Discussion on Scientology

[Kevlar]

I started this thread yesterday on Xenu:

http://www.freethought-forum.com/for...ead.php?t=7370

Wei Yau has a link on there to an interesting looking book.

I too, read Dianetics, and found it to be beyond absurd. That is, until I heard about Xenu. Then I had to move Scientology from the absurd category, to the fucking-looney category.

[Corona688]

Originally Posted by Ohm

Meh, I don't like to limit my opinion. I'm willing to listen to the opposing force in order to understand the underlying topic.

The problem with that is, not all viewpoints are equal. The viewpoint that the moon is made of green cheese does not deserve or enjoy an equal debate with the viewpoint that the moon is made of rocks.

Your ability to understand, generalize, and draw conclusions is working quite well -- dianetics is garbage. There are lots of people who only find that out after they've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars. We could go on all day about the various faults of scientology...

[lisarea]

If you or anyone you know is seriously considering considering Scientology seriously, I'd suggest that you just read a little bit of their advanced materials. Just about anything. Then decide for yourself whether you really think it merits understanding.

One of my personal favorites would be the stuff about Gorilla and Aircraft Goals.

Scroll down toward the end--it's the last section of quoted material

This is the kind of thing they teach you. I've recently seen Scientologists trying to claim that some of the passages people quote are fabricated, but I once got a cease and desist letter from their head counsel threatening me if I didn't stop disseminating parts of this passage and a few others, based on the fact that they were 'trade secrets.' That's pretty direct confirmation that it's real.

And while you're at it, go back to the contents and read through for a description of exactly how they fuck with people to get them to the point that they're receptive to this kind of thing.

These are not reasonable people. These are not reasonable or harmless beliefs in any way.

[Leesifer]

And sane people really do believe all that shit?

My gaster is flabbered.

[Kevlar]

The great irony here is that they call themselves Scientologists, implying that there is some sort of Science behind it. But it is really just another revealed religion, that requires you to just believe the authoritative word of the prophet. Not to mention, pay out your ass.

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by Leesifer

And sane people really do believe all that shit?

I guess for large enough values of sane. Their material gets progressively more tweaked as they get their recruits deeper in, financially and emotionally. By the time you're introduced to this stuff, you've invested a hell of a lot in terms of money, time, energy, and commitment. You're overwhelmed, you're probably distanced from your family and friends, and you're exhausted, physically, emotionally, and financially.

I guess that, by the time you're exposed to this kind of stuff, Scientology is all you've got left, so you're strongly disinclined to reject it.

[Leesifer]

Originally Posted by lisarea

I've recently seen Scientologists trying to claim that some of the passages people quote are fabricated, but I once got a cease and desist letter from their head counsel threatening me if I didn't stop disseminating parts of this passage and a few others, based on the fact that they were 'trade secrets.'

I'm also quite stunned that you were threatened, lisarea.

Originally Posted by lisarea

I guess for large enough values of sane. Their material gets progressively more tweaked as they get their recruits deeper in, financially and emotionally. By the time you're introduced to this stuff, you've invested a hell of a lot in terms of money, time, energy, and commitment. You're overwhelmed, you're probably distanced from your family and friends, and you're exhausted, physically, emotionally, and financially.

I guess that, by the time you're exposed to this kind of stuff, Scientology is all you've got left, so you're strongly disinclined to reject it.

I guess I can understand that and I shouldn't be surprised at what people can get caught up in/led to believe.

You seem quite up on all this, have you actually met a real live Scientologist?

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Scientologists are lame.

Some are also pretty rich.

Does it pay to be lame?

Apparently...


michael

[Crumb]

Methinks thou confuseth correlation with causation.

[The Jesus Lawyer]

I'm related to many caucasians. I'm white- duh!

michael

[Crumb]

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by Leesifer

I'm also quite stunned that you were threatened, lisarea.

Oh, it was really common. I think I was among the first batch to get the emails, but they sent out hundreds of them. Look up "Helena Kobrin" (their chief counsel at the time) for lots of references to them.

You seem quite up on all this, have you actually met a real live Scientologist?

Sort of. I originally was just making fun of them on the internet, but then they sent me the C&D and stuff, and at one point, I was getting harassing phone calls in the middle of the night and they were leaving shit on my doorstep.

I don't know what might have made them think that'd do anything but piss me off more. But that's what it did.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by lisarea

they were leaving shit on my doorstep

You mean like actual feces or like a pumpkin with a knife through its head and a note attached that says "You"?

[The Jesus Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Crumb

Indeed.

So what is this Dianetics? Does it at least help you to lose weight?


michael

[Leesifer]

Originally Posted by lisarea

Look up "Helena Kobrin" (their chief counsel at the time) for lots of references to them.

Thanks! I've found a few sites. There's a ton of stuff that turns up, just Googling her name.

Originally Posted by lisarea

I was getting harassing phone calls in the middle of the night and they were leaving shit on my doorstep.

Bloody hell!

Originally Posted by livius drusus

You mean like actual feces or like a pumpkin with a knife through its head and a note attached that says "You"?

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

You mean like actual feces or like a pumpkin with a knife through its head and a note attached that says "You"?

No, it was just stacks of Scientology pamphlets, but they left them several times over a short period of time, and my neighbors weren't getting any, then someone (I think the phone guy) made some reference to it. They just wanted me to know that they knew where I lived.

I hate when, like, you have to tell about crazy shit like that and it just ends up sounding like you are the crazy one. I swear it's true, though.

[Perry]

Sometimes reality is more crazy than fiction. Horror films don't really scare me. Only really stupid people or extremely smart bad people.

[Ohm]

In My efforts to understand the methodology behind what drive scientologist mind-set i ordered dianetics Dvd [A real good alternative to the Damn confusing book version. Im critically analizing the dianetics.

i will give my review soon for those who haven't understand dianetics

[SharonDee]

I don't know yet if I can understand it. Every time I tried to read the copy my BIL lent me, I fell asleep.

I look forward to your review, Ohm.

[Leesifer]

Originally Posted by Ohm

In My efforts to understand the methodology behind what drive scientologist mind-set i ordered dianetics Dvd [A real good alternative to the Damn confusing book version. Im critically analizing the dianetics.

i will give my review soon for those who haven't understand dianetics

I'm looking forward to your review too, Ohm.

[Ohm]

Well here my Article/Review on dianetics enjoi guy

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/article.php?a=30

[Leesifer]

I read your article, Ohm.

Originally Posted by Ohm

My review the DVD was 40mins, not enough time to inform you of anything, and will leave you with a need to buy Dianetics The Book version and other products and join the church.

.

That's a good marketing ploy, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Ohm

my mom is now getting into scientology.

Are you going to show your article to your Mum?

[Ohm]

Originally Posted by Leesifer

That's a good marketing ploy, isn't it?

Yup, but i'm not surprized.

Originally Posted by Leesifer

Are you going to show your article to your Mum?

No need she looking into something else. Plus when a person believe something logic won't help, well....maybe unless they realize themselve

[Mr & Mrs Smith]

http://www.xenu.net

I thought I would share this with you guys on sciencetology.
One thing that makes me laugh is the symbolic way that the books are stacked on some Ad's it looks like a pyramid of books each costing a few bucks to explain why you have emotional outburts?
Amway seems to like this as a main ideology never mind!
I watched south park on this topic aswell to get some humor injected into me it worked a treat!

[Angakuk]

Nice piece here on Scientology, written by Mark Ebner. Originally published in Spy magazine.