Health Care Reform Dead

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Ahh, the old "They didn't do it right yet", excuse.


A Scotsman stands strong in the wind.

Excuse me....Have you read General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money? His How to Pay for the War, "published in 1940, that the war effort should be largely financed by higher taxation and especially by compulsory saving (essentially workers loaning money to the government), rather than deficit spending, in order to avoid inflation. Compulsory saving would act to dampen domestic demand, assist in channelling additional output towards the war efforts, would be fairer than punitive taxation and would have the advantage of helping to avoid a post war slump by boosting demand once workers were allowed to withdraw their savings." (per the Keynes wiki)

You can't say that failed because it wasn't used, either.

The General Theory suggests using increased taxation once the economy is stimulated to reduce the accumulated indebtedness of deficit spending.

Now...Have any of us in the US seen anything like this? No. Increased taxes are some kind of anathema to politicians. Even if it is to pay off the indebtedness that enriched the war profiteers. Instead, our elected leaders have chosen to continue to expand the indebtedness to even further enrich the very same war profiteers.

So...It'd be nice if they actually implemented his recommended policies. You come back and show me that they have actually failed when they've actually been tried.

Little man, you know shit. Unfortunately, you don't know economics.

[ChuckF]

BARACK OBAMA'S KEYNESIAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE IS REAL.

Also, John Birch Society? Really?

[zachhcaz22]

Instead of being a condescending troll why don't you respond to godfry's statements as to why it hasn't been properly implemented?

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by zachhcaz22

Instead of being a condescending troll why don't you respond to godfry's statements as to why it hasn't been properly implemented?

Because you will see it's implementation soon and we all will find out in our endeavors if it works for the majority.





...but when it fails again we will just hear a chorus of "They didn't do it right".

[zachhcaz22]

But we're not talking about now, are we? No, we were talking about how it has failed in the past which you didn't respond to godfry about (he put it better than I could have, so that's why I'm pointing you to his post). Stop running away Jerome, or I'll be forced to post your MySpace here (and I swear upon my life that I did not make this one up, it's just too funny).

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by zachhcaz22

But we're not talking about now, are we? No, we were talking about how it has failed in the past which you didn't respond to godfry about (he put it better than I could have, so that's why I'm pointing you to his post). Stop running away Jerome, or I'll be forced to post your MySpace here (and I swear upon my life that I did not make this one up, it's just too funny).

I have already told you that the excuse will always be, no matter what evidence is presented, that "They didn't do it right".




.that is not me, feel free to post it.

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Ahh, the old "They didn't do it right yet", excuse.

"There is no real free market anywhere"

[zachhcaz22]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

I have already told you that the excuse will always be, no matter what evidence is presented, that "They didn't do it right"..

Then show how they have done it right despite his claims. Disprove him. Unlike you, I concede defeat when I am beaten.

EDIT: and one more dodge and the link will be posted, I laughed when I saw it.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

You have failed in your first try.

On the contrary. My first try conclusively destroyed your troll claim.

Is nothing written before 1959 valid?

ROFL

If the only support you can find is a 50 year old John Bircher tract, then maybe that should tell you something about the validity of your claim.

You are 1984 son, you are 1984 embodied.

And you're a moron - embodied.

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Because you will see it's implementation soon and we all will find out in our endeavors if it works for the majority.

Ah. Borrowing a page from the fundamentalists?

"The rapture is coming soon and then you'll see who was right?"

ROLFMAO

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by zachhcaz22

Then show how they have done it right despite his claims. Disprove him. Unlike you, I concede defeat when I am beaten.

If he had offered an argument, yes.

All he did was state that "They didn't do it right".

There is nothing I could present that could possibly defeat that argument, thus I do concede: Keynesian has not been proven a fail because "They didn't do it right".

EDIT: and one more dodge and the link will be posted, I laughed when I saw it.

http://www.myspace.com/turkeydesert

[zachhcaz22]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

If he had offered an argument, yes.

All he did was state that "They didn't do it right".

There is nothing I could present that could possibly defeat that argument, thus I do concede: Keynesian has not been proven a fail because "They didn't do it right".

meet

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

Actually, insomuch as they were actually applied, they were successful. The problem is that, in the United States, after the recovery from World War II, the other side of his equation was entirely ignored...thanks to the pseudo-libertarian Republicans and the military-industrial complex, who instead of paying down the accumulated debt with higher revenue capture in taxes, have repeatedly bloated the already distended national budget to ever-greater indebtedness.

Don't tell me his theories are proven failures when there has been no attempt to even put them into practice.

You must have fucking slept through every modern history or current events class you were ever in, JERONG. I am a bit awe-struck at the extent of your stupidity and ignorance. I'm impressed that you can operate a keyboard and construct actual English sentences....

and

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

Excuse me....Have you read General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money? His How to Pay for the War, "published in 1940, that the war effort should be largely financed by higher taxation and especially by compulsory saving (essentially workers loaning money to the government), rather than deficit spending, in order to avoid inflation. Compulsory saving would act to dampen domestic demand, assist in channelling additional output towards the war efforts, would be fairer than punitive taxation and would have the advantage of helping to avoid a post war slump by boosting demand once workers were allowed to withdraw their savings." (per the Keynes wiki)

You can't say that failed because it wasn't used, either.

The General Theory suggests using increased taxation once the economy is stimulated to reduce the accumulated indebtedness of deficit spending.

Now...Have any of us in the US seen anything like this? No. Increased taxes are some kind of anathema to politicians. Even if it is to pay off the indebtedness that enriched the war profiteers. Instead, our elected leaders have chosen to continue to expand the indebtedness to even further enrich the very same war profiteers.

So...It'd be nice if they actually implemented his recommended policies. You come back and show me that they have actually failed when they've actually been tried.

Little man, you know shit. Unfortunately, you don't know economics.

Why are you running away Jerome? Is it because you don't know what you're talking about?

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

http://www.myspace.com/turkeydesert

Yeah, I thought that one was funny. I guess we now know who you really are.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Sauron

On the contrary. My first try conclusively destroyed your troll claim.

You don't even remember who make what claim. Was your post not your claim?

[godfry n. glad]

So, if I can dredge up a printed page that happens to agree with any whackjob assertion I make, that would give credibility to my assertion?

Did you know that the center of the earth is hollow? All you have to do is read William Reed's Phantom at the Poles....Or Marshal Gardiner's Journey to the Earth's Interior. Proof positive!

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by zachhcaz22

Why are you running away Jerome? Is it because you don't know what you're talking about?

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

All he did was state that "They didn't do it right".

There is nothing I could present that could possibly defeat that argument, thus I do concede: Keynesian has not been proven a fail because "They didn't do it right".

I conceded the argument, what more do you want?

[zachhcaz22]

Well it's fairly obvious you were being sarcastic I would prefer you engaged in honest debate.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by zachhcaz22

Well it's fairly obvious you were being sarcastic I would prefer you engaged in honest debate.

I was not being sarcastic.

I concede that Keynesian has not been proven a fail.

[zachhcaz22]

Then why the quotation marks, implying disbelief?

EDIT: that was a serious question, not meant as inflammatory.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Nullifidian

So basically you have no response as to how a meltdown caused by IMF-imposed austerity regimes and over two decades of neoliberal economics amounts to a failure of Keynesian economics. Instead, you direct me to a book that was hawked by Birchers and published about three decades before the economic meltdown of Argentina ever occurred.

See, you are half way there.


You do understand the manipulation, yet you, for some reason, think that if you just support the right side of the two party system that a correction will be made.

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

See, you are half way there.


You do understand the manipulation, yet you, for some reason, think that if you just support the right side of the two party system that a correction will be made.

Are you now seriously accusing Nullifidian, out of all people here, of thinking supporting one side of the two party system will solve the problems the US faces?

Not only do you never have the faintest idea what you are talking about, you don't have the faintest idea who you are talking to either.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Watser?

"There is no real free market anywhere"

JERONG said that? If so, then he's right.

The thing is, there has NEVER been any real free market and I doubt if there EVER will be. The reason is that big producers will almost always combine to defraud the buyer and thereby violate the soveriegnty of the customer. Even Adam Smith warned about this propensity amongst capitalists and recommended state interference to prevent it. I even think that Karl Polyani has shown that even amongst barter economies, producers pressure rulers to impose market controls...even proto-capitalists like proto-fascistic government that enforces market stability; it increases predictability and reduces loss.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

The thing is, there has NEVER been any real free market and I doubt if there EVER will be. The reason is that big producers will almost always combine to defraud the buyer and thereby violate the soveriegnty of the customer. Even Adam Smith warned about this propensity amongst capitalists and recommended state interference to prevent it. I even think that Karl Polyani has shown that even amongst barter economies, producers pressure rulers to impose market controls...even proto-capitalists like proto-fascistic government that enforces market stability; it increases predictability and reduces loss.

You are correct in many ways.

We just disagree on the proper balance.

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

See, you are half way there.


You do understand the manipulation, yet you, for some reason, think that if you just support the right side of the two party system that a correction will be made.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I think. You've really got me there.

Anyway, it's fairly obvious at that point that you have no actual demonstration of how Argentina represents a failure of Keynesian economics, nor do you know anything about Argentina's fiscal and economic policy prior to its economic collapse. Don't say I didn't try to tell you.

It's also clear that you have no clue how to deal with the arguments of people who disagree with you except to collapse them down into a simplified and misleading conservative vs. liberal binary.

[Jerome]

Right, I don't know what I am talking about and your US dollar is holding it's value.

[godfry n. glad]

The dollar is not 'holding its value' exactly because Keynes' advice was ignored.