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Old 12-28-2016, 11:01 PM
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Default "Happy Holidays" My Ass

this Christmas i have seen many a post justifying the use of Happy Holiday over Merry Christmas. they make good points like it is inclusive, nobody gets left out, everybody gets a trophy, blah blah...

but here's the thing- i have never seen a post from any of these people saying "Happy Holidays!" during any other time of year. sure, hanukkah and made-up kwanzaa take place around this time, but there are other religions with holidays on par with the importance of christmas to christians that are celebrated throughout the year.

i don't see signs up at any other time of year. nobody puts up happy holiday signs during ramadan. those signs should never come down given all the religions and their holidays. that greeting should always be used. it should replace hello. so, why is it only done at christmas time? well, because it's an attack on christmas. call it what it is. be honest about it. don't pretend you are a more righteous person for saying happy holidays. admit that you love kicking baby jesus in the nuts.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

Or, alternatively, because Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years come all in a row -- plus Hanukkah, etc. in the same general time frame -- it's easier to just say "Happy Holidays" and include all the celebrations.


When and where I grew up, that was the common and generally-accepted practice; just say "Happy Holidays" to include all the various holidays. Since you would be constantly sending good wishes for some holiday or another for roughly 6 weeks straight, that was considered the easiest way to do it.

Maybe where I grew up was somehow unusual in that sense, though I doubt it. At the time, no one (to my knowledge, anyway) thought that saying "Happy Holidays" was strange, in any way inappropriate, or in any way "discriminatory." [Certainly, during my formative years, no one ever said to me that "Happy Holidays" was in any way an inappropriate greeting and that I should say "Happy Thanksgiving," "Merry Christmas," or "Happy New Year" instead. If anyone ever did, I can't recall any such instance.] People simply applied the general "Happy Holidays" greeting to whichever holiday it happened to apply to at the moment and in the circumstances, and went on with their lives.


So it seems to me that the whole "Happy Holidays"/"Merry Christmas" thing is an entirely made-up "controversy" by people who are looking for an excuse to be "outraged" and/or to pretend that they're somehow being "discriminated against."


Plus, and perhaps more to the point (since no one I knew at the time celebrated either Hanukka or Kwaanza), saying "Happy Holidays" was simpler and easier than saying "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year," which was by far the most common alternative to "Happy Holidays" that I heard when growing up.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

i don't think you quite thought that one through. People have said "Happy New Year" without issue for years. Nobody has suggested it be changed. Saying "Happy Holiday" was not inspired by Hanukkah. Nobody suggested you swap sayings to be more inclusive of people other than Jews. Nobody really celebrates Kwanzaa and if you wished them a happy one they wouldn't suggest you change it to "holiday" to be more inclusive of others. You also didn't address times like Ramadan. Yom Kippur? Do you really say Happy Holidays to people at Thanksgiving? Really? You will get thanked for this for scrambling to reply and justify, but you're a very smart guy and i think if you look deep inside you'll see your answer isn't really that honest. Would you give it a good grade?

I do agree that people are making this into an issue in order to justify their hate for one another.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

Where and when I grew up, "Happy Holidays" was (and as far as I can tell, still is) the traditional greeting from November 'til New Years' day. Alternately, people might say "Happy Thanksgiving" in November, then switch to "Happy Holidays" after Thanksgiving was over.

It certainly wasn't about inclusivity. I never even met a Jewish or Muslim person until I went to college, and had no real grasp of the idea that holidays like Hannuka even existed when I was younger. The general assumption was (and still is, in the region) that everyone you meet is almost-certainly a Bible-believing Christian.

For that matter all of my sisters (like me) still say "Happy Holidays," despite the fact that 2 of them are Fundamentalist Christian, Fox-News-loving, Obama-haters who honestly think that Trump is God's gift to America -- and most-definitely could not care less about whether or not saying "Happy Holidays" is to be more "inclusive." And they are anything but anti-Christian.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

weird.

so people forgo "hello" for all that time?

what strange land are you from? :D
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

I grew up in Western North Carolina. And yes, "Happy Holidays" was by far the most-common greeting during this time of year. (As far as I know, it still is.)

Probably, now that I think on it, that was at least in part because Christmas and New Year's are treated more like one extended, week-long holiday than as two separate holidays. (I still don't really think of them as separate holidays, even to this day -- just one long end-of-one-year/beginning-of-a-new-year celebration.)
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

huh.

well, i guess i'll have to leave Western North Carolinians out of this.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

I honestly don't think I've ever said "Happy Holiday" to someone, though I often say "Happy Holidays." I always assumed this was the standard throughout the country, though I suppose I could be mistaken.

I suppose I haven't been paying attention to whether or not that terminal "s" is applied.


Regardless, I grew up thinking that "Happy Holidays" was the appropriate greeting for this time of year, since that was by far the most commonly-used phrase. And given when and where I grew up, you can be sure that this was in no way due to anti-Christian feelings, much less any desire to take into consideration that there are religions other than Christianity.

So, my first reaction when hearing the claim that saying "Happy Holiday(s)" is somehow "anti-Christian" was: "Seriously? That's going to come as quite a shock to all my hard-core Christian friends and relatives who habitually say 'Happy Holidays' this time of year!"
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Last edited by The Lone Ranger; 12-29-2016 at 12:10 AM. Reason: Added an addendum.
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Old 12-29-2016, 12:22 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

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Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
excuse to be "outraged"
I like the term 'recreationally offended'.
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Old 12-29-2016, 12:54 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

It seems that there is a greater concentration of holidays that are celebrated in Nov-Dec than at other times of year.

You can't say we ignore Islamic holidays because their holidays don't follow the solar calendar. Since Ramadan and Eid al-Adha can occur any time of year, they do not necessarily coincide with other major holidays.

But it's true that we don't much acknowledge Hindu or Buddhist holidays in the US.

I don't typically hear Happy Holidays in the spring even though Passover frequently occurs at about the same time. But I also don't typically hear "Happy Easter" except on Easter, and not much even then. It seems to be a much less overbearing holiday in the first place. Probably this is because it is preceded by Lent, which is not a celebratory season but one of fasting.

Anyway, I don't know what you're on about. "Happy Holidays" has been a thing for a long time, the whining about the "war on Christmas" hasn't.

And even if it was meant to undermine Christmas (or, as I would put it, Christian hegemony), what exactly is your point? I'm not a Christian, I'm not obligated to say Merry Christmas. The US government is not supposed to favor one religion over others, so it's not constitutionally appropriate for the US government to obsess over Christmas in a way it wouldn't over other holidays. What exactly is the wrong being done to them?
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Old 12-29-2016, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

I should point out that now that I'm older and appreciate that there are other holidays celebrated this time of year, I'm content to continue using "Happy Holidays" as a general greeting.

Christmas long ago lost any particular sense of meaning to me. January 1st is just an arbitrary date chosen to mark the completion of yet another orbit around the Sun. Hannuka and Kwanzaa never had any particular meaning to me.


So, I'm happy to say "Happy Holidays" and let the recipient(s) fill in the particular celebration(s) that seem(s) most appropriate. Personally, I wish them well regardless of which holiday(s) they might be celebrating. And I honestly couldn't care less whether they're celebrating Christmas, New Year's, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa -- or for that matter, just marking the Solstice.
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Old 12-29-2016, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

It's the Solstice. That's why there are a bunch of holidays jammed up at this time of year.

I'm not clear on why it is that the Solstice is not the beginning of the New Year. Or, why there are not 13 months of 28 days each, and intercalary day(s) on the solstice. Or 12 months of 30 days and a five to six day festal period each year....I mean, that's what really happens.
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

Several years ago, someone I knew objected to the use of Xmas for an expression of the holiday, saying they are trying to take "Christ" out of Christmas. However "X" is a legitimate abbreviation for Christ and it's use does not constitute taking "Christ" out of Christmas.
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:43 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

Remember that no one is really sure when Jesus, assuming he was a real historical figure, was born, but most scholars agree that it was NOT at Christmastime.

So it was the Church that appropriated a pre-existing holiday, and therefore it's quite correct to use some alternative name for seasonal holiday greetings if you don't want to be associated with the dishonesty of (now long dead) religious nutters.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:00 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

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Remember that no one is really sure when Jesus, assuming he was a real historical figure, was born, but most scholars agree that it was NOT at Christmastime.

So it was the Church that appropriated a pre-existing holiday, and therefore it's quite correct to use some alternative name for seasonal holiday greetings if you don't want to be associated with the dishonesty of (now long dead) religious nutters.
oh, i agree.

so why that time of year for happy holidays? do people still want to associate with the even older religious nutters? bunch of heathens. :preach:
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

thanksgiving is a christian thing, too. who do you think those early settlers were giving thanks to? and it's a theme that predates north american colonization.

new year's is a nice secular holiday, but ain't nobody yelling "Happy Holiday!" at midnight.


baby jesus. right in the balls.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

Tell that to my Christian Fundamentalist sisters. I dare you.
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Old 12-29-2016, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

It's pretty simple really. Happy Holidays is short for 'Happy Winter Holidays' which is of course short for Holy Days. As mentioned, if you happen to be European or from the cold areas there tends to be a lot of celebrations about surviving the cold and praying to one's god. And of course the Christian's targeted that to tag christ along.

I mean what really is Christmas anyway? It's not like fur trees and Santa have much to do with Christ's Mas.
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Old 12-29-2016, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

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Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
excuse to be "outraged"
They are deeply offended at your implication they would ever need an excuse.
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Old 12-29-2016, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

Do all y'all North Americans see the phrase "Season's Greetings"?

It's all over the place here on cards and decorations. As far as I'm aware no normal person ever says it out loud, but it's been a thing for decades.
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

Occasionally I forget why I've got Zee on my ignore list and I take a peek. Often I remain confused. Sometimes, I end up kicking baby jesus in the nuts. Is baby jesus being kicked in the nuts every time Andy Williams comes on the radio? No. In the vast majority of contexts I doubt you care or notice.

Has it occurred to you that it could be the slightest bit awkward to wish people a "merry {religion I don't believe in}"? Giving the wrong impression about my own beliefs can make a really strained conversation. "Nice to see someone using the proper term, where are you attending mass?" "oh, um..." I don't care at all if people wish me a Merry Christmas - I'm (usually) free to take it or leave it.

You're right, I don't generally wish people a merry Hanukkah for form's sake. Nobody's telling me I'm kicking god in the nuts by not doing so.
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

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Occasionally I forget why I've got Zee on my ignore list and I take a peek.

well, as i said a shitload of years ago- most people who have me on ignore aren't ignoring me. most take a peek. i''m like a peepshow.

:flasher:
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

Gawdz. It's fucking ironic, innit, that the exact same people who are always complaining about political correctness are trying to tell everyone else what to say. :ironymeter:
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: "Happy Holidays" My Ass

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Has it occurred to you that it could be the slightest bit awkward to wish people a "merry {religion I don't believe in}"? Giving the wrong impression about my own beliefs can make a really strained conversation.
It's the Christian version of a Jizyah. Only instead of money, it's about power. "Acknowledge my God, infidel."
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Old 12-30-2016, 03:07 AM
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Gawdz. It's fucking ironic, innit, that the exact same people who are always complaining about political correctness are trying to tell everyone else what to say. :ironymeter:

lol. i'm not trying to tell you what to say. i'm not offended by happy holidays. doesn't bother me in the least.

political correctness and hyper sensitivity is a real thing though. a good recent example is poor Steve Martin, deleting his post about Carrie Fischer. the world's a bit fucked up right now.

but i'll smile and reply in kind if you say it to me. on my fault report last Saturday i wished everyone on the email chain a Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday. i don't mind the extra writing. it only takes a couple of seconds.

(it was a clean show, btw)
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