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  #1  
Old 08-02-2008, 06:02 AM
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Default Blast from the Soviet past

1984 interview with Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov. A must see for those of you who think Reagan was a hate monger for calling Soviet Russia an evil empire.

Part 1

[youtube]jVZ4Lkm6JQw[/youtube]

Part 2

[youtube]0kz7J-921a0[/youtube]

Part 3

[youtube]lo2duFpyzYI[/youtube]

Part 4

[youtube]uyCcjs5AYfs[/youtube]

Part 5

[youtube]4d6_ssaRkpk[/youtube]

Part 6

[youtube]AYpfSdrUP6Q[/youtube]

Part 7

[youtube]KQvTgnTBVyY[/youtube]

Part 8

[youtube]M_t2qGxU18E[/youtube]

Part 9

[youtube]PEy_ihziQfA[/youtube]
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Old 08-02-2008, 06:19 AM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

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1984 interview with Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov. A must see for those of you who think Reagan was a hate monger for calling Soviet Russia an evil empire.
ROFL. Because we disagree with your politics, we like the soviets.

It's not possible to disagree with both after all.
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2008, 06:28 AM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

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1984 interview with Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov. A must see for those of you who think Reagan was a hate monger for calling Soviet Russia an evil empire.
ROFL. Because we disagree with your politics, we like the soviets.
I never said anything like that, obviously. And unless you've seen this interview elsewhere (or cracked The Gulag Archipelago, or gleaned from other sources a sane perspective on the Soviet Union, which you obviously haven't) you can't possibly have any idea what I'm getting at.
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Old 08-02-2008, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

So the Gulag Archipelago was a bad thing then? Gosh, this is news to me :rolls:

But it is a good thing now that the US is doing basically the same thing to its opponents around the world.
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2008, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

Yeah, for an American to point this out is a rillyrilly telling example of the pot calling the kettle black.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

Waddup, my Negro cooking device? :lowfive:
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2008, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

I did harbor a faint hope of getting comments on the interview, but since it's not happening I'll point out that according to Bezmenov, the plan to demoralize America succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of the Soviets, because what was initially done by communist agents to Americans is now being done to Americans by each other. Such a gross underestimation of the effects of mass propaganda is probably best explained by the fact that the Soviets were, perhaps even somewhat deliberately, ignorant of the dark spiritual forces they had helped set in motion, and which had in fact set them in motion.
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

Yeah, yeah, the devil was behind communism and Gawd is on the side of the US :cuckoo:
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:27 PM
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Sorry America, but Scotland is the dark land overrun with powerful homosexuals.
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

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Originally Posted by from Scarlatti's linked article
"In Europe, the big word is tolerance. Homosexuals are riding high in the media ... And in Scotland, you can't believe how strong the homosexuals are. It's just unbelievable," Robertson said.
Pat Robertson --> :hulkout: <-- Scottish homosexual
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

Those Scottish homosexuals have contests in who can fling a tree the farthest.

http://nl.
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

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Originally Posted by Corona688 View Post
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Originally Posted by yguy View Post
1984 interview with Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov. A must see for those of you who think Reagan was a hate monger for calling Soviet Russia an evil empire.
ROFL. Because we disagree with your politics, we like the soviets.
I never said anything like that, obviously. And unless you've seen this interview elsewhere (or cracked The Gulag Archipelago, or gleaned from other sources a sane perspective on the Soviet Union, which you obviously haven't) you can't possibly have any idea what I'm getting at.
In re the implication that yguy has a "sane perspective on the Soviet Union":
:laughdie:
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

:potkettleblack:
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

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Originally Posted by yguy View Post
1984 interview with Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov. A must see for those of you who think Reagan was a hate monger for calling Soviet Russia an evil empire.
ROFL. Because we disagree with your politics, we like the soviets.
I never said anything like that, obviously. And unless you've seen this interview elsewhere (or cracked The Gulag Archipelago, or gleaned from other sources a sane perspective on the Soviet Union, which you obviously haven't) you can't possibly have any idea what I'm getting at.
In re the implication that yguy has a "sane perspective on the Soviet Union":
:laughdie:
What do you find insane about my view of the SU?

And do you also find the views of Bezmenov and Solzhenitsyn insane? If yes, what do you know that they didn't?
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Old 08-08-2008, 04:13 AM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

You tend to have a very Cold War Propaganda view of the Soviet Union (going by the posts I have seen of yours on the subject). I do not argue that it was paradise (far from it), but I do take issue with the Evil Empire trope.

I know a number of things they didn't (couldn't, since the records were not available to them), and do not know a number of things they did know.
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Old 08-08-2008, 05:24 AM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

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I know a number of things they didn't (couldn't, since the records were not available to them), and do not know a number of things they did know.
Have you been watching old Donald Rumsfeld press conferences? :P
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  #17  
Old 08-08-2008, 05:27 AM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

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...I do take issue with the Evil Empire trope.
Why?
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I know a number of things they didn't (couldn't, since the records were not available to them),
What such things mitigate against Solzhenitsyn's view of Soviet Russia as a nightmare for anyone but psychopathic predators to live in, or against Bezmenov's view of its intent towards America as predatory?
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

Let's be clear here, I am not trying to defend Stalinism, I am adamantly opposed to it. However, the "Evil Empire" thing served a purpose here (the States). It also serves to paint an entire group of people who were caught up (literally and figuratively) in the crimes of Stalin's USSR as complicit when, in fact, they were the victims of a vast betrayal.

What I take issue with are the claims often laid out that this situation was 1)socialism, and 2)inevitable. Neither is true. Stalinism was a nationalist program, which very rapidly returned to a capitalist economy after the "fall". Socialism, by contrast, is an international programme. It was not inevitable, but came about through a series of betrayals, lies, and murders. There was a viable alternative at the time, and there was strong opposition.

The early years of "Soviet Russia", after the civil wars, but before the advent of Stalin's seizing power, showed huge advances- especially considering the level of backwardness at the time of the Revolution itself. It was not perfect, but it *was* moving in the direction of equality. To just say "Soviet Russia" is to ignore quite a bit of history- it was not from the word go Stalinist. Quite the opposite.
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2008, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

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Let's be clear here, I am not trying to defend Stalinism, I am adamantly opposed to it. However, the "Evil Empire" thing served a purpose here (the States). It also serves to paint an entire group of people who were caught up (literally and figuratively) in the crimes of Stalin's USSR as complicit when, in fact, they were the victims of a vast betrayal.
A false dichotomy, as Solzhenitsyn averred in no uncertain terms, even regarding himself.

There was definitely a betrayal, but the Russian people were only vulnerable to it because they were envious of the upper classes, which made them susceptible to propaganda which targeted that weakness.
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It was not inevitable, but came about through a series of betrayals, lies, and murders.
They were certainly betrayed by Stalin, but I'd say they were betrayed by Lenin et al before that.
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The early years of "Soviet Russia", after the civil wars, but before the advent of Stalin's seizing power, showed huge advances- especially considering the level of backwardness at the time of the Revolution itself. It was not perfect, but it *was* moving in the direction of equality.
One could say lots of "progress" was made by the Nazis initially as well; but of course even in Stalinist Russia there was plenty of "progress" if you asked people like Walter Duranty.

All that aside, I don't know why you would call the "evil empire" characterization insane on the basis of the first 7 years of the Soviet regime.
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:27 AM
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One could say lots of "progress" was made by the Nazis initially as well; but of course even in Stalinist Russia there was plenty of "progress" if you asked people like Walter Duranty.

All that aside, I don't know why you would call the "evil empire" characterization insane on the basis of the first 7 years of the Soviet regime.
You call us ignorant of soviet history when you don't even understand how Lenin and Stalin were different people with different policies?

Leninism sucked, yes.

Russian politics has always sucked.

Which sucked worse -- the barely-constitutional monarchy, the outright feudalism that preceded it, the leninism following, or the stalinism shortly thereafter? It's like asking "where would you like to be shot".

Why Lenin is regarded higher than Stalin is, as far as I can tell, mostly because while Lenin had strange ideas, Stalin was an unmistakable paranoid delusional. Lenin's ideas of freedom really don't square with those of any modern democracy, but history remembers that he had some sort of dream. Stalin's contributions to politics and history, on the other hand, are mostly measured in numbers of dead.
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  #21  
Old 08-09-2008, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

And what is in the quote gen as I leave this futile exercise in attempting to educate the terminally stupid?

Quote:
What good fortune for those of us in power that people do not think.
~ Adolf Hitler ~
True story.
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  #22  
Old 08-09-2008, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

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You call us ignorant of soviet history
Not "us". You. ;)
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when you don't even understand how Lenin and Stalin were different people with different policies?
What makes you think I don't understand that?

And what difference does it make anyway? Weren't Hitler and Tojo "different people with different policies" as well?
Quote:
Leninism sucked, yes.

Russian politics has always sucked.

Which sucked worse -- the barely-constitutional monarchy, the outright feudalism that preceded it, the leninism following, or the stalinism shortly thereafter? It's like asking "where would you like to be shot".
Again: what do you know that Solzhenitsyn did not?
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Why Lenin is regarded higher than Stalin is, as far as I can tell, mostly because while Lenin had strange ideas, Stalin was an unmistakable paranoid delusional.
Actually there is no evidence he was anything but a sociopath. He did not falsely believe people were out to get him, because they were. He was a murderer, after all. As for "delusional", he managed his affairs far too adroitly be called that.
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Lenin's ideas of freedom really don't square with those of any modern democracy, but history remembers that he had some sort of dream.
Which he did not live long enough to realize. All the available evidence suggests that Stalin DID realize Lenin's dream.
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Stalin's contributions to politics and history, on the other hand, are mostly measured in numbers of dead.
IOW, other than the fact that he was a mass murderer on a scale never imagined by any of the Czars, there was no significant difference between him and them.

Right? :rolleyes:
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Old 08-09-2008, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

I give this :troll::troll::troll::troll: out of 5 possible. He achieved a high level of participation by people who really should know better. He lost one :troll: for inability to disguise his intellectual bankruptcy.
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

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1984 interview with Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov. A must see for those of you who think Reagan was a hate monger for calling Soviet Russia an evil empire.
ROFL. Because we disagree with your politics, we like the soviets.
I never said anything like that, obviously. And unless you've seen this interview elsewhere (or cracked The Gulag Archipelago, or gleaned from other sources a sane perspective on the Soviet Union, which you obviously haven't) you can't possibly have any idea what I'm getting at.
My family is from there. I've been there twice. I've meet with top officials of the government, toured industrial and academic facilities. Met all during my childhood with dissidents, visitors and have read and studied the culture. My family is supposedly descended from Kiev-Russ royalty. Served as generals in the underground resistance against both the Soviets and the Nazis. Were hunted and killed by both the NKVD and SS and the lucky ones were captured and either sent to Siberian gulags or concentration camps. When my father visited in the mid-eightes he managed to meet up with his father who was living underground in the Ukraine since the war.

But I still have no idea what you are getting at yguy. But of course you are brilliant.
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:27 AM
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Default Re: Blast from the Soviet past

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1984 interview with Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov. A must see for those of you who think Reagan was a hate monger for calling Soviet Russia an evil empire.
ROFL. Because we disagree with your politics, we like the soviets.
I never said anything like that, obviously. And unless you've seen this interview elsewhere (or cracked The Gulag Archipelago, or gleaned from other sources a sane perspective on the Soviet Union, which you obviously haven't) you can't possibly have any idea what I'm getting at.
My family is from there. I've been there twice. I've meet with top officials of the government, toured industrial and academic facilities. Met all during my childhood with dissidents, visitors and have read and studied the culture. My family is supposedly descended from Kiev-Russ royalty. Served as generals in the underground resistance against both the Soviets and the Nazis. Were hunted and killed by both the NKVD and SS and the lucky ones were captured and either sent to Siberian gulags or concentration camps. When my father visited in the mid-eightes he managed to meet up with his father who was living underground in the Ukraine since the war.

But I still have no idea what you are getting at yguy.
If you must resort to such obvious prevarication, the least you could to is be a little more artful about it for the sake of entertainment value.
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