Springtime for Geek Girls?

[Ymir's blood]

From what I gather, cosplay is supposed to be DIY, but I've seen that about Halloween costumes, certainly.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by Ymir's blood

However, it's hard to completely disregard that viewpoint when someone is dressed in a bikini version of a costume that shouldn't be a bikini. Somewhere recently, I saw a female wookie costume that was a fur bikini. Just that, no mask or anything to signify that the wearer was actually a wookie. Maybe they were cosplaying as a wookie hunter?

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Try buying a women's costume that isn't a skimpy or sexy version of whatever. Not everyone sews, and you might be surprised how hard it is to find affordable adult female costumes that aren't meant to give men boners.

I was thinking the same thing, and it isn't even necessarily the store-bought vs. DIY thing that is the whole issue (although I'm sure that's part of it), but it's just that we've been taught ever since we graduated from the "girls" to the "juniors" department (some of us heavier girls at a much younger age than average) that that is simply what costumes are. Men are firefighters and women are sexy firefighters. If a young woman is a newbie to geek culture, it might not occur to her that it doesn't have to be that way, because that's all she's ever known.

Also, for both store-bought and DIY, the smaller (as in skimpier) versions are cheaper and easier. If they want people to say "nice costume!" (that's an if, but presumably people like it when their work on their costume is recognized) ladies can either go hugely elaborate or boner-inducing. If they're new to the scene and don't know what they're doing and haven't been working on improving their costume over the years, boner-inducing is more attainable.

Dudes don't necessarily have that option*, but ladies do, and boy do dudes resent it when ladies have more options than they do. Some guy in a huge elaborate costume is probably going to resent the attention the bikini-clad women get, because it was so much more work for him. I dunno, just spitballing here.

*I wanted to post a link to exceptions for thornoughness, and also because I really want to see them, but a google image search for "sexy men at dragoncon" mostly returned pictures of sexy women at dragoncon, so there you go.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by Ymir's blood

From what I gather, cosplay is supposed to be DIY, but I've seen that about Halloween costumes, certainly.

Well yeah, DIY is the shit, and for serious cosplay I imagine it's almost mandatory.

I was mostly talking about Halloween, and "casual fan" dress up for a movie or book release (I think wei yau said they dressed in "Capitol Couture" to see Hunger Games), or going to a Renn Faire or theme park or some shit.

[seebs]

I once saw a Halloween costume for little girls with the official title "Ravished Vampire". Pretty sure they meant "ravishing", but you really can't tell these days.

[Janet]

Just want to point out that, as I said in Miscellany, I got my geek-cred in the womb. Take that all you posers who waited until you were born!

[Ymir's blood]

I will reclaim geek cred by being a grammar elitist and that it is 'poseur' and not 'poser.'

[Ensign Steve]

There's another thing about the wookee bikini that I keep thinking about but I have a hard time articulating so I haven't tried yet, but I really want to get it out there.

It appeals to me in the way it appeals to me when musical artists do cross-genre covers (like Cake's "I Will Survive" or Dynamite Hack's "Boys in the Hood"), where it's like this ironic mash-up of styles you wouldn't expect. What does a wookee have to do with a bikini? Nothing, but both are awesome, so it's funny and startling and weird. It's not all that disimilar from Star Trek corsets, which for some reason get a pass, probably because geeks like corsets.

I could see it for the sexy firefighter, too. Like you have to take a traditional costume or uniform and deconstruct it to find what is the minimum essence necessary to convey the firefighter or wookee identity? When you have to map your costume to a bikini, you are forced to minimalize it and pull out only the most essential parts. I could see it as a fun and interesting design challenge, and if you've got the body to display a bikini well, I can understand making that choice for a con. Contrary to popular belief, ladies aren't always only thinking about how their costume will affect boners, even when it's a bikini, but rather what they (we) are going to look like in it.

Oh, yeah, I thought if it some more when I saw this thing today. Website dress makes about as much sense as wookee bikini. It's just weird and fun.

[seebs]

Yeah. I think there is a world of difference between "I like how I look" and "I think people will get off on looking at me". There's often some overlap in what people like, but they really are not the same thing.

[Ymir's blood]

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

What does a wookee have to do with a bikini? Nothing, but both are awesome, so it's funny and startling and weird.

I can see what you are saying when it comes to a modified version of a character's outfit. This specific costume still seems weird to me because the defining characteristic of a wookiee is the body completely covered with fur, including the face. In that, it fails to convey the concept of being a wookiee. De gustibus non disputandum est is ultimately in play here. Just because it doesn't work for me doesn't mean that it is wrong.

[Ymir's blood]

Can’t Geeks All Get Along? | No, Seriously, What About Teh Menz?

About a year and a half ago, a story broke about a little girl who was teased for having a Star Wars water bottle because Star Wars “is for boys.” The geek community rose to her aid, informing her that she shouldn’t let her tastes be dictated by gender norms.

While the boys in question were being mean, this article is not about them. Rather, it’s about the response to the incident and some who took it too far.

[Ymir's blood]

Moviefone’s Girl’s Guide to the Avengers – Now With More Stereotypes! | The Discriminating Fangirl

If there’s anything that’ll spur me to get back to my blogging, it’s fangirl feminist rage. And in today’s edition, we have an absolutely boneheaded, sexist piece of crap in the form of Moviefone’s “Girl’s Guide to the Avengers”.

Seriously, writer? Instead of writing an intelligent guide to the movies for people who aren’t already fans, you write this? Using idiotic, sexist stereotypes? Sorry. Even as a humorous piece, it fails horribly.

[Stormlight]

Editor's Note: As you can see, we've gotten a lot of heat for this article. It was meant to be a satirical piece, and obviously, it did not come across that way.

Of course it was.

[Demimonde]

[The Lone Ranger]

I thanked that, even though it made me want to scour my eyes with sandpaper ...

[Watser?]

Shield Guy and Bow and Arrow Guy are kinda in sexy pose in the first picture.

[lisarea]

Technology - Alexis Madrigal - Sorry, Young Man, You're Not the Most Important Demographic in Tech - The Atlantic

[Ymir's blood]

Isn't ironic that that the picture at the top is focused on the man and the woman is blurry?

[lisarea]

The caption makes up for that, though.

[Ymir's blood]

A young man contemplating his decreasing significance on the world stage

Is he contemplating his decreasing significance or the fact that his significance was actually overstated?

[Demimonde]

While I agree that women's purchasing power is under recognized by tech, even with recent coverage about it I am doubtful that the industry or advertising will change any time soon. Women's power in consumer choices have been recognized in other sectors for a long time, yet industry practices and advertising is still full of sexist messaging and images. Heck, no one disputes that women dominate spending in the fashion industry, yet look at the mess of sexist practices that exist there. Yet another example that men are not the sole perpetuators of patriarchy. Our entire culture is complicit, and both sexes are part of it.

The coverage of the mismatch between media and reality makes me glad. Yet even if the industry does start targeting women as consumers, I predict it will be more of the girl vs girl hate exhibited in much of the examples in this thread. They will appeal to the demo as though those women are super special snowflakes and "better" than other women by virtue of joining the boys' club. Fanboy narratives, like the Mac vs PC of yesteryears, will be rewritten to pit "true" geek girls against poseurs. "True" in this sense will simple mean those who purchase their products. And they will bank off it.

Heck, perhaps it has already begun to an extant.

[LadyShea]

Speaking of buying decision making and women, I was looking for a Wii commercial I remembered where the mom kicks everyone's butts after they bet chores, and she was all like "In your face!" and I found some dude at some forum who called her "a serious bitch" for trash talking opponents in a competition. Which isn't trash talking in a heated competition with high stakes like that a totally normal thing to do for men? Why not for women?

Then I found this article about smart business practices regarding video games here that holds this commercial up as s-m-r-t, but the commercial isn't available anywhere that I can find

Doing the Unthinkable

The Wii commercial removes the need for this family strife by doing the unthinkable. It makes Mom the star of a video game ad. It proactively answers each of the motherly objections, using Rad Mom as the spokesperson.

ETA: Found it

Wii Holiday - Rad Mom @ http://bit.ly/e4llZH ...

[Demimonde]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

some dude at some forum who called her "a serious bitch" for trash talking opponents in a competition. Which isn't trash talking in a heated competition with high stakes like that a totally normal thing to do for men? Why not for women?

That is doubly funny because of the crazy coverage recently of verbal harassment women gamers face just by being online. Mostly that was brushed off as boys will be boys "trash talking" and OMG ladies get over yourselves! There was a huge bruhaha about it earlier this year.

For some examples fatuglyorslutty.com shows screenshots of the kinds of messages girls get across all kinds of platforms. Not in the Kitchen Anymore presents sound clips all gathered by one gamer Jenny Haniver. (I am freaking in love with her handle) This is the stuff she hears in her mic every time she logs on.

I dig the commercial though. It is clear they are targeting women/moms with it. I only wish it showed her not only being awesome at the game, but enjoying the game for its own sake rather than as a vehicle to transfer domestic labor. I know why it "works" and is compelling as an advert, but does a woman always have to be shown as either a domestic diva mom or as a sex object. Madonna/whore ect. ect.

As a side note, when I worked at Gamestop way back in the day, our manager was really aggressive about recruiting female employees. Not in a pervy or booth babe way, either. He would ask us to bring in our girl gamer friends even if they only wanted a couple shifts a week. We always had at least one woman each shift, often there would be more. He recognized that there was a huge demo of women coming into his store and being uncomfortable and leaving without buying anything. Or they would just grab a title or peripheral and run. Which he could not allow. He wanted them to enjoy the store, play with the demos, talk reservations, and have a fun safe time in his store while dropping lots of cash. He also knew he was competing with Walmart and Best Buy and the big box stores, places that are not so much hostile nerd havens and had a more consumer based focus.

Other stores laughed at us and accused him of having Charlies Angels fantasies because his Asst Manager, Third Key, and Top seller were all women. But we killed them each month in revenues. Like murdered them. One because we did not chase off a huge demo, but instead catered to them. Two because, yeah, some gamer guys would drive across town to come to our store because WOW GIRLS. Matt would out the smack down on them if they were nasty to us. Many of our regulars enjoyed talking games with us just as much as Advisers at other stores and with equal respect. At least, I like to think so.

Last I heard, that young man is Regional Director for all the stores in North Texas, which makes me happy as he was a joy to work with. He may have even moved higher, that was over five years ago and Gamestop has a headquarters here. I hope so. I need to look him up again.

[LadyShea]

There are other Wii commercials showing moms and women and whole families just having fun. They actually do a pretty good job IMO...and I am biased because the Wii is a total family thing for us..even my parents play.

I thought that one was funny though because she's so Holiday Martha Stewart with her coffee and sweater then just a competitive beast while playing.

There is a counterpart to that one with the dad with the coffee and sweater, but he loses all the time. These are meant to be tongue in cheek I think

Wii Family Christmas Commercial - YouTube

Here's some other good Wii commercials (I like the "Wii would like to play" series)

Nintendo Wii Family Christmas TV Commercial ...

Nintendo Wii commercial - Family Fun -...

Wii commercial - YouTube

[LadyShea]

OMG. From Demi's link:

"Can I get my Street Fighter without the sexual harassment?” He replied, “You can’t. You can’t because they’re one and the same thing. This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of the culture. If you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community…. It doesn’t make sense to have that attitude. These things have been established for years.”

So it's okay as long as it's part of a subculture?

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by Demimonde

While I agree that women's purchasing power is under recognized by tech, even with recent coverage about it I am doubtful that the industry or advertising will change any time soon. Women's power in consumer choices have been recognized in other sectors for a long time, yet industry practices and advertising is still full of sexist messaging and images. Heck, no one disputes that women dominate spending in the fashion industry, yet look at the mess of sexist practices that exist there. Yet another example that men are not the sole perpetuators of patriarchy. Our entire culture is complicit, and both sexes are part of it.

Yeah, I'm sure that there isn't going to be an immediate turnaround or anything, but I've seen some huge changes in the tech industry and culture just in recent years. People are actually calling out a lot of sexist practices that have gone almost entirely unchallenged since just about forever. Companies are actually having to apologize for things that have been standard practices in the industry since forever (booth girls, sexist marketing and pickup culture, things like that). A lot of conferences are adopting anti-harassment policies, and those that aren't are being called out on it.

Women have been largely invisible in the tech sector for a long time, despite being there all along, so simply acknowledging that women are working in and buying technology is a pretty big step.

The coverage of the mismatch between media and reality makes me glad. Yet even if the industry does start targeting women as consumers, I predict it will be more of the girl vs girl hate exhibited in much of the examples in this thread. They will appeal to the demo as though those women are super special snowflakes and "better" than other women by virtue of joining the boys' club. Fanboy narratives, like the Mac vs PC of yesteryears, will be rewritten to pit "true" geek girls against poseurs. "True" in this sense will simple mean those who purchase their products. And they will bank off it.

Heck, perhaps it has already begun to an extant.

I hate that term, but women who talk like that are actually referred to as special snowflakes, AKA "the only girl on the tennis court" or "one of the boys," and the phenomenon is pretty well documented and derided, which tends to take something from the whole claim of uniqueness that's central to it. Sometimes, just naming and calling out a behavior like that can really help to squash it. There's a certain point after which you have a blizzard of 'special snowflakes' that they realize that maybe they're not such exceptions to the gender rules and the other women they're setting themselves apart from are mostly just social constructs.

There will always be a conflict between casual vs. dedicated fans or anything, but gendering doesn't need to be a central part of it.

As far as the marketing and media narrative goes, I think the primary message needs to be that women aren't some new market that needs to be attracted. They already use the same consumer electronics that men do, and for the same reasons. So it's not a matter of pinkifying* electronics or making things 'friendlier' to some stereotypical demographic, but maybe it's just a matter of acknowledging that some of your customers are women by ditching the presumption of maleness and othering all the rest of your customers.

* And here's the thing about pinkifying: Offering consumer electronics in a variety of colors is just plain a good idea. There's nothing inexcusably frivolous about preferring colors you like to look at; and having different colored devices actually serves a practical purpose, making it easier to distinguish and locate your gadgets in your bag, in your house, or among a bunch of other gadgets on a conference table or something. You'd spend a lot less time looking for your cell phone or your camera if it were teal or something. And I would suggest a broad consumer study to find the price point at which men vs. women would pay to get a device in their preferred color. I'm pretty sure that you'd find that women would be willing to shell out significantly less for the choice of a pink vs. a black phone than men would. Then, we'd be able to confidently taunt men for caring too much about what color something is.