Neurological differences

[LadyShea]

I know, for a fact, that Kiddo has some kind of neurological difference/disorganization. I am not hysterical or reading into things. It's there, I've always known it is there, but because it hasn't presented as language problems, academic learning difficulties or behavioral issues, it was way easier to just brush off.

With him it is mostly physical. He holds and uses utensils, pencils, and tools awkwardly, he has pronounced mixed dominance, he is clumsy when he runs and walks, but he skips really well. He has problems gauging and sensing pressure-meaning he has trouble opening bottles and pop-top cans, using a rag or towel or brush, "feeling" if his clothes, socks, shoes, or gloves are on or going on correctly. Buttoning, zipping, snapping, and tying all still elude him...even velcroing is usually done loosely and unevenly. He has trouble folding paper and towels. He is still prone to bed wetting because he simply doesn't wake up. Alarms/sounds don't wake him up...I have to physically shake him, or even manhandle him into sitting up or standing up for him to become awake.

He can become adequate at some things (like writing and swimming) with frequent repetition, but other things just don't click no matter how many times he does them.

I cannot find any resources to help me help him as everything is geared towards the language/behavioral/academic side of things. Nobody even really takes me seriously because he is so able and capable in so many ways. Some seem to think it is laziness or our spoiling him by a failure to "make him" do these things, neither of which is the case

I found this which seems somewhat relevant, but is also woo.

[Angakuk]

I had the bed wetting problem well into late childhood. I too was (and still am) a very sound sleeper. I finally figured out that when I needed to pee I would dream about having to pee. The dreams were either about actually peeing or trying, with a notable lack of success, to find a place to pee. Eventually I learned to wake myself up when I was having one of those dreams. I still have those dreams when I need to pee, but since I have learned to wake myself up I no longer wet the bed.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

I found this which seems somewhat relevant, but is also woo.

Why do you think this is Woo? The last section is especially true, my mother grew up at a time when left handedness was seen as something to be corrected, but my grandparents stood up to the school and they left her write with whatever hand she chose. Of course it helped that my grandfather was on the school board. most of what is in that article, I have read or heard before and I don't think much, if any, of it is woo. It might be worth looking into seriously. The idea that the brain is organized for different functions in different parts of the brain has been established and is being studied. Part of the discussion with Peacegirl has involved the visual cortex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_cortex

[LadyShea]

The information seems okay, but it is written by a naturopath who provides unlicensed and unregulated treatments and therapies. I distrust non-evidence based medicine.

Thanks to some research by a friend, I am looking into dyspraxia. I think he may have a very mild form of it.

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by Angakuk

I had the bed wetting problem well into late childhood. I too was (and still am) a very sound sleeper. I finally figured out that when I needed to pee I would dream about having to pee. The dreams were either about actually peeing or trying, with a notable lack of success, to find a place to pee. Eventually I learned to wake myself up when I was having one of those dreams. I still have those dreams when I need to pee, but since I have learned to wake myself up I no longer wet the bed.

Before you pee, every time, jump. Just hop in place or jump off a step or whatever. If you're asleep, it should wake you up. If you're not asleep, you just look a little bit stupid maybe.

This also works when monsters chase you.

I hope you people fully appreciate my releasing my valuable intellectual property into the public domain like this.

[LadyShea]

Odd, most of the dyspraxia info I am finding is from the UK, like 90%. Wonder if it's called something else here, or if it is not as recognized here or what?

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by thedoc

Why do you think this is Woo? The last section is especially true, my mother grew up at a time when left handedness was seen as something to be corrected, but my grandparents stood up to the school and they left her write with whatever hand she chose. Of course it helped that my grandfather was on the school board. most of what is in that article, I have read or heard before and I don't think much, if any, of it is woo. It might be worth looking into seriously. The idea that the brain is organized for different functions in different parts of the brain has been established and is being studied. Part of the discussion with Peacegirl has involved the visual cortex.

Visual cortex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It seems pretty weird that this guy jumps to the conclusion that correlation between mixed dominance and learning disabilities implies that the mixed dominance is causing them.

I don't pretend to know these things myself, but it seems that, if there is a strong correlation between the two things, it would be worth considering that they might have some other root cause, or that the causation goes the other way. That is, that damage or deficits in brain functions cause the brain to compensate for the deficits by routing around them.

There have been a lot of credible studies showing that neuroplasticity is key to recovering from strokes or other brain damage, so it seems reasonable that you'd at least entertain the notion that mixed dominance is adaptive, and that it could be beneficial in the long run.

Here's an article implying that mixed dominance has advantages:

Eide Neurolearning Blog: The Benefits of Mixed-Dominance...Lefties, Dyslexics, and Gaming

[LadyShea]

Mixed dominance is correlated with all kinds of neurological differences...it's a symptom or a sign of some sort I would assume.

[Ari]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

With him it is mostly physical. He holds and uses utensils, pencils, and tools awkwardly, he has pronounced mixed dominance, he is clumsy when he runs and walks, but he skips really well.

Interesting, a few guess suggestions, find things for him to do that help with overall bodymapping, like Karate or dance.

I had a number of similar issues as a kid, but I don't think for the same reasons. At one point I got obsessed with making 1000 paper cranes, which I think also helped my fine motor control as I remember 1000 being much nicer looking than 1.

Laterality of the Brain

Interesting, and almost certainly wrong.

[LadyShea]

He was in martial arts as a preschooler, which was good for him, and is currently swimming (he did dance class for a while, but we didn't like the program). Swimming requires coordinated and repeated movements on both sides of the body, and is not unpredictable (no need for quick reflexes) like most ball/team sports. As seems to happen with him, he struggled a lot then suddenly it seemed to click last week and his strokes improved greatly in a single day.

He actually has a great natural sense of rhythm and mood with music. He changes his dance style to match the music automatically.

[Qingdai]

Frequently combined with ADD and other things, is Sensory processing disorder. It's not a recognized condition, as sensory integration disorder is, but it does have some therapies and some research, at least in the initial stages. It sounds like he has some fine motor control issues. Pretty much every one has some sensory "issues," but when it impedes your daily living it becomes more of a disorder.

Sensory Processing Disorder Explained | SPD Foundation

Individual results may vary, some of this stuff worked for my kid, some didn't.

[LadyShea]

So, so, so much quackery in these fields. I can't find any resources from a non-suspicious source.

[lisarea]

What are you looking for?

[LadyShea]

I am looking for evidence based information on dyspraxia (what I have been able to find puts Kiddo def on the mild end of this. It seems to be called developmental coordination disorder here). I am looking for local evaluators in the University systems because private practitioners that even mention it are iffy on the woo scale. I am looking for exercises to do at home that might help.

I contacted some self proclaimed experts, one of whom I know is in high demand from parents but whose credentials I am having a difficult time vetting, and 1 told me essential fatty acids and midline crossing exercises (which I can try easily), and another told me to pay for a Skype consult (further research indicates this one is a total quack). I contacted a developmental psychology student and was told it is not an area of research in the US.

[lisarea]

Dyspraxia doesn't seem to usually be a disorder in itself, though, especially not on the mild end.

It's just a sort of academic term for a specific type of clumsiness, really. It's useful for research if you're looking for super-specific information, but it doesn't look like the sort of term that you're going to find a lot in the wild accompanied by practical advice.

It's sort of like I tend to have a hard time recalling the names of things. It's not a big thing or anything that needs to be diagnosed and treated like a medical condition. Lots of people have that, and that's why we have words like thingamajig and gee-gaw and whatshisface. But I used to think it was super-hilarious to tell people that I suffer from nominal aphasia and it is CRUEL to make fun of me when I forget a word. (I stopped doing that when I realized that some people thought I was serious.)

Nominal, or anomic aphasia is actually a thing that's been studied and researched and is a frequent symptom or effect of various types of brain injuries and disorders. But that doesn't mean that everyone who forgets the words for things has a disorder.

Almost everyone forgets a word or something from time to time, and everyone is on the aphasia spectrum, just as everyone is on the spectrum of coordination disorders or any other spectrum for that matter.

And realistically, even people with fairly severe disabilities usually use the same two basic approaches, anyway: Adaptations and practice. So you make accommodations and adaptations to work around things you're bad at, and when possible, you practice those things to get better at them. Adaptations like velcro shoe fasteners, and practice in the form of little games and exercises using the skills he's not good at. IOW, mostly things you're already doing.

If you're looking for practitioners who will treat mild dyspraxia like a medical condition or something, you'll probably attract quacks and hucksters. You'll probably get the best ideas just looking for games and exercises for improving motor skills.

[LadyShea]

His issues are so specific and clustered that it is helpful to me to have a name and to know that it is a Thing and not just some various unrelated things. I am not looking for medical treatment, but specific exercises that address the root problem. Like Brain Integration Therapy includes the midline crossing...but is it quackery? Is it worth buying an expensive book? Should I just wing it like I have been?

Bottom line, for me, is answering the question "Am I doing the right things in the right amounts and doing everything I can?" with an unqualified YES.

I know I am uptight and overanxious and all that shit, but doing this process (research and act) is the only way I can sleep at night. Seriously. I am this way about everything, but with Kiddo it turned up to 11

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

I know I am uptight and overanxious and all that shit, but doing this process (research and act) is the only way I can sleep at night. Seriously. I am this way about everything, but with Kiddo it turned up to 11

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but maybe give Kiddo a break and spend some energy on looking into treatments for your issues?

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Like Brain Integration Therapy includes the midline crossing...but is it quackery? Is it worth buying an expensive book? Should I just wing it like I have been?

When you take into account how little scientists actually know about the brain and how it works, then compare it to what these people claim to know: Quackery. Crackpottery. Chicanery.

There is a lot of money in preying on parents' fears and anxiety, and that's exactly what those people seem to be doing. None of the people I found seem to have any medical training or other relevant academic qualifications or anything, but they're hawking their programs as some sort of magical cure-all for what appears to be the top ten most Googled developmental disorders or something. (Also, weirdly, there seems to be some sort of connection to fundamentalist Christianity or something.)

Short of drug therapy or surgical intervention for certain specific things, the only things that help with disabilities, mild or severe, are accommodations and practice.

[LadyShea]

My issues are me being me and I have found coping mechanisms in researching and talking it out like this. Once I feel comfortable with my level of knowledge and action I will stop worrying about this issue. You guys tend to see the ugliest part of my process, and I'm sorry for that. I posted once about all these possible scenarios are constantly playing in my head? They stop (on specific issues) once I whittle it down to only a few possible outcomes via knowledge and action that might affect the outcome (I have to do what I can). As for treatment. How do you treat imagination ? But, I've seen therapists and psychiatrists at various times in my life for various reasons (or known them in a non-therapy context), and all thought I was very healthy, except one psychiatrist (I went to see him for anti-depressants that could be taken temporarily to help with a specific situation) who thought my problems were due to my not having gone to college.

Kiddo's issues are just him being him, I know that. I have found coping mechanisms for my issues, and I want to help him cope as well. That's my goal. I do not put this stress on him at all. I don't force him to practice writing or tying shoes or do any kind of drills or anything like that.

We bought a game that uses a little tiny top instead of dice. We've been playing that because spinning that top takes practice and skill and small motor coordination. We play Just Dance. His shoes are Velcro. His pants are either elastic waist or have a snap he can fasten himself. I print him specially lined paper (like the 3 lined Kindergarten paper only not enormous) for his homework as it helps him feel more comfortable writing when he doesn't have to guess at size and placement. He uses his iPhone to type little stories and send messages and such. I let him play video games more than other moms (hand eye coordination and he loves them). He thrives on structure and clear instruction and boundaries, so I ensure he has that...being on a swim team rather than just swimming, for example.

[Qingdai]

If you want to see a professional, who can do fine motor assessment appropriate for kiddo's age, see an occupational therapist.

There are a bunch of on line fine motor skills activities they can recommend or you can access on line. Light bright, hiding items in thera-putty (play dough) basically, the occupation of kids is play, so an occupational therapist that works with kids is pretty reasonable. The one we saw did gross motor activities and then fine motor skills.

Not all kids develop at the same level, Qingdai jr. is 8 and still can't tie his shoes or ride a bike, his handwriting is atrocious for his age and it causes him a ton of frustration to write. If you child isn't bothered by these things, and is happy, it's not a big deal.

[huntress]

This Wiki write-up on proprioception--which seems to be part of Kiddo's problem--has a few suggestions.

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[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

My issues are me being me and I have found coping mechanisms in researching and talking it out like this. Once I feel comfortable with my level of knowledge and action I will stop worrying about this issue. You guys tend to see the ugliest part of my process, and I'm sorry for that.

I get that. You guys see the worst of me, too. Nothing to be sorry for.

[Angakuk]

Get him a yo-yo.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Qingdai

Not all kids develop at the same level, Qingdai jr. is 8 and still can't tie his shoes or ride a bike, his handwriting is atrocious for his age and it causes him a ton of frustration to write. If you child isn't bothered by these things, and is happy, it's not a big deal.

This is very true, my grandaughter was not talking at age 2 and everyone thought it was a problem. But it wasn't that she couldn't, but was just stubborn and refused to talk, now we can't shut her up, except when she takes a nap. On the other hand starting at age 3 she pretty much potty trained herself and now has very few accadents, usually because she is doing something she doesn't to stop. The standard scheduel, Isn't for all children, let the child develop at his own pace, don't be in such a hurry for him to grow up, he will do it too soon anyway.

[Angakuk]

This little anecdote is probably not particularly relevant to Kiddo's issues, but the what the hell, since I'm here I might as well share it.

I don't know the precise ages, but according to my mother she (my mother, that is) was verbally precocious but was very late in learning to walk. She attributes both of these to the fact that she had two older brothers who doted on her. She learned to talk so that she could order them to carry her around, thus she didn't need to learn how to walk. After both brothers started school she lost her free rides and was motivated to begin walking.

Something similar happened to me with regards to reading. My big sister used to read the Sunday comic strips to me. One day (I was in 1st grade at the time) she told me it was time for me start reading for myself and she stopped reading to me. Lo and behold, I suddenly discovered that I knew how to read. Obviously I was already reading along with her as she read to me, I just wasn't motivated to do the reading for myself until she cut me off cold-turkey.