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  #1751  
Old 07-03-2011, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME (Jerry) Soetoro View Post
Hey Erimir, will you now admit that under Bush the tax burden shifted to the wealthiest tax payers?
Hey Jerome, you forgot to source the chart you posted:
Heritage Foundation Reports- 10 Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
He is also ignoring several other possible explanations for the data on income tax - for example, if the top 20% become wealthier during that four-year period, while the other quartiles stay the same or become less wealthy, one would expect to see exactly that kind of shift in actual taxes paid, even if the rates were lowered across the board. If the difference is significant, you would expect to see such a change even if the rates of the top 20% were lowered more than the rates for the other quartiles.

The data does not contain that information, of course, so we would have to go to other sources to find out, but to put up the graph and then claim it as evidence that Bush increased your taxes is unsupported at best, and probably deliberately disingenuous.
Exactly.
David Cay Johnston in the NYT 2006:
Quote:
Incomes in 2004 did rise above those in 2003, with an overall average gain of 6.8 percent. The average year-over-year increases from 2003 to 2004 ranged from 1.8 percent for the poorest fifth of Americans to a 27.5 percent increase for the top tenth of 1 percent.
...>snip<...
Incomes after 2000 fell the most among those at the top of the income ladder.

The top one-tenth of 1 percent, about 130,500 taxpayers, reported their average income fell almost 17 percent, to just under $4.9 million each in 2004. Because of the tax cuts after-tax incomes fell by a significantly smaller amount, 12.1 percent.

Still, those very top households, which include about 300,000 Americans, reported significantly more pretax income combined than the poorest 120 million Americans earned in 2004, the data show. This was a sharp change from 1979, the oldest year examined by the I.R.S., when the thin slice at the top received about one-third of the total income of the big group at the bottom.

Over all, average incomes rose 27 percent in real terms over the quarter-century from 1979 through 2004. But the gains were narrowly concentrated at the top and offset by losses for the bottom 60 percent of Americans, those making less than $38,761 in 2004.

The bottom 60 percent of Americans, on average, made less than 95 cents in 2004 for each dollar they reported in 1979, analysis of the I.R.S. data shows.

The next best-off group, the fifth of Americans on the 60th to 80th rungs of the income ladder, averaged 2 cents more income in 2004 for each dollar they earned in 1979.

Only those in the top 5 percent had significant gains. The average income of those on the 95th to 99th rungs of the income ladder rose by 53 percent, almost twice the average rate.

A third of the entire national increase in reported income went to the top 1 percent — and more than half of that went to the top tenth of 1 percent, whose average incomes soared
so much that for each dollar, adjusted for inflation, that they had in 1979 they had $3.48 in 2004.

Because of cuts in the tax rate, the top tenth of 1 percent did even better than their rising incomes alone would suggest.
For each inflation-adjusted dollar they had after tax in 1979 they had $3.94 left after taxes in 2004.
Or we could go back to Jerome (Jerry) Soetoro's claim regarding Bush tax cuts. CBS News, Feb 2009:
Quote:
(CBS/AP) President Bush's tax cuts since 2001 have shifted more of the tax burden from the nation's rich to middle-class families, according to a study released Friday by the Congressional Budget Office.

The tax rate declined across all income levels — but more so in the top brackets, the report said.

The study found that the effective tax rate for the top 1 percent of taxpayers dropped from 33 percent in 2001 to 26.7 percent this year, a decline of 19 percent. The middle 20 percent of taxpayers saw a decline of 4 percent.
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  #1752  
Old 07-03-2011, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Wait, easily discoverable facts showing that Sociological Experiment is a lying shitbag?

This changes everything.
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  #1753  
Old 07-03-2011, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

You people need to stop reading the memes you are given and look at what actually happened.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Social Security (FICA) Wage Limits and Tax Rates

That is an extra almost $4,000 in FICA tax yearly from the beginning of the Bush term the the end of his presidency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
You want to talk about the Alternative Minimum Tax?

In 1997, for example, 605,000 taxpayers paid the AMT; by 2008, the number of affected taxpayers jumped to 3.9 million, or about 4% of individual taxpayers. A total of 27% of households that paid the AMT in 2008 had adjusted gross income of $200,000 or less.


:wave:
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  #1754  
Old 07-03-2011, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Chunks, you are showing that incomes went down, that is a reflection of inflation moving faster then wages, another tax on the working man to pay for the transfer of wealth to the elite.
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  #1755  
Old 07-03-2011, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

And then the tax burden shifted to the top 20%!
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  #1756  
Old 07-03-2011, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckF View Post
And then the tax burden shifted to the top 20%!
You retards need to start understanding that wealth is not income, once you figure that out you might have a chance.
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  #1757  
Old 07-03-2011, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Wealth is having stuff with value in an exchange.

Income includes money, which generally has value in an exchange. So it can be a measure of a portion of wealth.
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  #1758  
Old 07-03-2011, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

And then the currency transfer made the inflation tax from the Fed birth certificate first dollar wealth HIV color! Workers meme FICA percent.
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  #1759  
Old 07-03-2011, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

teachers
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  #1760  
Old 07-03-2011, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

library!
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  #1761  
Old 07-03-2011, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME (Jerry) Soetoro
You retards need to start understanding that wealth is not income, once you figure that out you might have a chance.
You fools need to stop believing the meme that falling from a great height kills people, I have learned that it is very important to deride anyone suggesting this and explain importantly that it is the point when they stop falling that kills people. Until you dolts learn this I can do nothing for you. And I also oppose safety railings for this same reason.
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  #1762  
Old 07-03-2011, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Your shame, without people like myself that understand and create actual wealth, people like most of you would have little of what you now have.
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  #1763  
Old 07-03-2011, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

And without people like you, our jobs wouldn't have been sent to India, China, and Mexico.
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  #1764  
Old 07-03-2011, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME (Jerry) Soetoro View Post
You people need to stop reading the memes you are given and look at what actually happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME (Jerry) Soetoro View Post
Social Security (FICA) Wage Limits and Tax Rates
That is an extra almost $4,000 in FICA tax yearly from the beginning of the Bush term the the end of his presidency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME (Jerry) Soetoro View Post
Chunks, you are showing that incomes went down, that is a reflection of inflation moving faster then wages, another tax on the working man to pay for the transfer of wealth to the elite.
That's not reflected in the data. The FICA cap increase is actually based on wage increases.
Quote:
This limit, known as the Social Security Wage Base, goes up each year based on average national wages and, in general, at a faster rate than the Consumer Price Index (CPI-U).
When you compare the percentage increases in the CPI-U (the primary index for determining inflation levels) to the percentage increases for the Social Security Wage Base during the Bush years (2000-2009), the wages outpace inflation for the Bush years.
You can view national average wages by year here as well; and when you calculate percentage changes in average wages from year to year, during the majority of the Bush years the percentage increase was greater than the CPI-U.

So once again, :rolleye2: actually the opposite of what you are claiming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME (Jerry) Soetoro
you are showing that incomes went down
In a discussion of the particular period of 2000-2004, which was the dot-com crash and 9/11, and increased outsourcing of tech industry jobs overseas, which certainly did reduce incomes.
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  #1765  
Old 07-04-2011, 01:15 AM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch's dad View Post
And without people like you, our jobs wouldn't have been sent to India, China, and Mexico.
All of the jobs I have created have been local. I have never paid a labor tax in any country other then the USA.
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  #1766  
Old 07-04-2011, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
All of the jobs I have created have been local.
Hey me too.
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  #1767  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

That's such a fucking idiotic and monstrous view, Gnome. Basically, us serfs should be glad for the crumbs that trickle down to us, is that what you're saying?

I worked my ass of for years as an engineer, designing products that made many millions of dollars for the parent companies--most of whom, year after year, ran the companies into the ground while paying themselves multimillion dollar salaries.

I'm not so naive that I take the communist line that only workers create the wealth, but I do think that they create the lion's share of it.

And so fucking what if you personally never shipped a job overseas? Your high-and-mighty statement was about "us people who create the wealth". Try actually reading and thinking about what is being discussed.

The GDP of the U.S. has doubled since 1980, and middle class wages haven't grown more than a tiny amount during that time. The income of the wealthiest Americans has doubled during that time. That is simply wrong, and if you don't recognize that, you're an oligarchist who deserves nothing but contempt.

In the context of the original thread topic, you ought to be ashamed that 60 million Americans have no health care. My brother who lives with me is a great example. He has worked as an electrician for many years, and because he can't find work in this economy, he cannot get treatment for the seizures that began two weeks ago. That is just plain wrong.
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  #1768  
Old 07-04-2011, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch's dad View Post
I cry. I need others to care for me.
Typical, blaming everyone else for your fails.
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  #1769  
Old 07-04-2011, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Gooch, what did you do will all that money you made as an engineer?
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  #1770  
Old 07-04-2011, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Gooch, here is the real reason for the troubles you see.

But the thing is, you will defend government and the Federal reserve like the dope you have been educated to be.

I have no compassion for someone that supports that which harms them. You are a masochist.

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  #1771  
Old 07-04-2011, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch's dad View Post
[Jerome] deserves nothing but contempt.
You don't seem to be familiar with JDG - we've all known that for some time.
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  #1772  
Old 07-04-2011, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

The parasite always has contempt.
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  #1773  
Old 07-04-2011, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

At the link you can read up on John Dewey’s Theories of Education.

You have been educated to have contempt. What is most interesting is that despite learning the purpose of the education you received and the emotional state you find yourself in now, you will deny, and claim it is a natural response.

Education should give every child the chance to grow up spontaneously, harmoniously and all-sidedly. “Instead of trying to split schools into two kinds, one of a trade type for children whom it is assumed are to be employees and one of a liberal type for the children of the well-to-do, it will aim at such a reorganization of existing schools as will give all pupils a genuine respect for useful work, an ability to render service, and a contempt for social parasites whether they are called tramps or leaders of ’society.’ “Such a definition did not please those who looked upon themselves as preordained to the command posts of the social system.

John Dewey’s Theories of Education
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  #1774  
Old 07-06-2011, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch Munny View Post
teachers
Yabbut ...

........


Some people might question the propriety of ganking a worldview from a video game character for trolling purposes. I am not one of those people.
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  #1775  
Old 07-06-2011, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Health Care Reform Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Gooch, what did you do will all that money you made as an engineer?
Why is that any of your fucking business?
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