"Given atheists slightly higher than average intelligence..."

[Petra]

...is how a post at IIDB begins.

I'd like to see what studies have been done with regard to this statement. 'Cos I think it's probably crap.

I reckon both stupid people and highly intelligent people would cover the entire religious/non-religious spectrum proportionately according to the demographics of the general population of any given area.

Anyone here know of any scientifically sound studies done regarding theist/atheist levels of intelligence?

[Seven of Nine]

Yeah, it's prob'ly crap, too (my conservative Southern Baptist cousin belongs to Mensa), but I'm afraid I don't know of any studies comparing, say, the WAIS scores of both groups...and that's supposing that you accept the WAIS as a true measure of intelligence.

[Petra]

Me dumb atheist. Had to google "WAIS".

(It's the Western Australian Institute of Sport, for those who also don't know).

[Seven of Nine]

Originally Posted by Petra

Me dumb atheist. Had to google "WAIS".

(It's the Western Australian Institute of Sport, for those who also don't know).

Quick, Petra!
Who wrote Faust?

[Petra]

Randy Newman!

[Seven of Nine]

Quit it, will ya? You made me get Dr. Pepper up my nose.

[Petra]

But he did! I have the album to prove it!

YouTube - How great our Lord

[Seven of Nine]

Originally Posted by Petra

But he did! I have the album to prove it!

:

I admit your video's relevance to Faust escapes me (I'm just a dumb theist, okay?), but it's way cool, and I wanna post one, too, so...

Ray Stevens wrote Faust!

YouTube - Ray Stevens - Would Jesus Wear A Rolex

[Iacchus]

Originally Posted by Petra

But he did! I have the album to prove it!

Sounds more like James Taylor.

[Petra]

Oh, you guys! Now your jus' messin' wit me.

Faust!

(I love Ray Stevens, too).

[Seven of Nine]

Originally Posted by Petra

Oh, you guys! Now your jus' messin' wit me.

Faust!

(I love Ray Stevens, too).

Well, you see: that's the problem. According to the WAIS, there's only one correct answer, and it's not Randy Newman (or Christopher Marlow, who wrote Dr. Faustus). So, are we dumb if we answer Randy or Kit, instead of Goethe?

[Doctor X]

Perhaps thinking about fantasies and realizing they are fantasies is a sign of intelligence; however, I find it rather obvious.

--J.D.

[Seven of Nine]

oops. double post.

[Petra]

Um...should I answer twice?

[Seven of Nine]

Originally Posted by Petra

Um...should I answer twice?

Yes.

Yes.


Thank you for pointing that out!

[Petra]

double post. I blame 7 of 9.


What was the question again?

[Petra]

Originally Posted by Doctor X

Perhaps thinking about fantasies and realizing they are fantasies is a sign of intelligence; however, I find it rather obvious.

--J.D.

Please expand.


I think atheists view of theists overall intelligence is arrogant and based on atheists confirmation bias, etc.

In this study at Reed University (a college with an anti-theist reputation), the admittedly small sample sized study had debatable results.

There are numerous implications here that the opinions and thoughts of those who believe are not necessarily as valuable as those who have no religious tendencies.

[...]

With Christians being continually perceived as less intelligent, their contribution to the campus is less welcome and they will feel less welcome here. Thus, religious and intellectual diversity are curbed due to various implicit and explicit associations. It is somewhat comforting to know that the research was limited in the fact that only a small sample size could be taken. Perhaps if an entire sample of the campus could have been measured, we would be able to find the direct implications of the research. As it happens, it would be very interesting to discuss and explore other modes that may limit diversity at Reed. Is there an implicit association with Republicans and non-intelligence? Do Reedies value the opinions of people from different social and ethnic groups less through implicit or even explicit associations? And does this carry a direct influence on those interested in matriculating at the college? These questions would be interesting to explore in future tests of association.

Take TomJoe, for example. He is a Catholic and a Microbiologist/Molecular Biologist. He's frikkin' light years ahead of me, intellectually speaking! And I am certain that there are many, many others - of all the world's faiths - who are also of far greater intelligence than I and many other atheists. Religion has fuck all to do with it.

[Petra]

Originally Posted by Seven of Nine

So, are we dumb if we answer Randy or Kit, instead of Goethe?

Absolutely not. And anyway, whoever heard of a musical being written by a thyroid disease!

[Iacchus]

Originally Posted by Iacchus

Sounds more like James Taylor.

Originally Posted by Petra

Oh, you guys! Now your jus' messin' wit me.

Faust!

(I love Ray Stevens, too).

Okay, from the same link:

In Randy Newman's musical version of Faust, not even God is safe from the poison baton. Newman has rounded up a bunch of his friends to sing the parts – James Taylor, Don Henley, Elton John, Bonnie Raitt and Linda Ronstadt. And that's pretty close to the roster of the band playing in my idea of hell. Yet Faust turns out to be the best work in years for all involved.

Well, at least I was correct about who was singing it. I wasn't quite sure?

[Petra]

Yup, you were right - it's James Taylor singing.

[Seven of Nine]

Originally Posted by Petra

Please expand.


I think atheists view of theists overall intelligence is arrogant and based on atheists confirmation bias, etc.

In this study at Reed University (a college with an anti-theist reputation), the admittedly small sample sized study had debatable results.

Take TomJoe, for example. He is a Catholic and a Microbiologist/Molecular Biologist. He's frikkin' light years ahead of me, intellectually speaking! And I am certain that there are many, many others - of all the world's faiths - who are also of far greater intelligence than I and many other atheists. Religion has fuck all to do with it.

Non-theist students attending Brigham Young might feel similarly inhibited, especially if they're Democrats, no?

I agree that religion (and politics) has fuck all to do with it, so I wish we all talked more together on message boards, instead of engaging in what is called by the misnomer 'debate'.

Absolutely not. And anyway, whoever heard of a musical being written by a thyroid disease!

This time I wasn't drinking anything.

Surely there are many highly intelligent Americans who have never heard of Goethe. I'm sure I.Q. tests measure something (our ability to do well on tests?), but possibly not intelligence.

[Petra]

If I wasn't German, I may not have heard of Goethe myself. We certainly didn't study him in any of my classes in high school, and I never attended university.

Knowledge and intelligence are not always mutual. Someone may know lots and lots of stuff, but only really know it through others eyes - parrot-fashion, if you will. Someone else may not have had access to tertiary education and not formally studied anything, but are very intelligent in a myriad of ways. And yet others may be extremely well-versed in, say, astrophysics, but dumber than a bag of hair regarding human psychology. etc.

[Iacchus]

Originally Posted by Doctor X

Perhaps thinking about fantasies and realizing they are fantasies is a sign of intelligence; however, I find it rather obvious.

--J.D.

You sir, are a legend in your own mind. You simply don't exist (or you won't) after your brain/body dies. But, then again, why do we refer to "you," as if you were something other than? Hmm ...

[Petra]

I don't get it.

[Iacchus]

If we die and return to oblivion (i.e., non-existence), does that mean the fact that we were here was simply a fantasy? How do we prove otherwise when, in fact, according to oblivion, we were never here? One would think that there be something more substantial to the "we" that possessed the brain and the body. If not, then it was only a figment of its imagination. The only way we could possibly escape our dilemma, is to say that we have a soul, that is in possession of both the brain and the body and, that the soul lives on after death. In which case we have just added substance, to what otherwise had no basis for existence.