Go Back   Freethought Forum > The Public Baths > News, Politics & Law

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 06-01-2011, 03:26 AM
Ymir's blood's Avatar
Ymir's blood Ymir's blood is offline
Coffin Creep
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The nightmare realm
Posts: XXMXCDLXXXII
Images: 67
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

What Makes a Body Obscene? » Sociological Images
Quote:
Both Barnes & Noble and Borders “bagged” the magazine, like they do pornographic ones, such that one can see the title of the magazine but the rest of the cover is hidden. Barnes and Noble said that the magazine came that way, representatives for Dossier say that the bookstore “chains” required them to do it
__________________
Much of MADNESS, and more of SIN, and HORROR the soul of the plot.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Ari (06-01-2011), Deadlokd (06-02-2011), Ensign Steve (06-01-2011), erimir (06-01-2011), LadyShea (06-01-2011), lisarea (06-01-2011), Nullifidian (06-01-2011), Stormlight (06-01-2011), The Man (06-03-2011), Watser? (06-01-2011)
  #102  
Old 06-01-2011, 10:36 AM
S.Vashti's Avatar
S.Vashti S.Vashti is offline
nominalistic existential pragmaticist
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cheeeeseland
Gender: Female
Posts: MMMDCCLXX
Images: 105
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

I started thinking about these gender issues before I hit puberty, as both my parents didn't make choices for us based on gender, but what we preferred, but all my friends, relatives and outside authority figures did. Which was puzzling. So I was forced to notice the discrepancy, the different messaging, and decided in my own peculiar way, to simply take the best of each gender and make it my own. Because it was too obvious that the standard roles had very little, if any, basis in physiology. And because I still think being rational is a very good virtue, I haven't changed my outlook on that decision, after all these years. If you value logic, be logical, if you value compassion, be compassionate, if you like cooking, cook, if you like being well groomed, be careful in your grooming, etc. The issue of whether you are a man or a woman just doesn't intersect with these values.
__________________
:marsh:
:coffeeff:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Deadlokd (06-02-2011), Kael (06-01-2011), LadyShea (04-12-2012), livius drusus (06-01-2011), The Man (06-03-2011), Vivisectus (06-01-2011)
  #103  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:04 AM
Vivisectus's Avatar
Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
Astroid the Foine Loine between a Poirate and a Farrrmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMCCCLI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
At least we are coming to the end of the era where every last damn wife in every damn TV show is sassy and smart, while ever husband is slightly dumb, immature and impulsive. God that was getting old.
That is a really annoying trope.

Do you see what the root of that convention is?
I can understand it as a sort of counterswing-reaction. What do you reckon the root of it is?
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 06-01-2011, 01:04 PM
Demimonde's Avatar
Demimonde Demimonde is offline
an angry unicorn or a non-murdering leprechaun
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edge of Society
Gender: Female
Posts: VMMCDLXI
Blog Entries: 5
Images: 28
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

It is actually older than the hills. The idea is that the wife must be mother to the whole family, including her idiot husband. Worse, it perpetuates the notion that women must settle for this as the natural order of things.
__________________
:boobkicker:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Deadlokd (06-02-2011), LadyShea (06-01-2011), The Man (06-03-2011)
  #105  
Old 06-01-2011, 01:31 PM
Watser?'s Avatar
Watser? Watser? is offline
Fishy mokey
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Furrin parts
Posts: LMMMDLXXXVI
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

You see it in pretty much all commercials if there is a woman and a man in it.
__________________
:typingmonkey:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Deadlokd (06-02-2011), The Man (06-03-2011)
  #106  
Old 06-01-2011, 01:41 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMDLI
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
At least we are coming to the end of the era where every last damn wife in every damn TV show is sassy and smart, while ever husband is slightly dumb, immature and impulsive. God that was getting old.
That is a really annoying trope.

Do you see what the root of that convention is?
I can understand it as a sort of counterswing-reaction. What do you reckon the root of it is?
That is likely true, that it's some kind of inversion of the old style Father Knows Best setup, specifically and generically; but I didn't even mean anything that fancy. In a comedy, the bumbling immature character is the central one. The wife role is a generic supporting character in an almost interchangeable straight role that serves as a foil for the main character. It's a cheap, stupid style of humor, but if anything, it actually favors men.

Also, 'sassy' means impudent. Not just as a connotation or some etymological root or something. It actually means impudent, and it implies a lower social status person backtalking, often in a mildly humorous and nonthreatening way. That's why it's only used to describe children and women (particularly black women). You'd never hear someone seriously call a heterosexual man 'sassy.'

Overall, though, the 'BAW what about the menz' thing is kind of weak. Is that really some kind of notable example of an intolerable sexist convention in the media? The first thing that comes to mind? Not absurd tokenism of women or the fact that movies regularly fail the Bechdel Test or the paucity of female writers or non-trivial roles for women in mainstream media? This is the complaint? That poor poor menz have to star in bumblefuck leading roles in some subset of lowbrow domestic sitcoms that they probably wrote, while the ladies get those sweet straight roles, where they get to be 'sassy' in response to the lead character? It's a weird little thing to be concerned about, and it really points up just how pervasive actual sexism is, that people notice that one dumb trope over all those other far more pervasive and damaging ones.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Anastasia Beaverhausen (06-01-2011), Crumb (06-01-2011), Deadlokd (06-02-2011), Demimonde (06-01-2011), Kael (06-01-2011), livius drusus (06-01-2011), Nullifidian (06-02-2011), The Man (06-03-2011), Ymir's blood (06-02-2011)
  #107  
Old 06-01-2011, 02:16 PM
Demimonde's Avatar
Demimonde Demimonde is offline
an angry unicorn or a non-murdering leprechaun
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edge of Society
Gender: Female
Posts: VMMCDLXI
Blog Entries: 5
Images: 28
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Yeah, men are always the stars in those shows. It is an easy start for stand ups who want a start in acting. Fit male comic A into tab B.

Reminds me of an interview I saw of Wanda Sykes. She was talking about a meeting she had with the execs at Fox who had the "perfect" vehicle for her. She went in excited and left pissed to holy hell. The show was to be about a maid that wins the lottery but loves her employer's family sooooo much that she continues to work for them. "Sassy" does not describe her response to them.
__________________
:boobkicker:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Anastasia Beaverhausen (06-02-2011), chunksmediocrites (06-01-2011), Deadlokd (06-02-2011), erimir (06-01-2011), irukandji (06-04-2011), lisarea (06-01-2011), livius drusus (06-01-2011), Nullifidian (06-02-2011), The Man (06-03-2011), Ymir's blood (06-02-2011)
  #108  
Old 06-01-2011, 02:29 PM
Vivisectus's Avatar
Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
Astroid the Foine Loine between a Poirate and a Farrrmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMCCCLI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
That is likely true, that it's some kind of inversion of the old style Father Knows Best setup, specifically and generically; but I didn't even mean anything that fancy. In a comedy, the bumbling immature character is the central one. The wife role is a generic supporting character in an almost interchangeable straight role that serves as a foil for the main character. It's a cheap, stupid style of humor, but if anything, it actually favors men.

Also, 'sassy' means impudent. Not just as a connotation or some etymological root or something. It actually means impudent, and it implies a lower social status person backtalking, often in a mildly humorous and nonthreatening way. That's why it's only used to describe children and women (particularly black women). You'd never hear someone seriously call a heterosexual man 'sassy.'

Overall, though, the 'BAW what about the menz' thing is kind of weak. Is that really some kind of notable example of an intolerable sexist convention in the media? The first thing that comes to mind? Not absurd tokenism of women or the fact that movies regularly fail the Bechdel Test or the paucity of female writers or non-trivial roles for women in mainstream media? This is the complaint? That poor poor menz have to star in bumblefuck leading roles in some subset of lowbrow domestic sitcoms that they probably wrote, while the ladies get those sweet straight roles, where they get to be 'sassy' in response to the lead character? It's a weird little thing to be concerned about, and it really points up just how pervasive actual sexism is, that people notice that one dumb trope over all those other far more pervasive and damaging ones.

Sassy may mean something I did not realize it did, as english is not my first language, but what I assumed it to mean was assertive, sensible, outspoken and quick-witted. To simply ignore it and call it part of the clown / straight man routine is rather shortsighted - and I completely fail to see how it favors men. I could just as easily say that the bit-of-skirt-there-to-be-kidnapped role actually favors women.

To then proceed to say "Oh yeh but the wimmenz have it worse!" is neither here nor there. Sure, that sucks too. So what?

And if this fight is going to degenerate into the kind of warmed-up vomit that features the plaintive whinge of "oh look at the paucity of strong female roles" then you are completely missing the point. Roles should be strong or weak as the story dictates, and this should have nothing to do with their gender - sure. But thanks to asshattery like this we get the assurance in every last goddamn interview that every movie has "A strong female role" in it, as if that has some sort of intrinsic value.

So save me your twaddle, unless twaddle means something I am not aware of, in which case I might like some.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 06-01-2011, 02:40 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMDLI
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Well, shows with female leads are for ladies. Shows with male leads are for everyone, because men are the default humangs.

Also that, in turn, reminds me of this article by Roseanne Barr in The New Yorker about some of the sexist undermining she experienced with her show.

And the weirdest thing was that I had just seen part of that show on TV recently and was thinking it was awful just how progressive something that debuted over 20 years ago seems by current standards.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Crumb (06-01-2011), Deadlokd (06-02-2011), LadyShea (06-01-2011), livius drusus (06-01-2011), mickthinks (06-02-2011), Nullifidian (06-02-2011), The Man (06-03-2011), wildernesse (06-01-2011)
  #110  
Old 06-01-2011, 02:40 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMDLI
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

HELLO YES HELLO.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 06-01-2011, 02:41 PM
Demimonde's Avatar
Demimonde Demimonde is offline
an angry unicorn or a non-murdering leprechaun
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edge of Society
Gender: Female
Posts: VMMCDLXI
Blog Entries: 5
Images: 28
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Yeah, again this isn't anything new. Unless, Dickens or commedia dell'arte is new.

If you think that strong female roles have no intrinsic value, do you believe that sexist stereotypes have intrinsically damaging value? What about racist stereotypes? I believe they do.
__________________
:boobkicker:
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 06-01-2011, 02:45 PM
Demimonde's Avatar
Demimonde Demimonde is offline
an angry unicorn or a non-murdering leprechaun
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edge of Society
Gender: Female
Posts: VMMCDLXI
Blog Entries: 5
Images: 28
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Also, btw as a writer the notion that roles should be as weak or strong as the story dictates bugs me. Stories don't just happen, they don't write themselves. They are not written in a vacuum either, they are crafted for an audience.
__________________
:boobkicker:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
irukandji (06-04-2011), The Man (06-03-2011), Ymir's blood (06-02-2011)
  #113  
Old 06-01-2011, 02:54 PM
Vivisectus's Avatar
Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
Astroid the Foine Loine between a Poirate and a Farrrmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMCCCLI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demimonde View Post
Yeah, again this isn't anything new. Unless, Dickens or commedia dell'arte is new.

If you think that strong female roles have no intrinsic value, do you believe that sexist stereotypes have intrinsically damaging value? What about racist stereotypes? I believe they do.
What I mean is that what is currently being termed as strong female roles (most of the time it means "women are violent whilst dressed in the modern equivalent of the chainmail bikini") is somehow passed off as something that is automatically a good thing. It should not matter - roles should be "strong" or "not strong" according to what the narrative demands.

It turns a proper concern - IE the standard should be humanist and not gender-based - into ridiculous drivel where every actor/model retard feels they have to mention "strong roles for women" at least 3 times during every interview.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 06-01-2011, 03:05 PM
Vivisectus's Avatar
Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
Astroid the Foine Loine between a Poirate and a Farrrmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMCCCLI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
Well, shows with female leads are for ladies. Shows with male leads are for everyone, because men are the default humangs.

Also that, in turn, reminds me of this article by Roseanne Barr in The New Yorker about some of the sexist undermining she experienced with her show.

And the weirdest thing was that I had just seen part of that show on TV recently and was thinking it was awful just how progressive something that debuted over 20 years ago seems by current standards.
I wonder how many girls follow Xena.

LOL it's no use, I can't keep a straight face when I bring that up.

The division is not nearly as strong as it was anymore. It used to be like that, but shows like Cougartown and Desperate Housewives are watched by a fair chunk of men that I know, and not just because their wives watch it. I do not have the actual demographics, but I would not be surprised if they go at about 60% women 40% men. There are also a fair amount of shows that are not exclusively led by either gender.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 06-01-2011, 03:09 PM
Vivisectus's Avatar
Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
Astroid the Foine Loine between a Poirate and a Farrrmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMCCCLI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demimonde View Post
Also, btw as a writer the notion that roles should be as weak or strong as the story dictates bugs me. Stories don't just happen, they don't write themselves. They are not written in a vacuum either, they are crafted for an audience.
yeah, and if you write them with roles in them that are just vehicles for women to be strong in, then it is likely to be a pretty crap story. Unless that is what the story is about, or if it is germane to the story as a whole.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 06-01-2011, 03:36 PM
Demimonde's Avatar
Demimonde Demimonde is offline
an angry unicorn or a non-murdering leprechaun
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edge of Society
Gender: Female
Posts: VMMCDLXI
Blog Entries: 5
Images: 28
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Honestly, I never considered violent in a bikini to be particularly strong. Also, you seem to be critiquing the marketing rather than the story. As for the Xena effect, do you think those stories are written to convey strength or sex?

Any character written to convey a certain type will be flat. That doesn't mean that the story will be crap. But type roles seemed to be what you were finding bothersome to begin with, an infantilized man with a mothering wife.

Macho men in action roles or sexualized women in the same role are a type. But these types speak to certain aspects of culture. As do sexist and racist stereotypes. The key is to create characters that reflect culture while not perpetuating damaging ideas.

Rosanne is a good example of a show that played with this. In terms of race think Huck Finn. A good story is one that contains characters with humanity, which is both cultural and individual.

This last bit is key. Often women are portrayed in roles that lack agency. This is a reflection of our culture, but not the best part of it. Writing roles where women do is not going to make something a "crap" story. Being aware of the messages conveyed in writing is important. Not only for the author, but for the audience.
__________________
:boobkicker:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Deadlokd (06-02-2011), LadyShea (06-01-2011), The Man (06-03-2011)
  #117  
Old 06-01-2011, 03:39 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMDLI
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
Sassy may mean something I did not realize it did, as english is not my first language, but what I assumed it to mean was assertive, sensible, outspoken and quick-witted.
You used it in a totally appropriate context, though. I'm sure most people who use the word aren't entirely conscious of its explicit meaning as they're doing it, but somehow, nobody ever applies it to a heterosexual man. A man saying the same things in the same context might be described as 'witty' or 'acerbic' or something, but not 'sassy.'

Quote:
To simply ignore it and call it part of the clown / straight man routine is rather shortsighted - and I completely fail to see how it favors men. I could just as easily say that the bit-of-skirt-there-to-be-kidnapped role actually favors women.
Because the men are the central characters. They are the protagonists and the stars of those shows. Those actors make more money, the titles of those shows are more likely to make direct reference to them, seeing as how the shows are about them. The ones I can think of off the top of my head are called Everybody Loves Raymond, According to Jim, and The King of Queens. (I only know of the former two because some cable network has ads for a sitcom block they're advertising as "Fat guys with hot wives" or something like that.) The Simpsons and Home Improvement are the only remotely recent ones I can think of that is not explicitly named for the main, male lead.

In fact, how many more of them are there? That's five.

Quote:
To then proceed to say "Oh yeh but the wimmenz have it worse!" is neither here nor there. Sure, that sucks too. So what?
So if the first thing you think of when you think of damaging gender binaries is some lowbrow sitcom trope in which men are portrayed in domestic comedies as buffoons, and wives play 'sassy' supporting characters as their foils; rather than to the far more widespread, damaging, and insidious trends that affect women, it illustrates a whole lot of unexamined privilege.

Why would you cite some trope that occurs in a limited and fairly isolated genre of domestic comedy (and in the US, in commercials for cleaning products) over citing the fact that a significant percentage of mainstream movies being made today don't even have two (named) female characters who speak to each other about something other than a man? It's almost as though we're so acclimated to that that people don't even notice such a glaring trend. How many movies do you think might fail a reverse Bechdel test? That is, that wouldn't have two (named) male characters talking to each other about something other than a woman?

Have you noticed this? Memo to all women: No half for you in Hollywood - latimes.com

Or this? Remember when I said they teach you not to write screenplays with women as leads? — The Hathor Legacy

This? Two Female Leads « xkcd

Quote:
And if this fight is going to degenerate into the kind of warmed-up vomit that features the plaintive whinge of "oh look at the paucity of strong female roles" then you are completely missing the point. Roles should be strong or weak as the story dictates, and this should have nothing to do with their gender - sure. But thanks to asshattery like this we get the assurance in every last goddamn interview that every movie has "A strong female role" in it, as if that has some sort of intrinsic value.

So save me your twaddle, unless twaddle means something I am not aware of, in which case I might like some.
lol yes, hon. I'm the one whining and spewing out twaddle. How ridiculous of me not to realize that men are being horribly oppressed by some cheap, lowbrow comedy trope in which male writers write dumb comedy shows centered around male lead characters (sometimes based on those male lead characters' standup comedy routines) who do stupid things. Because it's really the interchangeable, humorless female foils who have all the power.

Really, it's whiny and hypersensitive of me to point out that women are egregiously underrepresented and tokenized in mainstream media, whereas it's perfectly reasonable for people to get all bent out of shape about some isolated and fairly easily avoided trope in which men are portrayed as bumbling and incompetent for comic effect.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Crumb (06-01-2011), Deadlokd (06-02-2011), Kael (06-01-2011), livius drusus (06-01-2011), Nullifidian (06-02-2011), The Lone Ranger (06-02-2011), The Man (06-03-2011)
  #118  
Old 06-01-2011, 03:58 PM
Vivisectus's Avatar
Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
Astroid the Foine Loine between a Poirate and a Farrrmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMCCCLI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Man I suck at fighting. Yeah I know. I just hoped for a good shouting match, which you have now spoiled by insisting on being reasonable and bringing up cogent arguments.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
maddog (06-01-2011), The Man (06-03-2011)
  #119  
Old 06-01-2011, 04:09 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMDLI
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

For the record, I don't think you're being personally sexist. I just think that the fact that so many people can name and relate to the dumb husband convention but don't even notice that such a significant percentage of movies don't even pass the super low bar of having two women talking to each other about regular stuff speaks to a really pervasive trend in society in general.

I used to not notice that much, either. Once I started to, though, I was like DAMN.
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
The Man (06-03-2011)
  #120  
Old 06-01-2011, 04:41 PM
Demimonde's Avatar
Demimonde Demimonde is offline
an angry unicorn or a non-murdering leprechaun
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edge of Society
Gender: Female
Posts: VMMCDLXI
Blog Entries: 5
Images: 28
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

I still want to fight about how these "smart" roles supposedly favor women. Issues of primacy and supporting roles aside, these shows perpetuate a terrible idea.

The manchild is often excused of responsibility, while it is the woman's duty to act as the nurturing caregiver. What is worse, she is this mother type in a sexy role. Creepy much?

But this is repeated as the natural order of things. Women have to settle for a doofus that she must raise as an extra child. She shouldn't expect to have a partner in a marriage, just someone who it is her duty to care for. It doesn't matter how smart or beautiful of independent she is, she will end up with an idiot to nurture. That is her job and her responsibility.

How is that favoring women?
__________________
:boobkicker:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
LadyShea (06-01-2011), livius drusus (06-01-2011), The Lone Ranger (06-02-2011), The Man (06-03-2011)
  #121  
Old 06-01-2011, 05:50 PM
Ensign Steve's Avatar
Ensign Steve Ensign Steve is offline
more of a before rehab friend
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
Gender: Bender
Posts: XXXLXXII
Images: 66
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
I'm mad at you now because you posted that and I read the comments.
__________________
:kiwf::smurf:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
BrotherMan (06-01-2011), Crumb (06-01-2011), Kael (06-01-2011), livius drusus (06-01-2011), Nullifidian (06-02-2011), SharonDee (06-03-2011), The Man (06-03-2011), Watser? (06-01-2011), Ymir's blood (06-02-2011)
  #122  
Old 06-01-2011, 05:56 PM
Kael's Avatar
Kael Kael is offline
the internet says I'm right
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Western U.S.
Gender: Male
Posts: VMCDXLIV
Blog Entries: 11
Images: 23
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign Steve View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
I'm mad at you now because you posted that and I read the comments.
Gawd, me too.
__________________
For Science!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 06-01-2011, 05:58 PM
lisarea's Avatar
lisarea lisarea is offline
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: XVMDLI
Blog Entries: 1
Images: 3
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

And I at you for saying that. It hadn't even occurred to me to look at the comments until you mentioned them.
:unmad:
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 06-01-2011, 06:04 PM
Vivisectus's Avatar
Vivisectus Vivisectus is offline
Astroid the Foine Loine between a Poirate and a Farrrmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: VMMCCCLI
Blog Entries: 1
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demimonde View Post
I still want to fight about how these "smart" roles supposedly favor women. Issues of primacy and supporting roles aside, these shows perpetuate a terrible idea.

The manchild is often excused of responsibility, while it is the woman's duty to act as the nurturing caregiver. What is worse, she is this mother type in a sexy role. Creepy much?

But this is repeated as the natural order of things. Women have to settle for a doofus that she must raise as an extra child. She shouldn't expect to have a partner in a marriage, just someone who it is her duty to care for. It doesn't matter how smart or beautiful of independent she is, she will end up with an idiot to nurture. That is her job and her responsibility.

How is that favoring women?
You wouldn't call a woman a doofus! Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help Help I'm being repressed!

It does no favors to men or women. Men are dumb, impulsive, and immature, and women are smart, sensible - and yet inexplicably incapable of finding an equal partner.

Probably threatened by smart men, so they seek out intellectual inferiors whose juvenile behavior they enable to make sure they stay helpless... oh fuck, no, thats us again. And these men actually have no other attractive qualities except that after a lot of work has been put into them, they will admit that wifey knows best.

But at least the women come out looking as if they could find their own arse with both hands in under 5 tries.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 06-01-2011, 06:06 PM
Ensign Steve's Avatar
Ensign Steve Ensign Steve is offline
more of a before rehab friend
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
Gender: Bender
Posts: XXXLXXII
Images: 66
Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Good god! Why am I having an argument about sexism in the weightlifting reddit of all fucking places? I'm going to have to quit reddit now. This is all your fault!

(PS: There is no sexism in weightlifting because men are also self-conscious at the gym. :themoreyouknow:)
__________________
:kiwf::smurf:
Reply With Quote
Thanks, from:
Deadlokd (06-02-2011), erimir (06-01-2011), Kael (06-02-2011), LadyShea (06-01-2011), lisarea (06-01-2011), Nullifidian (06-02-2011), The Man (06-03-2011)
Reply

  Freethought Forum > The Public Baths > News, Politics & Law


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.18279 seconds with 14 queries