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  #3601  
Old 05-05-2016, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
It's amazing to me how you people bend the facts to make it appear that dogs can identify their master without other sensory cues. This is called confirmation bias, but you will have nothing to do with that because you won't allow yourself to be wrong about anything. So for starters, why should I listen to anything else you have to say when you fail to consider that you may not be right here?
This is rich, you accusing others of not being willing to admit the possibility that they could be wrong. You who constantly proclaim that you believe what your daddy wrote in his book, no matter what, and will not even consider any contradictory evidence.
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  #3602  
Old 05-05-2016, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Indeed. So far, she has not been able to explain away any of the myriad evidences that disprove Lessans' claims (her best effort being to whine that "something else must be going on"), nor has she been able to provide any evidence in favor of those claims (insisting, hypocritically, that it's other people's jobs to do so).

But by her hypocritical, Bizarro logic, the problem is that other people are being close-minded.
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  #3603  
Old 05-05-2016, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
Ah, so you cannot/will not back up your claims.

Noted.
All I can offer you is the observations that Lessans made which led him to a different conclusion regarding the eyes. I have said all along that more testing needs to be done. You say the tests have been done. I disagree. If you are so certain he was wrong, then let it go. I'm sure you have better things to do than to argue with a stranger on the internet whom you don't know from Adam. :rolleyes:
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Old 05-05-2016, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
All I can offer you is the observations that Lessans made which led him to a different conclusion regarding the eyes. I have said all along that more testing needs to be done. You say the tests have been done. I disagree. If you are so certain he was wrong, then let it go. I'm sure you have better things to do than to argue with a stranger on the internet whom you don't know from Adam. :rolleyes:
Actually you have given quite a bit of yourself away over the years, so anyone who has been following the threads, knows you quite well.

Since you nor Lessans have ever elaborated on what these observations were, we can only conclude that there were no "observations", in the sense of looking at someone or something. There have been a few "observations", as in his thoughts about some event, but nothing that can be repeated and verified. In fact most of his ramblings can be demonstrated to be wrong.
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  #3605  
Old 05-05-2016, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegirl
If I believe in homeopathy, that doesn't mean everything I write about or believe in is false. You are coming from a flawed position because you have nothing else to argue.
No-one is saying that this means everything you believe must be false.

What we are saying is that if you believe in homeopathy, then that tells us something about the standard of evidence that you require before you believe something. It means, for instance, that you will happily believe something for which there is only anecdotal evidence, which has no known mechanism by which it is supposed to work, and for which no evidence was discovered when it was tested scientifically, but which a lot of people would like to believe works.

This allows us to make an estimation: if you claim something or believe something, we can compare this standard of evidence with our own. If ours is more stringent, then we know we better check whatever you claim before we assume it is likely to be true.

SO in this case, since Alex Jones is a well know conspiracy loon, I do not think it is likely that he is right and I would never take his word for it. I would need some reliable evidence to convince me - a reliable study done by non-loonies would be good.
Your use of the word "loonies" is counterproductive. I was making the point that having a belief in something that has little scientific consensus does not mean that the standard used to determine the validity of another belief is necessarily low. You all have a habit of making sweeping generalities about a person based on little evidence (ironic, huh?), and it's working against you. The number of people you all have disregarded as having nothing valuable to bring to the vaccine debate, is ludicrous. Let me say this: the belief in homeopathy is relatively benign even if it does not confer any healing benefit other than the placebo effect. You may say that it could prevent a person from getting a more timely treatment. Most people would not use homeopathy for a life-threatening condition. Parents are not stupid Vivisectus. Vaccines are a different story. They can cause harm, which is why this issue is not going away.
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  #3606  
Old 05-05-2016, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
Quote:
Quote:
PG, how do you determine if those Alex Jones videos contain reliable information?
They contain reliable information because they're reporting what the vaccine inserts themselves tell us to look out for. They are also reporting what some children have experienced firsthand, right after being vaccinated such as high fever and seizures. This gives us a picture of the dangers to a subset of children without knowing which children will be adversely affected. Why can't you throw caution to the wind and just watch some of the videos? How can I have a decent conversation with you if you won't even look at the articles (by reputable doctors, mind you) and videos that I have shared here. Trust me, nothing bad is going to happen other than getting a better understanding of both sides of this issue, not just your side.
So basically you consider it reliable information because they confirm things you already knew believe?
:fixed:

You've gotta love the standards of evidence:

Scenario #1:
Fact 1: Diseases which had been killing thousands of Americans every year and had not been declining in frequency over the previous few decades showed a sudden and drastic drop in frequency -- in every one of the 50 states -- almost immediately after vaccines for them were introduced.


In a 2001 paper in the Journal of Infection Control:

“The conquest of infectious disease and the health revolution it initiated is arguably one of the greatest achievements of Western civilization. Yet the phenomenon is largely unknown and rarely taught, even in history courses. Conventional wisdom usually assumes that conquest of infectious disease can be credited to well-known lifesaving innovations in medicine such as vaccines, antibiotics, and surgical asepsis. These icons are truly essential ingredients of modern medicine, and their contribution to human life and health in this century can never be minimized. However, except for the smallpox vaccination, which was introduced in 1798 and made compulsory in England in 1853, the overall contribution of medical innovations to the health revolution of the 1800s is difficult to validate. Diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis vaccine arrived on the scene only after disease mortality rates already had been reduced significantly; measles, rubella, and polio vaccines did not become available until the middle of the 20th century, when most infant deaths were the result of other causes. The same holds true for sulfa drugs and antibiotics. Their contribution is unequivocal, but they did not affect mortality rates until the 1940s.” [6]
Another paper published in the premier medical journal The Lancet in 1977 by the Department of Community Medicine in the United Kingdom also indicates that vaccines were not responsible for the decline in disease rates in that country.

“There was a continuous decline [whooping cough deaths], equal in each sex, from 1937 onward. Vaccination, beginning on small scale in some places around 1948 and on a national scale in 1957, did not affect the rate of decline if it be assumed that one attack usually confers immunity, as in most major communicable diseases of childhood. … The steady decline of whooping cough between 1930 and 1957 is predictive of a linear exponential decay characteristic of a general and progressive lessening in the volume and spread of infection among the susceptible population. With this pattern well established before 1957, there is no evidence that vaccination played a major role in the decline in incidence and mortality in the trend of events.”[7]
The author’s conclusion that “there is no evidence that vaccination played a major role in the decline in incidence and mortality” is quite monumental and far different than the general public perception.

cont. at: Health Sentinel - Vaccines


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger
Fact 2: Study after study after study confirms that there is no connection between vaccination and autism. The one study that did make such a claim was hugely flawed and conducted by a lead researcher who had an obvious (and in an egregious violation of medical and scientific ethics, undisclosed) conflict of interest.
If you're really searching for the truth, the least you can do is listen to the man's defense.

Dr Wakefield: Govt. experts have conceded that MMR vaccine caused autism.

http://therefusers.com/refusers-news.../#.Vyt46ISDGkp

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger
Fact 3: Every medical professional understands that not everyone can be safely vaccinated, and consequently, no one advocates mandatory universal vaccination. That's the entire point of "herd immunity" -- to protect those who cannot be safely vaccinated.
That may be all well and good, but what about the children who have adverse reactions to the vaccine? Why can't you address this issue? Is it because your head is in the sand?? :eek:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger
"Logical" Conclusion by Anti-Vaccine Zealot: That's a bunch of hooey being promoted by people who want to make tons of money ... somehow ... by making vaccination mandatory and universal.
Strawman!!! No one is saying it's all a conspiracy to make money. Even if the development of vaccines is well-intentioned does not mean they are all safe for every child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger
Scenario #2:
Claim: I heard from my brother's ex-roommate's second cousin's best friend that her third cousin twice removed had her child vaccinated, and only 2 months later, the kid was diagnosed with a sniffle.

"Logical" Conclusion by Anti-Vaccine Zealot: See? What have we been telling you?! Vaccines are terrible, terrible things!! What more proof could you want?
Who are you kidding TLR! We all know children have had convulsions, fever, high pitched screaming, behavioral changes and sometimes death not long after the vaccine.
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  #3607  
Old 05-05-2016, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Come back to us when you understand what "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" means, and why it's important. Because right now, you just sound like a willful ignoramus.



And by the way, you've managed to spectacularly miss the point. The point is that you're a total hypocrite: You uncritically accept anything -- no matter how flimsily-supported and illogically-argued -- if you think it supports your belief. You ignore all evidence that contradicts your beliefs, no matter how well-supported and repeatedly-confirmed. And then you have the gall to accuse others of being "close-minded."


That is why people find you so hypocritical and unpleasant to deal with.
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  #3608  
Old 05-05-2016, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by peacegirl View Post
You all have a habit of making sweeping generalities about a person based on little evidence and it's working against you.

Let me say this: the belief in homeopathy is relatively benign even if it does not confer any healing benefit other than the placebo effect. You may say that it could prevent a person from getting a more timely treatment. Most people would not use homeopathy for a life-threatening condition.

Parents are not stupid Vivisectus. Vaccines are a different story. They can cause harm, which is why this issue is not going away.
Members of this forum are making statements about your standards of evidence, or lack of standards, based on the posts that you have made on this forum over the years. And there has been quite a bit of evidence that you apply a double standard. High for ideas that you don't like, and very low for ideas that fit what you already believe.

Homeopathy is not benign and sometimes it's harmful, especially when people use it instead of traditional medicine. Homeopathy does delay people from getting diagnosed for serious diseases when it claims that ineffective treatments will take care of a condition when it has no effect at all.

Many parents are quite ignorant of modern medical practice and should take the advice of real medical professionals, not some crackpot who is just trying to make money by selling "natural" remedies or books.
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  #3609  
Old 05-05-2016, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger View Post
Come back to us when you understand what "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" means, and why it's important. Because right now, you just sound like a willful ignoramus.



And by the way, you've managed to spectacularly miss the point. The point is that you're a total hypocrite: You uncritically accept anything -- no matter how flimsily-supported and illogically-argued -- if you think it supports your belief. You ignore all evidence that contradicts your beliefs, no matter how well-supported and repeatedly-confirmed. And then you have the gall to accuse others of being "close-minded."


That is why people find you so hypocritical and unpleasant to deal with.
I'm sorry to disappoint you but this has nothing to do with a post hoc fallacy. You are just as guilty of confirmation bias as you believe I am, so don't get so high on your horse. If I stick you with a needle, and your arm turns red and swollen, you can bet that the injection had something to do with it. Is insulting me all you can do? Why can't you listen to Andrew Wakefield's defense so there is some meat to the conversation? You won't do it because you won't be able to get away with your non-answers.
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Old 05-05-2016, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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"post hoc, ergo propter hoc"
Interesting, and it is quite surprising how many people believe this to be true.
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  #3611  
Old 05-05-2016, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Dr Wakefield: Govt. experts have conceded that MMR vaccine caused autism
:laugh:

Guess what commonly used abbreviation above does not apply to anti-vax celebrity Andy Wakefield.
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  #3612  
Old 05-05-2016, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Why can't you listen to Andrew Wakefield's defense so there is some meat to the conversation? You won't do it because you won't be able to get away with your non-answers.
You do know who you're talking to, don't you?

I have read Wakefield's original paper -- and I have read his "defenses." I'm almost-certainly far more familiar with both his claims and his "defenses" of those claims than you are.

Can you explain why his original claims are fraudulent, and why his "defense" fails utterly? I can, and I have.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Quote:
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Why can't you listen to Andrew Wakefield's defense so there is some meat to the conversation? You won't do it because you won't be able to get away with your non-answers.
You do know who you're talking to, don't you?

I have read Wakefield's original paper -- and I have read his "defenses." I'm almost-certainly far more familiar with both his claims and his "defenses" of those claims than you are.

Can you explain why his original claims are fraudulent, and why his "defense" fails utterly? I can, and I have.
His defense does not fail utterly. He never claimed causation. So go ahead, tell me why his "defenses" failed. I am still asking you to watch the video so we can be on the same page.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

May 5, 2016

N.Y. Law Professor Addresses U.N. on Government Vaccine Policies Violating the Nuremberg Code


Mary-Holland-UN
Law Professor Mary Holland addressing the U.N. regarding civil rights related to government vaccine policies.

Comments by Brian Shilhavy
Health Impact News Editor

New York University research scholar and law professor Mary Holland recently addressed the United Nations at the 25th International Health and Environment Conference.

Professor Holland has been one of the lone voices in the U.S. addressing the legal ramifications of removing parental rights to informed consent for childhood vaccines. She has previously written for Health Impact News on this issue. See:

Killing the Messenger: U.S. Vaccine Law and Policy

Professor Holland sees major civil rights issues involved in government vaccine policies that remove informed consent rights to refuse mandatory vaccinations. She reminds the United Nations that history has shown us the results of such overt government intrusion into personal medical rights. World-wide human rights legislation has been put into place to protect individuals from government intrusion into medical abuse, starting with the Nuremberg Code just after the atrocities of Nazi Germany after World War II.

Professor Holland states:

[T]he UN and the international community have obligations to respect human rights related to vaccination.

Since World War II, the international community has recognized the grave dangers in involuntary scientific and medical experimentation on human subjects. In the aftermath of Nazi medical atrocities, the world affirmed the Nuremberg Code which stated that the “voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential.” The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights further enshrined this prohibition against involuntary experimentation in its 1966 text, stating “no one shall be subjected without his free consent to medical or scientific experimentation.” Such a prohibition is now so universally recognized that some courts and scholars have pronounced the right to informed consent in experiments as a matter of customary international law.
Watch Professor Holland’s entire 16 minute presentation to the United Nations, in which she received several ovations from the audience.

cont. at: N.Y. Law Professor Addresses U.N. on Government Vaccine Policies Violating the Nuremberg Code
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  #3615  
Old 05-05-2016, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

Did he claim causation? Of course not. If you think that any medical journal would have accepted an article which made such a bold claim -- especially on such scant evidence -- then you're demonstrating (once again) that you have zero understanding of how science works.


Did he strongly imply causation in the paper? He most certainly did. Did he strongly imply causation in his public statements to an even greater extent? He most certainly did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From the original paper
Onset of behavioural symptoms was associated, by the parents, with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination in eight of the 12 children, with measles infection in one child, and otitis media in another. All 12 children had intestinal abnormalities, ranging from lymphoid nodular hyperplasia to aphthoid ulceration. Histology showed patchy chronic inflammation in the colon in 11 children and reactive ileal lymphoid hyperplasia in seven, but no granulomas. Behavioural disorders included autism (nine), disintegrative psychosis (one), and possible postviral or vaccinal encephalitis (two).
Quote:
Originally Posted by From the original paper
We identified associated gastrointestinal disease and developmental regression in a group of previously normal children, which was generally associated in time with possible environmental triggers.
Note that he later argued that gastrointestinal disease and autism are causally linked; he also argued that the MMR vaccine is causally linked with gastrointestinal disorders. Thus, he was strongly implying a causal link between MMR vaccination and autism.

He couldn't come right out say there was a causal relation, of course, because no responsible journal would ever have published such a claim. But he did everything short of that.


From the original paper: Table 2, which clearly tries to establish that there is a link between MMR and autism. Sure, he never came right out (in this paper, anyway) and claimed that there's a causal link, but he does everything in his power to suggest that there is. He even goes so far as to say that MMR vaccination was an "apparent precipitating effect" for development of autism. Which, for those not familiar with the language used in such journals is basically saying: "Yeah, we're pretty sure that the MMR vaccination was responsible, we just can't prove it."


Quote:
Originally Posted by From the original paper
In eight children, the onset of behavioural problems had been linked, either by the parents or by the child's physician, with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From the original paper
Both the presence of intestinal inflammation and absence of detectable neurological abnormality in our children are consistent with an exogenous influence upon cerebral function. Lucarelli's observation that after removal of a provocative enteric antigen children achieved symptomatic behavioural improvement, suggests a reversible element in this condition.

There's quite a bit more, actually. While he never said in the original paper that MMR vaccination is causative when it comes to autism, he strongly implies that time and time again. Basically, he came as close to doing so as he could without making a causal claim that would have gotten the paper instantly rejected by any responsible medical journal.


Why would any responsible medical journal have instantly rejected such an article? Because that's a very strong claim, requiring very strong evidence to back it up -- something that the paper in question [even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that the claims it made were actually true] came nowhere near to providing.


And he was a lot less circumspect about suggesting a causal link between vaccination and autism when speaking and writing for less specialized, less technical outlets.
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:35 PM
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:56 PM
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we're done.
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:57 PM
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:catlady:

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Old 05-05-2016, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Did he claim causation? Of course not. If you think that any medical journal would have accepted an article which made such a bold claim -- especially on such scant evidence -- then you're demonstrating (once again) that you have zero understanding of how science works.

Did he strongly imply causation in the paper? He most certainly did. Did he strongly imply causation in his public statements to an even greater extent? He most certainly did.

There's quite a bit more, actually. While he never said in the original paper that MMR vaccination is causative when it comes to autism, he strongly implies that time and time again. Basically, he came as close to doing so as he could without making a causal claim that would have gotten the paper instantly rejected by any responsible medical journal.

Why would any responsible medical journal have instantly rejected such an article? Because that's a very strong claim, requiring very strong evidence to back it up -- something that the paper in question [even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that the claims it made were actually true] came nowhere near to providing.

And he was a lot less circumspect about suggesting a causal link between vaccination and autism when speaking and writing for less specialized, less technical outlets.
Careful now, Peacegirl will try to use this to prove that the establishment is suppressing anyone who speaks out against the status quo, no matter how flimsy or fraudulent the evidence is. I would suspect that she is preparing a post right now, as soon as she can find some more flimsy evidence.
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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Did he claim causation? Of course not. If you think that any medical journal would have accepted an article which made such a bold claim -- especially on such scant evidence -- then you're demonstrating (once again) that you have zero understanding of how science works.


Did he strongly imply causation in the paper? He most certainly did. Did he strongly imply causation in his public statements to an even greater extent? He most certainly did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From the original paper
Onset of behavioural symptoms was associated, by the parents, with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination in eight of the 12 children, with measles infection in one child, and otitis media in another. All 12 children had intestinal abnormalities, ranging from lymphoid nodular hyperplasia to aphthoid ulceration. Histology showed patchy chronic inflammation in the colon in 11 children and reactive ileal lymphoid hyperplasia in seven, but no granulomas. Behavioural disorders included autism (nine), disintegrative psychosis (one), and possible postviral or vaccinal encephalitis (two).
Quote:
Originally Posted by From the original paper
We identified associated gastrointestinal disease and developmental regression in a group of previously normal children, which was generally associated in time with possible environmental triggers.
Note that he later argued that gastrointestinal disease and autism are causally linked; he also argued that the MMR vaccine is causally linked with gastrointestinal disorders. Thus, he was strongly implying a causal link between MMR vaccination and autism.

He couldn't come right out say there was a causal relation, of course, because no responsible journal would ever have published such a claim. But he did everything short of that.


From the original paper: Table 2, which clearly tries to establish that there is a link between MMR and autism. Sure, he never came right out (in this paper, anyway) and claimed that there's a causal link, but he does everything in his power to suggest that there is. He even goes so far as to say that MMR vaccination was an "apparent precipitating effect" for development of autism. Which, for those not familiar with the language used in such journals is basically saying: "Yeah, we're pretty sure that the MMR vaccination was responsible, we just can't prove it."


Quote:
Originally Posted by From the original paper
In eight children, the onset of behavioural problems had been linked, either by the parents or by the child's physician, with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From the original paper
Both the presence of intestinal inflammation and absence of detectable neurological abnormality in our children are consistent with an exogenous influence upon cerebral function. Lucarelli's observation that after removal of a provocative enteric antigen children achieved symptomatic behavioural improvement, suggests a reversible element in this condition.

There's quite a bit more, actually. While he never said in the original paper that MMR vaccination is causative when it comes to autism, he strongly implies that time and time again. Basically, he came as close to doing so as he could without making a causal claim that would have gotten the paper instantly rejected by any responsible medical journal.


Why would any responsible medical journal have instantly rejected such an article? Because that's a very strong claim, requiring very strong evidence to back it up -- something that the paper in question [even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that the claims it made were actually true] came nowhere near to providing.


And he was a lot less circumspect about suggesting a causal link between vaccination and autism when speaking and writing for less specialized, less technical outlets.
To be fair, you really need to listen to his side of the story. If you will do this, then we can talk.

Dr Andrew Wakefield tells his side of the story in the MMR Vaccine causes Autism debate - YouTube
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

What on Earth makes you think that I haven't?
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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It must be an ... interesting ... experience to ask peacegirl for the time.

Sane person: "Here are two timepieces. The first has a satellite uplink that allows it to constantly update itself by checking the official time with the National Institute of Standards and Technology. What's more, it automatically corrects for whatever time zone it happens to be in, using a GPS signal. It's guaranteed to be accurate to plus or minus 0.01 nanoseconds. As you can see, it is currently running, and it shows that it has a strong satellite signal to the NIST and three GPS satellites."

"The second timepiece is an old wind-up watch. The crystal is shattered and the face is rusted. The second hand is missing and it isn't ticking, suggesting that it's not working at all. It was designed and built by someone who had no watchmaking experience and, in fact, was unable to tell time."

"So, which do you think will give a better approximation of the correct time?"


peacegirl: "Well, we all know that even the best-designed timepiece can be mistaken. We also know that a stopped clock is right twice per day."

"So obviously, the second timepiece is more likely to be correct. Anyone who says otherwise is a close-minded meanie."


By the way, peacegirl, if you think that I'm belittling your astonishing hypocrisy, your willful ignorance, and your ludicrously low standards of evidence when it comes to things that you want to believe ... then you should go with that feeling.
Of course a clock that isn't running properly would not designate the correct time. What does this have to do with the price of eggs? :confused:
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  #3623  
Old 05-05-2016, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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What on Earth makes you think that I haven't?
He has quite a few videos. I just posted this one and it's over an hour long.
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  #3624  
Old 05-06-2016, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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What on Earth makes you think that I haven't?
Peacegirl is an idiot who projects all her faults onto others, so of course she doesn't think you've seen any of his videos. She hasn't looked at any of the videos that you have posted or referred to, and then she will lie about it.
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  #3625  
Old 05-06-2016, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Parents, do your due diligence on vaccination! There are serious risks!!

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To be fair, you really need to listen to his side of the story. If you will do this, then we can talk.

Dr Andrew Wakefield tells his side of the story in the MMR Vaccine causes Autism debate - YouTube
He's speaking at a book store that probably makes money selling his bogus books, at least he's selling more than you are selling your father's books. The profit motive certainly speaks volumes about his motivation on this subject.
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