Health Care Reform Dead

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by erimir

[*]Subsidies for health insurance

Useless because the deductible is too expensive to access care. Nothing but a direct payment from government to private insurance corp.

+ expansion of Medicaid for poorer people

Paid for with the regressive inflation tax. Thus these people are worse off, but government bureaucracy expanded. So poor people are paying to fund middle management government jobs.

[*]Ending the ability to refuse coverage based on preexisting conditions

Arguable that this is a benefit to many.

[*]Ending or reducing certain other kinds of discrimination (like different prices by gender, for example)

Teenage boys should pay the same car insurance rate as old ladies. Regardless, all you have done here is transfer the cost of care from those using it to those not using it.

Now a woman that has had a hysterectomy is required to pay for child birth coverage.

Nothing but a pay off to Big Insurance Corp., the cost for everyone went up.

[*]Minimum standards for coverage (including items like contraception coverage, mental health, etc.)

Why does a 60 year old woman need to pay for child birth?

[*]Children can stay on family plans until age 26

How is that a good thing?

Now people are paying for a family policy, which is very expensive, instead of paying for individual policies, which would in total be less expensive.

The mandate is essentially the payment mechanism.

Choice = Freedom

Freedom = Choice

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by erimir

I don't understand why there's nowhere in the US that forces businesses to include sales tax in listed prices, for example.

Because we haven't gotten to the point where hiding the tax paid is an acceptable form of public manipulation.

Do you have a valid reason why people should not know how much tax they are paying?

[erimir]

Who said anything about hiding the amount of tax paid? The amount of tax would still be listed on the receipt.

[Jerome]

What are you talking about then?

A nationwide company has to make 50 different advertisements for each state?

[Crumb]

Republicans have one major problem on Obamacare -...

[JoeP]

What happens when voters find that out? (his closing question)

Bugger all.

A. The gov won't let them find out the truth. Trump will outright lie and say it's already terrific before the 2018 elections.
B. Those that do realise don't even seem to care about facts that directly affect them.

[lisarea]

I'm baffled about what Trump voters thought he was talking about doing. I read some thing the other day from a Trump voter who voted for him because she has a chronic health condition and her insurance premiums were too high, so rather than voting for the one person who was the most qualified to actually fix the problems with the ACA (which were caused by Republican* obstructionism), she voted for some idiot who confidently said he'd make something better, but didn't define what his definition of better was, and didn't say how he'd actually go about it. That woman is going to suffer, and possibly even die because of this, but honestly, I don't have the time or energy to care about the people whose fault this actually is.

They literally have no idea how this stuff works at all. None. These people are fucking idiots, in large part because they refuse to listen to anyone who is patient enough to explain things to them. Fuck them.

* I accidentally wrote "Russian" and had to go back to fix it. I'm pretty sure they don't give a shit about US healthcare, though, so it really is all on the Republicans.

[erimir]

Was it this one?
I voted for Donald Trump, and I already regret it - Vox

Fibromyalgia is not a fatal condition, I don't believe. But her life will get worse, sure.

I find her account of things baffling. She only believed he was a liar after an interview after the election?

Even after all the blatant lies in his campaign? Even though his most famous book basically talks about how great lying is for closing a deal?

I'd like to hear if she ever does some introspection to figure out why she got hoodwinked, but the way she tells it, it was like she was under the spell of tribalism and it wore off after the election. There's some reason she voted for him that I suspect she was unwilling to reveal. The fact that she listed "immigration enforcement" and "pro-life laws" as her top issues is a clue.

(Those being among her top issues also suggests to me that she's lying, or deluding herself, when she says she would've voted for Bernie Sanders. Saying that is just a way of justifying hatred for Hillary, to say it was all about her specifically. Not about Trump's xenophobia, nooooo. Not about sexism, no way. Had Bernie been the nominee, I'm guessing she would've discovered his immigrant-coddling and abortion-supporting ways and decided they were serious problems.)

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by lisarea

the problems with the ACA (which were caused by Republican* obstructionism)

Wrong.

Democratic Congress, Democratic President.

The bill was not allowed to be read before voting on it .. breaking an Obama campaign promise.

The ACA is what lost the democrats the congress.

[Dingfod]

There is some serious buyer's remorse going on, Inauguration attendance was one indicator. My Orange Dumpster Fire voting shiftmates have been strangely silent for over a month now. It took women marching to get their ire up this week, but even then, they still never mentioned His Fraudulency at all. I had (keyword) a few friends whom I don't think voted for Trump, but are telling everyone to give him a chance. One of them also thinks the Cheeto-in-Chief will fix it where she can afford health insurance. I laugh at her naivete. Oh, well. At least there is some little bit of schadenfreude for me.

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by Kamilah Hauptmann

The Democratic Party is a fine moderate conservative party.

I wouldn't go so far as to call them moderate conservatives. Except when compared to the Republicans who are now trying to outnazi the nazis.

[The Man]

All right, let's not engage in hyperbole here. The Republican Party does have some Nazi-like traits, but they haven't started rounding people into camps yet. Until a party starts rounding people up into camps, they can in no way be described as "trying to out-Nazi the Nazis". Granted, notice I said "until", not "unless".

[lpetrich]

Originally Posted by Jerome

Well yea, just like pretty much every idea sold to liberals, ACA was a scam to take from the worker to give to the elite.

Jerome, your political drag-queen act is tiring.

Originally Posted by Jerome

No, it took money from the working class and funneled it to Big Insurance Corp.

You're complaining about that? You never objected to that before the ACA was passed. Seems like more political drag-queen posturing.

[SR71]

This is real Keystone Kops effect stuff here, mang.

The GOP is keeping its Obamacare replacement plan in a 'secure location' — and there is now a hunt to find it - Business Insider

It also appeared that the room in which the bill was being kept was being guarded by Capitol police. The Twitter account for Democratic members of the House Ways and Means Committee tweeted a picture of police standing outside a room in the Capitol, saying, “House Republicans are literally guarding their health care bill with Capitol Police. Is it *that* dangerous?”

But reporters, and even members of Congress, were let in to that room, they found it empty with no apparent piece of legislation in sight. Subsequent reports said the secure location had been moved.

[Stephen Maturin]

lol Should'a kept it in that "secure location" in perpetuity. Great Caesar's Ghost, what a

[Crumb]

encourage people to maintain coverage by allowing insurers to impose a surcharge of 30 percent for those who have a gap between health plans.

Otherwise known as the once you are off plan, you can't afford to get back on provision...

[Zehava]

Originally Posted by Crumb

Otherwise known as the once you are off plan, you can't afford to get back on provision...

Also since this replaces the individual mandate, the money that would have gone to the general fund is now going to the insurance company. Another naked money grab by corporations (and their lackeys).

[Stephen Maturin]

We all figured as much, but we now know exactly why the wingers wanted to ramrod Trumpcare through Congress before the CBO issued its report.

[The Lone Ranger]

So, the plan would wind up transferring yet more wealth from the poor and middle class to the wealthy, and would mean that tens of millions would no longer be insured.


Serious question: Is it required nowadays that you be a sociopath in order to achieve a high-ranking position in the Republican Party? Because it sure as heck seems like it.

[The Lone Ranger]

Remember how Republicans complained that Obamacare was "rammed through Congress"? [In actuality, it took over a year.] Remember how Republicans insisted that they were not allowed to see or amend the legislation? [The HELP Committee considered nearly 300 amendments and accepted more than 160 Republican amendments to the Affordable Care Act.] Remember how Republicans insisted that insufficient input was allowed from the public? [Congress held 79 hearings on the Affordable Care Act.]


Seriously, it seems that not only do you have to be a sociopath to be successful in the current GOP, you have to be a raving hypocrite with absolutely no sense of shame.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

We all figured as much, but we now know exactly why the wingers wanted to ramrod Trumpcare through Congress before the CBO issued its report.

So people would be able to *CHOOSE* not to buy insurance.

I thought libs were for choice? I guess not when it lines the pockets of big insurance off the backs of the working class.

Choosing not to buy insurance is not the same as 'losing coverage'.

[Jerome]

The Democrats had full reign to pass whatever they wanted.

They increased costs, limited access, and lined the pockets of big insurance corp with the labor of the working class.

Insurance doesn't do anything if the deductible can not be paid.

So big insurance was able to collect more premiums and spent less providing care than before Obamacare.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

Remember how Republicans complained that Obamacare was "rammed through Congress"?

So the Speaker was lying when she said you had to pass it before you could read it?

[Jerome]

Why is it we tax healthcare?

Should not 100% of healthcare costs be tax deductible?