal assaults, his research continued. He told of a time when he hand-delivered well-designed studies to a top Merck executive, imploring him to examine the data that strongly suggested an association between the measles virus and autism. In a follow up conversation with this very senior executive, Dr. Andy asked, “Did you bother to read any of those studies I gave you?” The Merck executive flatly replied, “We don’t have to.”

We don’t have to? Does that mean Merck makes the rules about the MMR? Does that mean Merck can deny the research of Dr. Wakefield, and subsequently, many others who have seen a correlation between the MMR and autism? One thing is certain: The good doctor poked a stick in the eye of an unfriendly giant named Merck. The giant joined forces with his powerful buddies in the Public Health Department and British National Health Service. Together, they have worked every angle to ensure that Dr. Wakefield’s reputation would be destroyed and any connection between the MMR vaccine and autism would be negated. Perhaps it is not a coincidence that the renewed attacks on Dr Wakefield began within days of the Vaccine Court’s proclamation that there is no connection between the MMR and autism.

cont. at: Sherri Tenpenny -- The MMR Vaccine Is Not Holy Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
Drawing blood samples for his research by paying children at his son's birthday party? mentioned.
Is that it? You aren't going to admit you were wrong and you accused him without any foundation? I'll say it if you won't. YOU WERE WRONG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wakefield
The only problem was that it did not have an approval from the Hospital Ethics Committee.That does not make it unethical. It was done, as I say, with fully informed child and parental consent. That’s the story. Do I regret it? Yes. Not because it was unethical, it wasn’t, but because it gave the General Medical Council a concrete reason for them taking away my license. It was a mistake, and if I did it again, I would do so with the appropriate ethical approval, and so therefore, it’s something I regret. Was it at any stage unethical? No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
It is hardly ethical to not have your actions as a doctor cleared with the ethics board, when it is required.
He may have not gotten ethical approval (which he said he regrets since they used this to revoke his medical license), but he was above board with everything he did. Parents were notified and they gave their consent. That was the ethical thing to do, and he did it. :yup:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
Multiple studies that found no connection between MMR and autism? no mention by Wakefield in your link.
We're back at square one. You're like a sieve. Whatever I say goes right through you. It's like you never heard a thing I said.

What are you talking about "there is no mention of Wakefield in my link". What link are you referring to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
Due process has a clear legal meaning, which you appear to not understand. Please identify when and where Wakefield was denied his legal right to due process. What crimes was he charged with, in the British courts?
Quote:
He was charged with fraud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
In what court? And once he was charged, how specifically were his legal due process rights denied?
Oh, come on chunksmediocrites. This is getting redundant. There was definite collusion to oust this man without the due process that would have allowed him to clear his name. He was railroaded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
They took away a doctor's medical license for no reason other than he was a threat to the organization. That is corrupt!
Not in evidence.
So you don't believe that this was the underlying reason they made a scapegoat out of him? You're in denial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You decide who is profiting by keeping the truth at bay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites
That's not how it works. You are stating that "they" profited by retracting the Lancet study 12 years after it was published. I am asking you who "they" are and how "they" specifically profited. Back your argument or don't.
They may not have profited directly, but they definitely made sure that when parents google, they would find tons of articles saying that there is no link and it was all fudged. The industry (which includes everyone involved in the production and sale of this vaccine) did everything they could to squelch his findings so that they would not lose this income. I don't care if you think I am a conspiracy theorist. I truly believe they were conspiring to make him an example in order to gain the public's trust and to make sure that other doctors would never attempt to speak out, or else the same thing would happen to them.
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Last edited by peacegirl; 06-11-2016 at 06:22 PM.
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  #4575  
Old 06-11-2016, 12:54 PM
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Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
What do you mean "not in evidence"? So you don't believe that this was the underlying reason they made a scapegoat out of him? If you don't see this, you're in denial.
Awesome PG sentence. Like saying "Do you not feel that NASA published those doctired photos with the underlying reason of faking the moonlandings? You're in denial! Why else would they do it?"

But the whole question is - where the moonlandings real? Where the pictures doctored? That is what we were looking at.

In this case the question is: was revoking Wakefields license justified?

in a fitness to practice hearing he was charged with:

Quote:
"Was being paid to conduct the study by solicitors representing parents who believed their children had been harmed by MMR".[87]
This was found to be correct.

Quote:
Ordered investigations "without the requisite paediatric qualifications" including colonoscopies, colon biopsies and lumbar punctures ("spinal taps") on his research subjects without the approval of his department's ethics board and contrary to the children's clinical interests,[87] when these diagnostic tests were not indicated by the children's symptoms or medical history.
This was found to be correct.

Quote:
"Act[ed] 'dishonestly and irresponsibly' in failing to disclose ... how patients were recruited for the study".[87]
This was found to be correct, and incidentally helped create the results he wanted.
Quote:
"Conduct[ed] the study on a basis not approved by the hospital's ethics committee."[87]
This was found to be correct

Quote:
Purchased blood samples—for Ł5 each—from children present at his son's birthday party, which Wakefield joked about in a later presentation.[87]
Wakefield actually joked about this.

Quote:
"[S]howed callous disregard for any distress or pain the children might suffer"[18]
The Council ruled this was also the case.

Of course, it was also found that he was simultaneously running a company called Carmel Healhcare (named after his wife) together with one of the parents of a test subject which was going to make a killing selling diagnostic kits... IF the study caused a huge scare.

Could he have been simply looking to make a buck and help people at the same time? Maybe. It is not impossible. But if we consider that lab results where changed deliberately, AND that he did not declare this blatant conflict of interest makes this incredibly unlikely.

All in all, I think Wakefield got off lightly.
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Thanks, from:
Angakuk (06-14-2016), But (06-11-2016), chunksmediocrites (06-11-2016), Crumb (06-12-2016), The Man (06-11-2016)
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