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  #76  
Old 08-14-2009, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Does it still even cover hospice, counseling, etc.? I can't tell from the article. If it doesn't, then fuck that shit. Until these assholes have actually had to make a difficult end of life decision, they can shut the fuck up about it and stop using the issue to scare people for cheap political points. End of life counseling isn't scary, but you know what would have been fucking scary? Dealing with this shit without hospice.
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  #77  
Old 08-14-2009, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

The provision is still in the House bill as far as I know so there is a chance that it could be included in whatever version the final legislation takes. But still, fucking cowards in the Senate bending over backwards for lunatics. Makes me ill.

I better check and see if my insurance covers that.
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  #78  
Old 08-14-2009, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Adam, my father died of lung cancer in 1986. There wasn't any concept of hospice care (at least that we had knew about or had access to) then. And you're right...it was horrible. Just getting him properly medicated for the pain was a damned nightmare.
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  #79  
Old 08-14-2009, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

* Garnet stands up and cheers

Georgetown/On Faith: Sarah Palin's "Death Panel" Lies - Michael Kessler

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Instead of engaging in honest and rigorous debate about the thicket of economic and policy issues related to health-care reform, the conversation has been stuck on so-called death panels and the fear of government bureaucrats saving money by letting grandma die. There are too many legitimate concerns about reform proposals floating around to let Palin's blatant falsehoods mire down the conversation. They should be condemned universally.
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* Less than 50 percent of the severely or terminally ill patients studied had an advance directive in their medical record.
* Only 12 percent of patients with an advance directive had received input from their physician in its development.
* Between 65 and 76 percent of physicians whose patients had an advance directive were not aware that it existed.
* Advance directives helped make end-of-life decisions in less than half of the cases where a directive existed.
* Advance directives usually were not applicable until the patient became incapacitated and "absolutely, hopelessly ill."
* Providers and patient surrogates had difficulty knowing when to stop treatment and often waited until the patient had crossed a threshold over to actively dying before the advance directive was invoked.
* Language in advance directives was usually too nonspecific and general to provide clear instruction.
* Surrogates named in the advance directive often were not present to make decisions or were too emotionally overwrought to offer guidance.

Instead of scare-mongering and lying about funding advanced care planning for Medicare recipients, perhaps those like Palin who claim to be so concerned about patient autonomy might devote themselves to helping make sure these statistics improve greatly.
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  #80  
Old 08-14-2009, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Lying and hypocrisy is her default positions:

I, Sarah Palin.
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  #81  
Old 08-17-2009, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miisa View Post
And lutefisk is a prank played on gullible tourist, FYI. :smirk:
Is not! At least not in Sweden...

At Christmas dinner with family in Sweden, lutfisk was on the menu, and several of my relatives dug in with gusto (the most enthusiastic being my uncle's wife's parents, who were old and the only people there who didn't speak English).

I tried it, and I found it mostly flavorless and of a somewhat icky texture (given that it's fish); it didn't really seem worthy of the horror stories. Cover it with sauce and bacon bits like my relatives were doing, and it wouldn't be objectionable, really. I didn't see the point of eating it tho.
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Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti View Post
This poll, 52% of Americans "disagree with Obama's handling of health care reform." I hear it over and over and over and over again. What the fuck does that even mean?

For all I know, half of them are pissed because he isn't making it enough like France.
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  #82  
Old 08-17-2009, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

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Quote:
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And lutefisk is a prank played on gullible tourist, FYI. :smirk:
Is not! At least not in Sweden...
The Swedes never really got the joke...

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  #83  
Old 08-17-2009, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

It appears that the public option is dead, if not dying:

Health care debate focuses on public insurance option - CNN.com

Quote:
The administration stepped back from its insistence on such an option over the weekend, with Obama saying it is "not the entirety of health care reform."

His spokesman, Robert Gibbs, said the president could be "satisfied" without it. And Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told CNN's "State of the Union" that a public insurance plan is "not the essential element."
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  #84  
Old 08-17-2009, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

I saw that yesterday, Garnet, and couldn't decide whether to be angry or just disappointed.

Then I wondered why I was letting it get to me. More Democratic party tutu-wearing.
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  #85  
Old 08-17-2009, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

I once read that the Democratic party could best be described as a circular firing squad. I'm beginning to get that now.
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  #86  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

This is a rather disgusting development. I happen to think that only a public option would provide a genuine improvement.
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  #87  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

As far as I can tell, what remains in health care reform is:

*Elimination of pre-existing conditions as a reason to deny health insurance.
*Provisions that everyone must buy health insurance with some kind of subsidy for those who can't afford the premiums.
*The formation of an non-profit insurance cooperatives

Anything else left?
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  #88  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

yes, we could at least get the FedEx tracking number to find out what happened to the democrats balls. :D :wink:
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  #89  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
*Elimination of pre-existing conditions as a reason to deny health insurance.
*Provisions that everyone must buy health insurance with some kind of subsidy for those who can't afford the premiums.
That's basically what we have here. Works pretty well. Not sure what other differences with your system are though.
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  #90  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
*Elimination of pre-existing conditions as a reason to deny health insurance.
*Provisions that everyone must buy health insurance with some kind of subsidy for those who can't afford the premiums.
That's basically what we have here. Works pretty well. Not sure what other differences with your system are though.
How do y'all handle costs?
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  #91  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
As far as I can tell, what remains in health care reform is:

*Elimination of pre-existing conditions as a reason to deny health insurance.
*Provisions that everyone must buy health insurance with some kind of subsidy for those who can't afford the premiums.
*The formation of an non-profit insurance cooperatives

Anything else left?
It's better than what we have now, and probably all we can hope for with the right wing still acting all McCarthyist after 50 years.
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  #92  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

I would be happy to see all insurance go not-for-profit. I think that would fix a lot of the bugs. They didn't consult me, though.
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  #93  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
As far as I can tell, what remains in health care reform is:

*Elimination of pre-existing conditions as a reason to deny health insurance.
*Provisions that everyone must buy health insurance with some kind of subsidy for those who can't afford the premiums.
*The formation of an non-profit insurance cooperatives

Anything else left?
It's better than what we have now, and probably all we can hope for with the right wing still acting all McCarthyist after 50 years.
The second bullet point worries me, though. I don't have a lot of confidence that they will do a good job of figuring out what is affordable and how subsidies would work. I keep thinking of a friend of mine who is a single father of two children who has only been able to find low-paying jobs and another friend of mine who is a college student who some folks put together some donations so he could get an infected tooth extracted.

Both of my friends, for different reasons, are living on the ragged edge of their incomes. Neither can really afford even a $100 monthly hit.
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  #94  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet
How do y'all handle costs?
The Netherlands has a levee made from old people whose treatment has become prohibitively expensive. That way, they can at least to be useful to society by preventing the rest of them from drowning. We are probably going to do the same thing here in New Orleans if Obama gets his way. True Story.
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  #95  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Man, my typing is just fucking awful today. Maybe it's a sign from the shut-the-fuck-up god.
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  #96  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser? View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet View Post
*Elimination of pre-existing conditions as a reason to deny health insurance.
*Provisions that everyone must buy health insurance with some kind of subsidy for those who can't afford the premiums.
That's basically what we have here. Works pretty well. Not sure what other differences with your system are though.
How do y'all handle costs?
Oh damn, I don't really know. I think the guvmint sets prices for medication. Also: advertising for medication is not allowed, which seems to cut demand.
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  #97  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

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Maybe it's a sign from the shut-the-fuck-up god.
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  #98  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

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I once read that the Democratic party could best be described as a circular firing squad. I'm beginning to get that now.
"I belong to no organized political party, I'm a Democrat."--Will Rogers
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  #99  
Old 08-17-2009, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

I dunno. I still think we would have done fine had we done a better job of ignoring and marginalizing the liars and the crazy people throughout this whole fiasco.

There is absolutely no reason that that 'death panel' garbage should have gotten the legs it did, and been treated as anything more significant than chupacabra sightings or people who think the government has planted tracking chips in them. But everyone seems to have treated it like it was some kind of valid argument, as though it was a legitimate side in a two-sided debate.

And all that socialism talk should have mentioned Medicare every single time. There's absolutely no excuse for the media, for any politician or pundit to talk about that without specifically talking about Medicare. None.

We will always have idiots. We will always have paranoid lunatics and sociopaths and people so terrified of change they'll believe absolutely anything that validates their fears. But we don't go debating shit like, "Should you drink blood to prevent your own blood from turning to powder?"

Some opinions and interpretations are so ill-informed and absurd that they really don't deserve consideration, much less debate.

Treating lies and craziness as legitimate concerns and opinions is only going to encourage them to continue. Buckling to these people just makes them more brazen.

We are fucked. Fucked.
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  #100  
Old 08-17-2009, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

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I dunno. I still think we would have done fine had we done a better job of ignoring and marginalizing the liars and the crazy people throughout this whole fiasco.

There is absolutely no reason that that 'death panel' garbage should have gotten the legs it did, and been treated as anything more significant than chupacabra sightings or people who think the government has planted tracking chips in them. But everyone seems to have treated it like it was some kind of valid argument, as though it was a legitimate side in a two-sided debate.

And all that socialism talk should have mentioned Medicare every single time. There's absolutely no excuse for the media, for any politician or pundit to talk about that without specifically talking about Medicare. None.

We will always have idiots. We will always have paranoid lunatics and sociopaths and people so terrified of change they'll believe absolutely anything that validates their fears. But we don't go debating shit like, "Should you drink blood to prevent your own blood from turning to powder?"

Some opinions and interpretations are so ill-informed and absurd that they really don't deserve consideration, much less debate.

Treating lies and craziness as legitimate concerns and opinions is only going to encourage them to continue. Buckling to these people just makes them more brazen.

We are fucked. Fucked.
This is the stuff that is getting to me. Why in the fuck are outright lies being treated as a legitimate concern? I just don't geddit.
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