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  #176  
Old 02-01-2018, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

It's a war on children...

Israel expels Palestinian girl from West Bank to Gaza without notifying her parents – Middle East Monitor
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  #177  
Old 02-25-2018, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

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  #178  
Old 02-25-2018, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

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Is it more insulting that Trump probably doesn't know, understand, or care?
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  #179  
Old 02-25-2018, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

Trump himself doesn't know. It's possible, however, that if he did know that he liked the idea of doing it on that day.

I bet some of the people working for him who were involved with this decision did know.
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  #180  
Old 02-25-2018, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

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Is it more insulting that Trump probably doesn't know, understand, or care?
It's that none of you know, understand or care...
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  #181  
Old 02-26-2018, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

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Is it more insulting that Trump probably doesn't know, understand, or care?
It's that none of you know, understand or care...
Well, I know, understand, and care a little bit, but it's not the defining cause of my life.

If you want to get nit-picky, the embassy opening is specifically tied to Israeli independence:

Opening of U.S. Embassy Jerusalem
Quote:
The opening will coincide with Israelís 70th anniversary.
The Palestinian Authority chose a day to commemorate the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians that is tied with Israeli independence, so a benefit to Israel in May is an insult to Palestine as well.

I'm changing my assessment. I'm betting the Trump administration knows and straight up doesn't care. Trump himself is a foolish manchild and likes that this will be considered a "win".
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  #182  
Old 02-26-2018, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

'Israeli independence' = Mass ethnic cleansing. So yeah, something to celebrate. And don't pretend it's any different for the Democrats. They have generally been worse. Clinton was a foolish manchild who stabbed the Palestinians in the back. The US Empire in general is a manchild...
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  #183  
Old 02-26-2018, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

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'Israeli independence' = Mass ethnic cleansing. So yeah, something to celebrate.
The Israelis and the Trump administration think so. If Israeli independence wasn't so closely tied to the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, I'd be all for the celebration, as I think Israel has a right to exist.

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And don't pretend it's any different for the Democrats. They have generally been worse. Clinton was a foolish manchild who stabbed the Palestinians in the back. The US Empire in general is a manchild...
I think your perspective is interesting. It's been well hashed out, and I don't really agree with you on that.

Nor will I ever feel the level of outrage you do. :shrug2:

Besides, I think I answered my own question.
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  #184  
Old 02-26-2018, 04:41 AM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

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'Israeli independence' = Mass ethnic cleansing. So yeah, something to celebrate.
The Israelis and the Trump administration think so. If Israeli independence wasn't so closely tied to the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, I'd be all for the celebration, as I think Israel has a right to exist.
"Right to exist" doesn't really mean anything.

People have a right not to be killed, of course. And self-determination is recognized to some extent. At least in theory, but in practice independence movements are a bit hit and miss.

But when Israelis talk about a "right to exist", they largely mean some variation or combination of the following:
1. the right for Israel to exist as a Jewish state, meaning that special privileges are accorded to Jewish citizens and/or non-citizens (Law of Return) AND the Jewish majority of the population must be maintained
2. the right for Israel to exist in its exact current geographical configuration
3. the right for Israel to maintain "security" which means Palestine can never have full sovereignty since the borders of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza mean that the entire country is essentially a border area

Effectively, to never grant full citizenship to Palestinians in either their own state (Israel will control their borders and limit their military capabilities, along with the necessary impositions to do so) or in a unified Israel-Palestine (that would bring an end to the Jewish majority).

The use of the term "right to exist" is meant to conflate these ideas with the idea that Israeli Jews shouldn't be ethnically cleansed from the area (by death or deportation).

But if, like me, you support freedom of religion and oppose special rights for certain religions, you can't recognize Israel's "right to exist" in the sense that they mean it. I don't support their right to exist as a Jewish state.

Anyway, I can't possibly care about this because I decline to throw away my vote in US elections which primarily affect America and affect a myriad of other international issues aside from Palestine and would accomplish nothing to help Palestine anyway, and don't obsess about it given that I have little to no ability to affect things.
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  #185  
Old 02-26-2018, 05:43 AM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

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The use of the term "right to exist" is meant to conflate these ideas with the idea that Israeli Jews shouldn't be ethnically cleansed from the area (by death or deportation).

But if, like me, you support freedom of religion and oppose special rights for certain religions, you can't recognize Israel's "right to exist" in the sense that they mean it. I don't support their right to exist as a Jewish state.
You have a point, and I basically agree.

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Anyway, I can't possibly care about this because I decline to throw away my vote in US elections which primarily affect America and affect a myriad of other international issues aside from Palestine and would accomplish nothing to help Palestine anyway, and don't obsess about it given that I have little to no ability to affect things.
Well, I care, but just a little bit. Of all the reasons to vote or not vote for a US politician, this isn't a primary issue, but I suppose a really regressive attitude or a really progressive one might make me reconsider someone.
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  #186  
Old 02-26-2018, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

[quote=specious_reasons;1308923]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watser? View Post
'Israeli independence' = Mass ethnic cleansing. So yeah, something to celebrate.
The Israelis and the Trump administration think so. If Israeli independence wasn't so closely tied to the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, I'd be all for the celebration, as I think Israel has a right to exist.[\quote]
There's no such thing for a state as a 'right to exist', it was invented specifically for Israel. And it only DOES exist BECAUSE of the ethnic cleansing and the continuation thereof by denying the Palestinians a real right: the right to return.

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And don't pretend it's any different for the Democrats. They have generally been worse. Clinton was a foolish manchild who stabbed the Palestinians in the back. The US Empire in general is a manchild...
I think your perspective is interesting. It's been well hashed out, and I don't really agree with you on that.

Nor will I ever feel the level of outrage you do. :shrug2:

Besides, I think I answered my own question.
Well, that's the thing isn't it. You are basically in favor of the US empire and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Or at least not inclined to do anything about it.
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  #187  
Old 02-26-2018, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

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Well, that's the thing isn't it. You are basically in favor of the US empire and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Or at least not inclined to do anything about it.
Not in favor of the US acting imperial, but doing something about Palestinian ethnic cleansing isn't my #1 priority even so.
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  #188  
Old 02-26-2018, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

The thing is the choices basically are: bomb brown people and support gay rights (or pretend to like Bill Clinton) or bomb brown people and don't support gay rights.
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  #189  
Old 02-26-2018, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Trumphole starts another fucking fire

Stop living in denial, Israel is an evil state - Opinion - Israel News | Haaretz.com

Couldn't have put it better myself. An evil state which is propped up by the US and EU. It would collapse the second they stop supporting it.
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