Go Back   Freethought Forum > The Public Baths > Lifestyle

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #7001  
Old 05-17-2017, 02:06 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XVMMMDXLIII
Images: 2
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Oh yes you are, very fat! :biglaugh:

Fat | Define Fat at Dictionary.com
4. profitable, as an office:
a fat job on the city commission.

5. affording good opportunities, especially for gain:
a fat business contract.

6. wealthy; prosperous; rich:
He grew fat on dishonest profits.

18. the richest or best part of anything.

20. Slang. especially profitable or advantageous work.


:chin: Maybe I am fat after all...

But I am also bonified! :bunnythrust:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), chunksmediocrites (05-17-2017), Pan Narrans (05-17-2017), Stephen Maturin (05-17-2017), Stormlight (05-18-2017), The Man (05-17-2017), Vivisectus (05-17-2017)
  #7002  
Old 05-17-2017, 04:12 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMMMCDXXVII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Oh yes you are, very fat! :biglaugh:

Fat | Define Fat at Dictionary.com
4. profitable, as an office:
a fat job on the city commission.

5. affording good opportunities, especially for gain:
a fat business contract.

6. wealthy; prosperous; rich:
He grew fat on dishonest profits.

18. the richest or best part of anything.

20. Slang. especially profitable or advantageous work.


:chin: Maybe I am fat after all...

But I am also bonified! :bunnythrust:
Of course you leave out the one definition that fits you.

dull;stupid :laughdie:
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #7003  
Old 05-17-2017, 04:29 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XVMMMDXLIII
Images: 2
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Of course you leave out the one definition that fits you.

dull;stupid :laughdie:
peacegirl, how readily you resort to insults and ad hominem attacks to avoid the issue of deathbelts killing precious, delicate children! (But, peacegirl, as usual you rather miss the point - when you called me a "big fat troll" I humorously objected only to the adjective "fat," thus implicitly approving of "big" and "troll." Though I'm not especially big, either.)



peacegirl, if deathbelts make you "safer," why are fatal crashes are more likely to involve drivers who are wrapped in deathbelts?

Here is a hint: what ELSE could explain this trend?
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), Stephen Maturin (05-17-2017), The Man (05-17-2017)
  #7004  
Old 05-17-2017, 05:01 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMMMCDXXVII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Of course you leave out the one definition that fits you.

dull;stupid :laughdie:
peacegirl, how readily you resort to insults and ad hominem attacks to avoid the issue of deathbelts killing precious, delicate children! (But, peacegirl, as usual you rather miss the point - when you called me a "big fat troll" I humorously objected only to the adjective "fat," thus implicitly approving of "big" and "troll." Though I'm not especially big, either.)



peacegirl, if deathbelts make you "safer," why are fatal crashes are more likely to involve drivers who are wrapped in deathbelts?

Here is a hint: what ELSE could explain this trend?
Give me the link that showed the graph. :rolleyes:
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #7005  
Old 05-17-2017, 05:15 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XVMMMDXLIII
Images: 2
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Of course you leave out the one definition that fits you.

dull;stupid :laughdie:
peacegirl, how readily you resort to insults and ad hominem attacks to avoid the issue of deathbelts killing precious, delicate children! (But, peacegirl, as usual you rather miss the point - when you called me a "big fat troll" I humorously objected only to the adjective "fat," thus implicitly approving of "big" and "troll." Though I'm not especially big, either.)



peacegirl, if deathbelts make you "safer," why are fatal crashes are more likely to involve drivers who are wrapped in deathbelts?

Here is a hint: what ELSE could explain this trend?
Give me the link that showed the graph. :rolleyes:
peacegirl, I made the graph. I wrote the source of the data right there on the graph so that anyone looking at it could see it plainly. I know why it was invisible to you, though. Nice due diligence, there.

FARS Encyclopedia
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), The Man (05-17-2017)
  #7006  
Old 05-17-2017, 05:33 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMMMCDXXVII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Of course you leave out the one definition that fits you.

dull;stupid :laughdie:
peacegirl, how readily you resort to insults and ad hominem attacks to avoid the issue of deathbelts killing precious, delicate children! (But, peacegirl, as usual you rather miss the point - when you called me a "big fat troll" I humorously objected only to the adjective "fat," thus implicitly approving of "big" and "troll." Though I'm not especially big, either.)



peacegirl, if deathbelts make you "safer," why are fatal crashes are more likely to involve drivers who are wrapped in deathbelts?

Here is a hint: what ELSE could explain this trend?
Give me the link that showed the graph. :rolleyes:
peacegirl, I made the graph. I wrote the source of the data right there on the graph so that anyone looking at it could see it plainly. I know why it was invisible to you, though. Nice due diligence, there.

FARS Encyclopedia
Uh huh, exactly. There is no graph from FARS encyclopedia depicting that more fatal crashes involving drivers using seatbelts. You fabricate.
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #7007  
Old 05-17-2017, 05:35 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XVMMMDXLIII
Images: 2
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
peacegirl, I made the graph. I wrote the source of the data right there on the graph so that anyone looking at it could see it plainly. I know why it was invisible to you, though. Nice due diligence, there.

FARS Encyclopedia
Uh huh, exactly. There is no graph from FARS encyclopedia depicting that more fatal crashes involving drivers using seatbelts. You fabricate.
:lol: Yes, peacegirl, I made the graph - that is what you might call critical analysis that I conducted myself! You know, like a concerned parent!

peacegirl, if you knew how to do that, you could even make a graph of the FARS data yourself! But you don't. So you can't.

However, thank you for this addition to category 2 of my filing system. Give me a couple of minutes to find an appropriate place to use it.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), chunksmediocrites (05-17-2017), The Man (05-17-2017)
  #7008  
Old 05-17-2017, 05:38 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XVMMMDXLIII
Images: 2
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Found one! I think I can get a little mileage out of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Swift Journal of Medicine and Medical Sciences (SJMMS)
August 2015 Vol. 1(2), pp. 012-017
Copyright 2015 Swift Journals


Original Research Paper

Mycoplasma Fermentans and Deciliation as a Precursor to Regressive Autism.

Bill Welsh

Founder and Honorary President, Autism Treatment Trust, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK


*Corresponding Author E-mail: bwautismtrust@aol.com

Accepted 4 September, 2015


Abstract

Autism and related spectrum disorders (ASD), once rare, are now common. Today, over 100,000 school children in the UK has an autism/ASD diagnosis (1). It is forecast that this number will increase to 250,000 by the year 2023 (see graph).
peacegirl, can you link to the page by the Scottish Governments Education Analytical Services Division that shows the graph?
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), The Man (05-17-2017)
  #7009  
Old 05-17-2017, 05:54 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMMMCDXXVII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
peacegirl, I made the graph. I wrote the source of the data right there on the graph so that anyone looking at it could see it plainly. I know why it was invisible to you, though. Nice due diligence, there.

FARS Encyclopedia
Uh huh, exactly. There is no graph from FARS encyclopedia depicting that more fatal crashes involving drivers using seatbelts. You fabricate.
:lol: Yes, peacegirl, I made the graph - that is what you might call critical analysis that I conducted myself! You know, like a concerned parent!

peacegirl, if you knew how to do that, you could even make a graph of the FARS data yourself! But you don't. So you can't.

However, thank you for this addition to category 2 of my filing system. Give me a couple of minutes to find an appropriate place to use it.
You're a big fat troll!
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #7010  
Old 05-17-2017, 06:02 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMMMCDXXVII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Found one! I think I can get a little mileage out of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Swift Journal of Medicine and Medical Sciences (SJMMS)
August 2015 Vol. 1(2), pp. 012-017
Copyright 2015 Swift Journals


Original Research Paper

Mycoplasma Fermentans and Deciliation as a Precursor to Regressive Autism.

Bill Welsh

Founder and Honorary President, Autism Treatment Trust, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK


*Corresponding Author E-mail: bwautismtrust@aol.com

Accepted 4 September, 2015


Abstract

Autism and related spectrum disorders (ASD), once rare, are now common. Today, over 100,000 school children in the UK has an autism/ASD diagnosis (1). It is forecast that this number will increase to 250,000 by the year 2023 (see graph).
peacegirl, can you link to the page by the Scottish Governments Education Analytical Services Division that shows the graph?
Nope I didn't find the graph but at least I didn't fabricate one like you did. :giggle:

__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #7011  
Old 05-17-2017, 06:08 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMMMCDXXVII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Looks like prevention is the only solution because, according to these stats, age-appropriate devices didn't do much to prevent fatalities.

Of the 451 children ages 8 and under who died in MVCs in 2014, 116 (26 percent) were not restrained by an age-appropriate device such as infant car seat, booster seat or seat belt. This age group was responsible for 15 percent of childhood MV fatalities.
13

https://www.safekids.org/sites/defau...2016_final.pdf
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill

Last edited by peacegirl; 05-17-2017 at 06:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7012  
Old 05-17-2017, 06:15 PM
chunksmediocrites's Avatar
chunksmediocrites chunksmediocrites is offline
ne plus ultraviolet
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portland Oregon USA
Gender: Male
Posts: MVCMLI
Images: 294
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
...fabricate.
What exactly are you accusing ChuckF of fabricating, if he
1. Identified the source of his data
2. Took exact data points from that source and put it on a graph.

I don't think you can identify any point in ChuckF's graph information where he made any data up- i.e. fabricated- because he didn't.

Which means your sophistication in parsing data- for many reasons- is lacking. Or you make accusations without thinking them through, or possibly caring if they are true; or some combination of the three.

You continue to refuse to explain why the data ChuckF graphed shows an increased use of deathbelts among auto fatalities because you don't know how to analyse what you've been presented.

Knowing how to read data and do basic troubleshooting for veracity would be a good skill for a parent wishing to undertake due diligence, let alone an internet windbag full of opinions based on highly flawed data parsing skills.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), But (05-17-2017), ChuckF (05-17-2017), specious_reasons (05-17-2017), Stephen Maturin (05-17-2017), The Lone Ranger (05-17-2017), The Man (05-17-2017), Vivisectus (05-18-2017)
  #7013  
Old 05-17-2017, 06:40 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMMMCDXXVII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
...fabricate.
What exactly are you accusing ChuckF of fabricating, if he
1. Identified the source of his data
2. Took exact data points from that source and put it on a graph.

I don't think you can identify any point in ChuckF's graph information where he made any data up- i.e. fabricated- because he didn't.

Which means your sophistication in parsing data- for many reasons- is lacking. Or you make accusations without thinking them through, or possibly caring if they are true; or some combination of the three.

You continue to refuse to explain why the data ChuckF graphed shows an increased use of deathbelts among auto fatalities because you don't know how to analyse what you've been presented.

Knowing how to read data and do basic troubleshooting for veracity would be a good skill for a parent wishing to undertake due diligence, let alone an internet windbag full of opinions based on highly flawed data parsing skills.
Look Chunksmediocrites, I don't care whether his graph is based on real data or not. I get nauseous reading his posts. He isn't trying to have a respectful discussion. He is trying to throw me under the bus (by patronizing me) in order to prove that I am not capable of knowing whether my father has a discovery. That's why certain people keep coming to this thread, not because they are interested in vaccination. Finally, if he was right in his parsing of the data, then legislating seat belt use based on the belief that they save more lives than not, is not even true. You talk about parents troubleshooting for veracity by doing their due diligence, which is very noble, but in the case of seatbelts they don't have a choice so doing their due diligence will only cause frustration.
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Stephen Maturin (05-17-2017)
  #7014  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:16 PM
But's Avatar
But But is online now
This is the title that appears beneath your name on your posts.
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: MVCLXXIII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
He is trying to throw me under the bus (by patronizing me) in order to prove that I am not capable of knowing whether my father has a discovery.
peacegirl, have you called NASA yet?
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), ChuckF (05-17-2017), Stephen Maturin (05-17-2017), The Man (05-17-2017)
  #7015  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:01 PM
Stephen Maturin's Avatar
Stephen Maturin Stephen Maturin is offline
Refreshingly Stupid
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Juggalonia
Posts: VMCMLXXXIX
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
We live in a legalistic society for good reason (we're not in the new world yet).
Yes yes, we all long for the day when blameful rhetoric like "date rape" falls by the wayside in due time. What does that have to do with government stripping away parental rights in the here and now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
But when it comes to telling an adult he has to buckle up, that has gone too far because no one is at risk, other than him.
Utterly bereft of truth. Let us suppose, strictly for discussion's sake, that the deathbelt industry's safety propaganda is true. On that assumption, an adult is placing himself at risk of injury or death by not buckling up.

Let's suppose that an adult opts not to buckle up and gets involved in a crash. The adult is injured or killed, and using a seat belt would have prevented the injury or death. A moment's reflection would easily reveal that not using a seat belt placed virtually everyone at some sort of risk:

- Suppose our adult was transported to a hospital by ambulance. When I had my heart attack nine years ago, an ambulance owned and operated by a government agency took me to a hospital. If our hypothetical crash occurs in an area with government-provided ambulance service, then our hypothetical injured adult will travel on a government ambulance as well. While on that run, the ambulance crew is unavailable to answer other emergencies that might arise. Thus, by sustaining an injury that a seat belt would have prevented, our adult has adversely affected other local citizens in emergent circumstances as well as local (and likely state) taxpayers generally.

- Suppose the nearest hospital is government-run. In that event, taxpayers are again footing the bill for the injured adult's decision to forego buckling up.

- Suppose that the injuries are serious and the required medical treatment extensive. Once the injured adult's insurer pays, the insurer will pass along the cost in the form of higher premiums. That adversely affects employers who provide health insurance for their employees through that company and individuals who have policies with that company.

- It's worse still if the injured adult is elderly or indigent. In that event, the Medicare and/or Medicaid programs will pay for the treatment, such that the injured person's decision not to buckle up adversely affects millions of federal and state taxpayers.

- And it REALLY gets bad if our hypothetical adult was just uninsured and incapable of paying his bills, but not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid. In that event, the injured person will likely seek bankruptcy protection. The taxpayers foot the bill for bankruptcy court services (filing fees don't come close to paying for all a court does) and the doctors and hospitals who treated the injured person get stiffed to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. That lost revenue gets factored into the cost of health care generally, and adversely affects not only taxpayers but everyone who uses health care services.

- On a smaller scale, let's suppose that the adult injured or killed because of not using a seat belt was providing for a family. Maybe the surviving spouse gets stuck having to take on a job, thereby depriving the children of the benefits of a stay-at-home parent. Perhaps one or more of the young 'uns will need to get jobs as well, which means less time to pursue education. Perhaps despite all their efforts the family needs public assistance, which would affect taxpayers in addition to the family itself.

- And, of course, there's the grief of the people who care about the injured or killed person. That's yet another harm that wouldn't have occurred but for our hypothetical adult's refusal to buckle up.

We can go on and on, but the point is well and truly made. In short, assuming deathbelt safety propaganda is true, the notion that an adult who knowingly and intentionally fails to buckle up only creates risks for himself is preposterous. :yup:

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
In the case of laws telling parents they must buckle their children in, most parents would willingly put their children in seatbelts, car seats, or booster seats regardless, with enough education as to why they save lives when they are used correctly.
You keep pontificating about what "most parents" would do. Despite what your boy Trump would have you believe, simply saying stuff over and over doesn't make it true.

But let's discuss the real issue here. By claiming that "most parents" would use seat belts and car seats without a government mandate, you're admitting that some parents would not. What about them? What about parents who, in good faith and in reasonable reliance on the burgeoning data regarding the dangers of such devices, decide against strapping their children in? They're pretty much screwed, aren't they? They're stuck with the decision of going against their own conscience and due diligence or facing criminal sanctions (fines and/or imprisonment).

So let's be clear what you're saying here. You're saying that it's OK for the government to make child safety decisions for loving parents who happen to find themselves in the minority, so long as the choice the government makes accords with your idea of what "most parents" would do.

Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
If someone was trapped in a fire or under water, having a utility knife in the console could be used to cut the strap and allow escape which leaves very few people who would die because of these restraints.
Yes, I'm sure an infant who's on fire and strapped into a rear-facing car seat in the back of an SUV will take great comfort in the possibility that she can reach up to the console, grab that utility knife, learn how to use it on the fly, cut herself out of the malfunctioning car seat, and crawl to safety before any real harm befalls her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
This is why legislation doesn't bother me.
Right. As you see it, it's okay for government to legislate child safety in derogation of the rights of "minority" parents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
I am not anti-vaccine. I am safe vaccine
:chin:

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Some people are classified as antivaxxers when they are only advocating safer vaccines. I happen to be a bonafide anti-vaxxer, and I'm proud of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You talk about parents troubleshooting for veracity by doing their due diligence, which is very noble, but in the case of seatbelts they don't have a choice so doing their due diligence will only cause frustration.
So then, according to you, when it comes to the dangers of seat belts and child seats parents should just don their blinders, toe the line, and obey the law like good little sheeple.

You big government authoritarians are all alike.

:Cartler:
__________________
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis

"Psychos don't explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko

"What the fuck is a German muffin?" ~ R. Swanson
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), ChuckF (05-17-2017), chunksmediocrites (05-18-2017), The Man (05-18-2017), Vivisectus (05-18-2017)
  #7016  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:05 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XVMMMDXLIII
Images: 2
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
...fabricate.
What exactly are you accusing ChuckF of fabricating, if he
1. Identified the source of his data
2. Took exact data points from that source and put it on a graph.

I don't think you can identify any point in ChuckF's graph information where he made any data up- i.e. fabricated- because he didn't.
It is not so long ago that peacegirl accused me of "pirating" because I posted links directly to her own public website. Her defamatory accusations are a hurt to me, but they are not an authentic hurt, because as the True Steward of the Authentic Text, I allow for the source. I believe she strikes her first blows out of resentment towards the Author and his Authentic Text, and me as the True Steward of the Authentic Text by extension.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), The Man (05-18-2017), Vivisectus (05-18-2017)
  #7017  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:07 PM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XVMMMDXLIII
Images: 2
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Finally, if he was right in his parsing of the data, then legislating seat belt use based on the belief that they save more lives than not, is not even true.
:facepalm: I really thought I had lobbed the softest of all possible softballs.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), chunksmediocrites (05-18-2017), Stephen Maturin (05-17-2017), The Man (05-18-2017), Vivisectus (05-18-2017)
  #7018  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:10 PM
Stephen Maturin's Avatar
Stephen Maturin Stephen Maturin is offline
Refreshingly Stupid
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Juggalonia
Posts: VMCMLXXXIX
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Proving yet again that is it impossible to underestimate America's favorite public funds thieving layabout.
__________________
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis

"Psychos don't explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko

"What the fuck is a German muffin?" ~ R. Swanson
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), ChuckF (05-17-2017), chunksmediocrites (05-18-2017), The Man (05-18-2017)
  #7019  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:47 PM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMMMCDXXVII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
We live in a legalistic society for good reason (we're not in the new world yet).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Yes yes, we all long for the day when blameful rhetoric like "date rape" falls by the wayside in due time. What does that have to do with government stripping away parental rights in the here and now?
What does blameful rhetoric like "date rape" have to do with the new world? Government, even in our legalistic society, is going overboard with too much power to force compliance over decisions that belong to parents. Obviously, we need government to protect its citizenry against those who would commit serious crimes, but they've stepped over their boundaries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
But when it comes to telling an adult he has to buckle up, that has gone too far because no one is at risk, other than him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Utterly bereft of truth. Let us suppose, strictly for discussion's sake, that the deathbelt industry's safety propaganda is true. On that assumption, an adult is placing himself at risk of injury or death by not buckling up.

Let's suppose that an adult opts not to buckle up and gets involved in a crash. The adult is injured or killed, and using a seat belt would have prevented the injury or death. A moment's reflection would easily reveal that not using a seat belt placed virtually everyone at some sort of risk:

- Suppose our adult was transported to a hospital by ambulance. When I had my heart attack nine years ago, an ambulance owned and operated by a government agency took me to a hospital. If our hypothetical crash occurs in an area with government-provided ambulance service, then our hypothetical injured adult will travel on a government ambulance as well. While on that run, the ambulance crew is unavailable to answer other emergencies that might arise. Thus, by sustaining an injury that a seat belt would have prevented, our adult has adversely affected other local citizens in emergent circumstances as well as local (and likely state) taxpayers generally.

- Suppose the nearest hospital is government-run. In that event, taxpayers are again footing the bill for the injured adult's decision to forego buckling up.

- Suppose that the injuries are serious and the required medical treatment extensive. Once the injured adult's insurer pays, the insurer will pass along the cost in the form of higher premiums. That adversely affects employers who provide health insurance for their employees through that company and individuals who have policies with that company.

- It's worse still if the injured adult is elderly or indigent. In that event, the Medicare and/or Medicaid programs will pay for the treatment, such that the injured person's decision not to buckle up adversely affects millions of federal and state taxpayers.

- And it REALLY gets bad if our hypothetical adult was just uninsured and incapable of paying his bills, but not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid. In that event, the injured person will likely seek bankruptcy protection. The taxpayers foot the bill for bankruptcy court services (filing fees don't come close to paying for all a court does) and the doctors and hospitals who treated the injured person get stiffed to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. That lost revenue gets factored into the cost of health care generally, and adversely affects not only taxpayers but everyone who uses health care services.

- On a smaller scale, let's suppose that the adult injured or killed because of not using a seat belt was providing for a family. Maybe the surviving spouse gets stuck having to take on a job, thereby depriving the children of the benefits of a stay-at-home parent. Perhaps one or more of the young 'uns will need to get jobs as well, which means less time to pursue education. Perhaps despite all their efforts the family needs public assistance, which would affect taxpayers in addition to the family itself.

- And, of course, there's the grief of the people who care about the injured or killed person. That's yet another harm that wouldn't have occurred but for our hypothetical adult's refusal to buckle up.

We can go on and on, but the point is well and truly made. In short, assuming deathbelt safety propaganda is true, the notion that an adult who knowingly and intentionally fails to buckle up only creates risks for himself is preposterous. :yup:
Obviously anyone who loses a loved one who wasn't wearing a seatbelt is tragic, so the goal should be to educate the person as to why wearing a seatbelt would most likely save his life in an accident. I don't think people who choose not to wear a seatbelt are thinking about how their injury or death will impact the government's resources. And no amount of legislation will be fruitful without the education to go with it.

Seatbelt Physics

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
In the case of laws telling parents they must buckle their children in, most parents would willingly put their children in seatbelts, car seats, or booster seats regardless, with enough education as to why they save lives when they are used correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
You keep pontificating about what "most parents" would do. Despite what your boy Trump would have you believe, simply saying stuff over and over doesn't make it true.
He's not my boy. I don't agree with many of his policies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
But let's discuss the real issue here. By claiming that "most parents" would use seat belts and car seats without a government mandate, you're admitting that some parents would not. What about them? What about parents who, in good faith and in reasonable reliance on the burgeoning data regarding the dangers of such devices, decide against strapping their children in? They're pretty much screwed, aren't they? They're stuck with the decision of going against their own conscience and due diligence or facing criminal sanctions (fines and/or imprisonment).

So let's be clear what you're saying here. You're saying that it's OK for the government to make child safety decisions for loving parents who happen to find themselves in the minority, so long as the choice the government makes accords with your idea of what "most parents" would do.

Right?
Wrong, I don't think the government has the right to play the parent role. You are assuming that there are non-negligent parents who would choose to allow their children to ride unrestrained because the burgeoning data of seatbelt risks override the benefits. It seems that the benefits still outweigh the risks. So this leaves, for all intents and purposes, only those parents who are truly negligent and wouldn't give a damn whether their children were strapped in or not because they don't care. Maybe the law would be the only way to get them to comply, but this is not the rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
If someone was trapped in a fire or under water, having a utility knife in the console could be used to cut the strap and allow escape which leaves very few people who would die because of these restraints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Yes, I'm sure an infant who's on fire and strapped into a rear-facing car seat in the back of an SUV will take great comfort in the possibility that she can reach up to the console, grab that utility knife, learn how to use it on the fly, cut herself out of the malfunctioning car seat, and crawl to safety before any real harm befalls her.
No, but a parent could if the knife was right next to him and he used quick thinking. There is no guarantee but under the right conditions it could save the infant and all other occupants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
This is why legislation doesn't bother me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
Right. As you see it, it's okay for government to legislate child safety in derogation of the rights of "minority" parents.
Technically, it's not right just as I don't agree with vaccine mandates. I don't know the stats but for those who die because the seatbelt could not be unbuckled, it's very tragic indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
I am not anti-vaccine. I am safe vaccine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
:chin:
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Some people are classified as antivaxxers when they are only advocating safer vaccines. I happen to be a bonafide anti-vaxxer, and I'm proud of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
I don't believe there is a perfectly safe vaccine, which is why I am an anti-vaxxer but I will allow myself the opportunity to decide if a vaccine may be worth giving under certain conditions. The most recent vaccine schedule is insane. No wonder our children in general have all kinds of chronic conditions. You may not think there is a connection, but I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You talk about parents troubleshooting for veracity by doing their due diligence, which is very noble, but in the case of seatbelts they don't have a choice so doing their due diligence will only cause frustration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin
So then, according to you, when it comes to the dangers of seat belts and child seats parents should just don their blinders, toe the line, and obey the law like good little sheeple.

You big government authoritarians are all alike.

:Cartler:
Most parents do what the law tells them to do because they believe the government probably knows what's best for them. And it beats getting a ticket. :yup:
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill

Last edited by peacegirl; 05-17-2017 at 10:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7020  
Old 05-18-2017, 12:28 AM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMMMCDXXVII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
...fabricate.
What exactly are you accusing ChuckF of fabricating, if he
1. Identified the source of his data
2. Took exact data points from that source and put it on a graph.

I don't think you can identify any point in ChuckF's graph information where he made any data up- i.e. fabricated- because he didn't.
It is not so long ago that peacegirl accused me of "pirating" because I posted links directly to her own public website. Her defamatory accusations are a hurt to me, but they are not an authentic hurt, because as the True Steward of the Authentic Text, I allow for the source. I believe she strikes her first blows out of resentment towards the Author and his Authentic Text, and me as the True Steward of the Authentic Text by extension.
My response is not a hurt to you. You are twisting these principals because you have no understanding and want to cause confusion. You are an ignorant fool.
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #7021  
Old 05-18-2017, 12:34 AM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XVMMMDXLIII
Images: 2
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
...fabricate.
What exactly are you accusing ChuckF of fabricating, if he
1. Identified the source of his data
2. Took exact data points from that source and put it on a graph.

I don't think you can identify any point in ChuckF's graph information where he made any data up- i.e. fabricated- because he didn't.
It is not so long ago that peacegirl accused me of "pirating" because I posted links directly to her own public website. Her defamatory accusations are a hurt to me, but they are not an authentic hurt, because as the True Steward of the Authentic Text, I allow for the source. I believe she strikes her first blows out of resentment towards the Author and his Authentic Text, and me as the True Steward of the Authentic Text by extension.
My response is not a hurt to you. You are twisting these principals because you have no understanding and want to cause confusion. You are an ignorant fool.
Thou shall not blame, peacegirl. Thou shall not blame.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), The Man (05-18-2017), Vivisectus (05-18-2017)
  #7022  
Old 05-18-2017, 12:41 AM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMMMCDXXVII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunksmediocrites View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
...fabricate.
What exactly are you accusing ChuckF of fabricating, if he
1. Identified the source of his data
2. Took exact data points from that source and put it on a graph.

I don't think you can identify any point in ChuckF's graph information where he made any data up- i.e. fabricated- because he didn't.
It is not so long ago that peacegirl accused me of "pirating" because I posted links directly to her own public website. Her defamatory accusations are a hurt to me, but they are not an authentic hurt, because as the True Steward of the Authentic Text, I allow for the source. I believe she strikes her first blows out of resentment towards the Author and his Authentic Text, and me as the True Steward of the Authentic Text by extension.
My response is not a hurt to you. You are twisting these principals because you have no understanding and want to cause confusion. You are an ignorant fool.
Thou shall not blame, peacegirl. Thou shall not blame.
No Chuck, the fact that you use this shows your very deep confusion. You are so lost it's laughable, truly. But it's also sad because so much is riding on the truth. :sadcheer:
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #7023  
Old 05-18-2017, 12:44 AM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XVMMMDXLIII
Images: 2
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

:lol: "Thou shall not blame" is right at the front of category 1 of the filing system.

That, of course, and my True Steward's fidelity to the Authentic Text, and that magic elixir, corollary, slide rule, or basic principle - call it what you will - THOU SHALL NOT BLAME.

Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), chunksmediocrites (05-18-2017), Stephen Maturin (05-18-2017), The Man (05-18-2017)
  #7024  
Old 05-18-2017, 12:55 AM
peacegirl's Avatar
peacegirl peacegirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Posts: XXMMMCDXXVII
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
:lol: "Thou shall not blame" is right at the front of category 1 of the filing system.

That, of course, and my True Steward's fidelity to the Authentic Text, and that magic elixir, corollary, slide rule, or basic principle - call it what you will - THOU SHALL NOT BLAME.

To repeat, you are not a true investigator. Your logic is flawed by any scientific standard. You are the emperor with no clothes. It's so sad that you have this kind of control over a forum whose sole purpose is to weed out people like you. Go figure!
__________________
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing
which is no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors" -- John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #7025  
Old 05-18-2017, 01:00 AM
ChuckF's Avatar
ChuckF ChuckF is offline
liar in wolf's clothing
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frequently about
Posts: XVMMMDXLIII
Images: 2
Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
It's so sad that you have this kind of control over a forum whose sole purpose is to weed out people like you.
:lolwut:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Angakuk (05-18-2017), Dragar (05-18-2017), Pan Narrans (05-18-2017), The Man (05-18-2017), Vivisectus (05-18-2017)
Reply

  Freethought Forum > The Public Baths > Lifestyle


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (2 members and 1 guests)
But
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.31318 seconds with 14 queries