#2051  
Old 11-23-2018, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: News Miscellany

This is all over the Seattle Times.

American is killed by bow and arrow on remote island in India | The Seattle Times

John Chau, a resident of Washington State, had two loves in his like, exploration and Jesus. He died attempting to kayak to North Sentinal island, the home of an isolated tribe of people, presumably to preach Jesus to them.

Actually, he was murdered. Probably killed by either bow and arrow or spear. As it turns out, this group of people are known to threaten and attack people who attempt to make contact. For both the safety of this tribe and the people who might attempt to visit, the Indian government bans contact except in specific controlled situations. Even those encounters haven't always gone well.

We know that Chau was attacked because he made more than one attempt at the island, and was driven back by arrow attacks, one which apparently pierced his Bible. Not taking the hint, his last attempt got him killed on shore.

This was the first time I had learned of this island. It's fascinating that there still a group of people that are still so isolated from the rest of the world.

I don't like this story one bit. Chau was apparently so moved to preach Jesus to these people that he was willing to risk his life and theirs. He even persisted after actual attempts on his life. Now that he's been murdered, the Indian government, which has taken an entirely "hands off" approach to these people before may now feel compelled to do something about this murder. They have already indicated they want to get the body back, and possibly communicate with these people about the event. His actions have now increased the risk to these people.


This reminds me of one of Mrs. Reason's cousins. This cousin is part of the religious side of the family, and she went on a mission to an Islamic country. This country in particular has laws against converting people from Islam. So, her official mission was to assist a local Christian church with administrative duties, but that was the cover story for her true mission. She was supposed to help lead Bible studies for locals who were interested. These had to be clandestine because she was breaking the law.

Her side of the family thought this was a risk worth taking if it saves just one soul, but our side of the family thinks this is hypocritical lying for Jesus. Plus, it wasn't even that risky for her. She was a US citizen in a country which wanted to maintain good relations to the US. If she was caught, it's most likely that the worst thing to happen was that she'd be kicked out of the country. The real risks were to the locals, these were the people that would likely be jailed or worse.

This is how I feel about these people on North Sentinel island. Chau didn't care about the feelings or risks to this tribe, or to the legal ramifications to the fishermen who he paid to take him there - who all got arrested after his murder. Nope, he felt the need to preach Jesus to them, and that's all that mattered.
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  #2052  
Old 11-23-2018, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: News Miscellany

It's worse than that, actually. There's a genuine risk to the wellbeing of the natives in that Americans probably carry germs to which we're immune, but the natives of the island aren't, cf. the way Europeans' germs wiped out a large portion of the American Indian population. For all we know, this has already happened and the symptoms just haven't shown. And Chau probably wouldn't have cared because Jebus trumps the actual wellbeing of the inhabitants. Fuck that guy.
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  #2053  
Old 11-23-2018, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: News Miscellany

In these evangelical sects the End Times come after the gospel is preached to all nations. There will be more of these guys sooner or later.
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  #2054  
Old 11-23-2018, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: News Miscellany

Meanwhile in the nightly tribal drum beats, "With this recent incursion into our land and property, tribe council will look at strengthening 'stand your ground' laws and inform those who do protect their family and property from these beasts from outside shall be granted immunity in their actions."
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Old 11-23-2018, 11:07 PM
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"The foreign nations aren't sending us their best people. They're send missionaries, and disease-laden fanatics."
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  #2056  
Old 11-24-2018, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
It's worse than that, actually. There's a genuine risk to the wellbeing of the natives in that Americans probably carry germs to which we're immune, but the natives of the island aren't, cf. the way Europeans' germs wiped out a large portion of the American Indian population. For all we know, this has already happened and the symptoms just haven't shown. And Chau probably wouldn't have cared because Jebus trumps the actual wellbeing of the inhabitants. Fuck that guy.
Yeah, I didn't go into that, but the Indian government officials in charge of attempting to make contact monitored for any symptoms of contagious diseases in the contact team members. I learned that these attempts stopped in 1996, and a ban has been enforced since 2006.

Also and of course, I read that there's a Christian organization that wants to bring these people "to justice." They also conflate this incident with India's suppression of Christian missionaries.
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Old 11-24-2018, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: News Miscellany

It's probably bad for the countries with young populations when their people leave to seek a better life in rich aging countries. Sure those emigrants might send money back home to help their poor relations, but the ones most likely to leave are the ones with the greatest drive and ambition - and so it leaves the poor country depleted of those who may have been most likely to help improve it.
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  #2058  
Old 11-24-2018, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specious_reasons View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man View Post
It's worse than that, actually. There's a genuine risk to the wellbeing of the natives in that Americans probably carry germs to which we're immune, but the natives of the island aren't, cf. the way Europeans' germs wiped out a large portion of the American Indian population. For all we know, this has already happened and the symptoms just haven't shown. And Chau probably wouldn't have cared because Jebus trumps the actual wellbeing of the inhabitants. Fuck that guy.
Yeah, I didn't go into that, but the Indian government officials in charge of attempting to make contact monitored for any symptoms of contagious diseases in the contact team members. I learned that these attempts stopped in 1996, and a ban has been enforced since 2006.

Also and of course, I read that there's a Christian organization that wants to bring these people "to justice." They also conflate this incident with India's suppression of Christian missionaries.

It's my understanding that the missionary in question didn't even understand the language. As such, it seems that he was being more than a bit ... presumptuous ... if he thought that he would be able to effectively "minister" to the natives. Given that he ignored two very clear messages from the natives of North Sentinel that they didn't want him to come and minister to them, it's a bit hard to feel sorry for the guy.

What's particularly worrisome is what may happen to the people of North Sentinel as a result of this incident. Aside from the already-mentioned danger of introduced diseases, I'm concerned that the U.S. government may insist that the natives be "punished" for the "unwarranted murder" of an unwelcome intruder who had been repeatedly warned to stay away. That and/or the Indian government may decide that these people need to be "civilized" in order to prevent any more such "murders" from taking place -- even though the North Sentinel people have repeatedly made it perfectly clear that they don't want to be "civilized."


It's also worth pointing out that the North Sentinel Island natives have very good reasons to be distrustful of and aggressive toward outsiders, and to regard them as dangerous invaders.
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  #2059  
Old 11-24-2018, 02:50 AM
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It's also worth pointing out that the North Sentinel Island natives have very good reasons to be distrustful of and aggressive toward outsiders, and to regard them as dangerous invaders.
Further down the Twitter thread of that link are a bunch of clarifications and corrections worth mentioning, like, (maybe?) wrong island.



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  #2060  
Old 11-24-2018, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post

It's also worth pointing out that the North Sentinel Island natives have very good reasons to be distrustful of and aggressive toward outsiders, and to regard them as dangerous invaders.
:tealdeer: The conclusion of the thread:

Quote:
[...]their aggressiveness is not the mark of savagery. It just that their conception of outsiders is mostly framed by some foot-faced English pervert who murdered some old people and did weird things to their kids. So let’s do them a favor and leave them alone.
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  #2061  
Old 11-24-2018, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
What's particularly worrisome is what may happen to the people of North Sentinel as a result of this incident. Aside from the already-mentioned danger of introduced diseases, I'm concerned that the U.S. government may insist that the natives be "punished" for the "unwarranted murder" of an unwelcome intruder who had been repeatedly warned to stay away.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if our government insists on "punishment" for the people of North Sentinel. It's not as if we have any lucrative arms deals with them.

After all, Trump has made it clear that he's perfectly okay with the murder of a U.S. resident by representatives of a foreign nation -- so long as the nation in question is a major oil producer and/or is buying lots of expensive military equipment from us, that is.
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  #2062  
Old 11-26-2018, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: News Miscellany

Thread continued some more. Maybe it was North Sentinel?

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  #2063  
Old 11-29-2018, 09:07 PM
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Barry's a bit worked up.

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Old 12-01-2018, 08:14 AM
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Alaska getting shook up, yo.

Recent Earthquakes in Alaska | Alaska Earthquake Center
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  #2065  
Old 12-01-2018, 08:56 PM
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So, I just read a profile of the missionary who got himself killed by the North Sentinel Islanders.

Apparently, this was his whole life's work, all the missionary training and travel was practice for this. He was always semi-secretly planning to go there - he purposely kept his goal on a need-to-know basis.

One of those people in the know:
Quote:
“He was well aware of the dangers and the fact that it was not exactly legal,” Ramsey said.
...it was exactly not legal, you asshole.

Quote:
Members of the Ramsey family gathered in their living room, read through Chau’s last letter and cried.

But they said they did not feel guilty.

“I don’t,” Ramsey said. “He had a higher calling that he was following. I don’t have any regrets.”
You helped someone increase the dangers to an already endangered people, you should feel guilty.
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Old 12-02-2018, 05:45 PM
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That Milo fellow still seems to be having a rough time of it.

The Kernel sued by former contributors for non-payment | Media | The Guardian

Doesn't seem to be able to pay his bills.
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Old 12-03-2018, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: News Miscellany

Riots in Paris about gas price increases so that France can abide by the climate agreement. This whole transition to renewables thing isn't going to be too easy, is it?


https://www.thedailybeast.com/paris-...to-us?ref=home
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:02 PM
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Stoned the other day I was thinking about how we're the first technological society on earth and that we might just be the first run. What if Fossil fuels are a dead start for civilizations, like they cause advancement too fast and many don't survive the crash. Perhaps on planets that develop fossil fuel there's an early flash in the pan civilization that uses it all up, and in a few million years or so another animal is going to hit civilization level and sit on steam for a lot longer but eventually hit on renewable because the abundant non renewable sources have been mostly drained (afterall, we won't turn into oil, there's nothing really today that will become large amounts of oil tomorrow).
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:08 PM
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This isn't the "weird visions of the future" thread but I'll allow it.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:21 PM
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I'm having trouble getting past the 'what and how much will they be burning to produce the steam?' That is if complex mammals survive the upcoming climate problems.

Timeline checks out, though. A few million years for the next round of chimps to grow big brains? Seems legit.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:41 AM
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There's still trees and there will be some coal. Wood gas is makable and so is oil in general. The big issues with fossil fuel is that it's easy to refine for clean (combustion version) burning and abundant so it didn't take long to go from the era of engines to the era of burning gas inside them because we have so much and it's so easy! Without the huge reserves a future civilization will have to conserve these resources right off the bat and steam is better for large energy generation (hence why we still use it). With a lot of what they burn coming from trees and the carbon cycle, while they will pollute it won't be in the same dump a bunch of sequestered carbon into the atmosphere kinda way that we have.
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Old 12-04-2018, 01:06 AM
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I for one look forward to our new cold blooded reptilian overlords.
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Old 12-05-2018, 08:16 PM
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So some asshat (Ross Douthat, also infamous for his "incel" article) wrote a opinion piece in the NYT titled “Why We Miss the WASPs." I haven't read it and don't intend to, but it does not appear to be a parody.

I won't link to it, but to a comment on it.

A choice quote:
Quote:
Put simply, Americans miss Bush because we miss the WASPs — because we feel, at some level, that their more meritocratic and diverse and secular successors rule us neither as wisely nor as well.
Could have put this into the "Why the mainstream media sucks" thread, too.
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Old 12-06-2018, 04:36 AM
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That Milo fellow still seems to be having a rough time of it.

The Kernel sued by former contributors for non-payment | Media | The Guardian

Doesn't seem to be able to pay his bills.
Really rough time of it.

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Old 12-10-2018, 11:13 PM
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Roles, holes ... six of one, half-dozen of the other.
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