My son is being taught creationism in science class!

[maddog]

nm
#1764

[biochemgirl]

ITSOZ, I have to respectfully disagree. While I see what you are saying, I think it's important to stand up this time and I think it's important to do it now. What better way to empower his son? This is not a time to just go along with the flow for the sake of peace and I don't think doing so is going to make things any easier on his son.

Something about the mixing of government and religion and even moreso while one is incarcerated and has no other choice but to be subject to it just doesn't sit well with me. I don't think I could just let that one go even if it only is for the time being.

[Rocky]

Originally Posted by Dingfod

]I hope when your son is incarcerated they teach him actual SCIENCE.

Why? Evolution isn't going to help or rehabilitate anyone.

[BracesForImpact]

Originally Posted by Rocky

Why? Evolution isn't going to help or rehabilitate anyone.

It's not evolution that I'm worried about (I do realize you weren't responding to me, but anyhow), it's the quality of education while he is there. The state has the responsibility to educate him irregardless of whether he is doing time or not because he is a minor.

My son recently took and failed his GED pre-test. He actually didn't do as badly as I feared he might, but how many of those questions that he missed were science questions? I requested his scores in writing some time ago, I just haven't received them yet.

For me it's an issue of misinformation. What is he supposed to put if one of the questions asks "Approximately how old is the planet earth?" for example.

[yguy]

Originally Posted by BracesForImpact

...while my son was in his mothers' care in the fine state of Missouri, he was forced to ...

Originally Posted by BracesForImpact

Gawd forbid they're Dr. Dino videos or I might just lose it!

Rather odd what evokes a "final straw" sort of outrage in some people.

I know your question was largely rhetorical, BFI, but $1 says Rocky answers anyway and proves your point. Maybe you should print out this thread and use it in making your case against the numbnuts "educating" your boy?

[Rocky]

Originally Posted by BracesForImpact

It's not evolution that I'm worried about (I do realize you weren't responding to me, but anyhow), it's the quality of education while he is there. The state has the responsibility to educate him irregardless of whether he is doing time or not because he is a minor.

My son recently took and failed his GED pre-test. He actually didn't do as badly as I feared he might, but how many of those questions that he missed were science questions? I requested his scores in writing some time ago, I just haven't received them yet.

For me it's an issue of misinformation. What is he supposed to put if one of the questions asks "Approximately how old is the planet earth?" for example.

If I'm not mistaken, you did say they were teaching both evolution and creationism. Also, without knowing his exact scores and results, it's all just guessing at this point as to which questions he actually missed. For all we know he answered the science questions exactly as they'd like.

[yguy]

Originally Posted by biochemgirl

ITSOZ, I have to respectfully disagree. While I see what you are saying, I think it's important to stand up this time and I think it's important to do it now. What better way to empower his son?

Just how would making an issue of this accomplish that?

[BracesForImpact]

Originally Posted by yguy

Rather odd what evokes a "final straw" sort of outrage in some people.

The Dr. Dino comment was a crack at humor Yguy, admittedly poor.

You know, I don't post all that much, why do my threads bring out all the...oh never mind.

[Dingfod]

Originally Posted by Rocky

Why? Evolution isn't going to help or rehabilitate anyone.

Neither is ignorance.

[ZEZOZE]

my name is michael stanton. i am not anonymous. i offered my advice to benefit your son, whether you agree with it or not. i did not do it for an audience.

i am sorry for what happened to your son. i said that already. i also said i wish the best for him...i still do.

Originally Posted by BracesForImpact

You know, I don't post all that much, why do my threads bring out all the...oh never mind.

Because honest need is blood in the water for the craven nibblers in this life.

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by Uthgar the Brazen

Because honest need is blood in the water for the craven nibblers in this life.

you should put that in the quote generator...really.

[California Tanker]

I'm not convinced there's a civil rights argument for ACLU to interface with. Technically speaking, they're not showing preference to the religion if they're not giving it any more than equal time to evolution. We may all consider creationism to be stupid, but arguably it cannot be scientifically disproven as a theory. Good luck on damage control for re-converting your kid back to the more generally accepted school of thinking.

NTM

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by yguy

Just how would making an issue of this accomplish that?

What they are doing is illegal. It would empower his son to see that authority figures, when wrong, can be held accountable and there are proper ways of addressing it.

How can you tell him the law is to be respected and obeyed, if you simply sit down and shut up when it's broken...by someone with authority over his life.

"Okay son, you have to obey the law, but the State doesn't". What does that teach him?

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

I'm not convinced there's a civil rights argument for ACLU to interface with. Technically speaking, they're not showing preference to the religion if they're not giving it any more than equal time to evolution.

It has been held in court cases that Intelligent Design is just repackaged creationism and therefore religion and can't be taught in science classes.

[Ari]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

I'm not convinced there's a civil rights argument for ACLU to interface with. Technically speaking, they're not showing preference to the religion if they're not giving it any more than equal time to evolution.

But they are certainly giving it equal time compared to other creation myths.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

I'm not convinced there's a civil rights argument for ACLU to interface with. Technically speaking, they're not showing preference to the religion if they're not giving it any more than equal time to evolution. We may all consider creationism to be stupid, but arguably it cannot be scientifically disproven as a theory. Good luck on damage control for re-converting your kid back to the more generally accepted school of thinking.

NTM

Not since Katzmiller vs. Dover Area School District.

According to the federal judge, teaching 'Intelligent Design' is the same as teaching 'Creationism'. It's a violation of the First Amendment of the US Constitution and violates the separation between church and state.

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

What they are doing is illegal. It would empower his son to see that authority figures, when wrong, can be held accountable and there are proper ways of addressing it.

How can you tell him the law is to be respected and obeyed, if you simply sit down and shut up when it's broken...by someone with authority over his life.

"Okay son, you have to obey the law, but the State doesn't". What does that teach him?

fine and dandy, but why can't that wait until he is out?

it isn't going to scar him. there are more things to worry about than that.

his son is an inmate. how do you think it's going to go for him when his dad starts making waves? how do you think the staff might react? what if they single him out? this isn't the boy's fight, but he might have to. how is that going to help him while he is inside?

have you asked your son what he thinks?

cooler heads prevail...wait until he is out. you will still have your fight. you will have your evidence. maybe it will give you something to bond over. i don't know, but it doesn't seem like people are thinking this through...

[yguy]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

What they are doing is illegal.

It's nothing of the sort, for reasons I've stated here many a time.

It would empower his son to see that authority figures, when wrong, can be held accountable and there are proper ways of addressing it.

The young man described herein is not likely to be able to discern the alleged wrongness of his teacher's conduct for himself, in which case the only thing he'll see is that authority figures can get into trouble whether they do wrong or not. Furthermore, if he has any regard for this teacher, he may see his father as the bad guy for getting him in trouble. And that's without considering the pressure he'll be subjected to as a witness for the prosecution.

Looks like a lose-lose deal to me.

Originally Posted by California Tanker

I'm not convinced there's a civil rights argument for ACLU to interface with. Technically speaking, they're not showing preference to the religion if they're not giving it any more than equal time to evolution.

Well, let's ask Ymir's blood to comment about who's getting what sort of preference...

We may all consider creationism to be stupid, but arguably it cannot be scientifically disproven as a theory.

It cannot be scientifically tested as a hypothesis by its own definitions. Ergo, it is not science and doesn't belong in a science class any more than my using Alan Moore's Promethea no matter how intriguing I find said writer's speculations about evolution, magic and everything.

Good luck on damage control for re-converting your kid back to the more generally accepted school of thinking.

The "more generally accepted school of thinking?" How's cave living on Mars?

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by yguy

It's nothing of the sort, for reasons I've stated here many a time.

The young man described herein is not likely to be able to discern the alleged wrongness of his teacher's conduct for himself, in which case the only thing he'll see is that authority figures can get into trouble whether they do wrong or not. Furthermore, if he has any regard for this teacher, he may see his father as the bad guy for getting him in trouble. And that's without considering the pressure he'll be subjected to as a witness for the prosecution.

Looks like a lose-lose deal to me.

And that, BracesForImpact, should be all the advice one needs to proceed as you have already planned. As noted, should either you or your child experience any untoward backlash, it should serve for even greater reprimand, and possibly even significant punitive damages.

Not only have most court cases ruled against such poopadoodle as 'intelligent design', public backlash, in Kansas and in Dover, has made it clear that the majority of publics, when they know what is going on, disposes of those introducing such invalid and misbegotten curricula into school science programs.

[ZEZOZE]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

As noted, should either you or your child experience any untoward backlash, it should serve for even greater reprimand, and possibly even significant punitive damages.

that's very easy for you to say.

so you don't think, for the sake of the boy, that they should wait a couple of months? you think that any harm of any sort that should come his way is worth the fight?

did he ask to fight?

yguy may generally be a worthless puddle of rancid dog vomit (Die soon and painfully, big guy! Gropes 'n kisses in the love of Christ!), but the grease-trail it mistakes for its existence has led us to use of the word "poopadoodle."

I am briefly cheered and grateful.

[California Tanker]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

According to the federal judge, teaching 'Intelligent Design' is the same as teaching 'Creationism'. It's a violation of the First Amendment of the US Constitution and violates the separation between church and state.

Not binding in Indiana, although after hunting around a little, Indiana has Hendren v. Campbell which basically says Creationism is a violation and it would need a Dover-type holding to convert it over to cover ID. Fair enough, I sit corrected.

NTM