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  #76  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:42 AM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

I was reading a blog earlier and the writer spoke of how she chose the most 'eye searing' color of pink that she could find. It was almost enough to make me post a comment that it wasn't pink but magenta but then I remembered why I was reading it in the first place and kept my peace.
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Old 05-31-2011, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

I think that a lot of the time men are socialized not to care about aesthetics. A man who cares too much about fashion or appearance is a dandy, or the new label, metrosexual. Which makes me throw up a little in my mouth because the connection they are making is clear. Remember that Queer eye for the Straight guy show? Same with design and to an extent cooking. Male chefs are a different social level, that is a profession, but how many men enjoy cooking or baking as a hobby? That is considered women's work. The exception of course is bar-be-que and all the stupid marketing around that. Sewing, crafting, knitting all have gender bais, for no good reason. It took me a long time to get C over the idea that craft isn't real art, because he viewed as a lesser form.

I guess my point is that even if men can tell the difference between robin's egg and sea foam, they are conditioned not to recognize or express it. Just like tall girls are encouraged to wear flats.
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  #78  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Huh, all the guys here I know cook. Not just BBQ either.
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Old 05-31-2011, 07:17 AM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
There is some truth, though, to women generally having better color perception because they have two X chromosomes, which is where color perception is coded. And men, only having one, are more likely to have color blindness.
I have red-green stigmatism (rather than having only two types of cones, which would result in total red-green colorblindness, one of them is "misshapen" so there is reduced red-green contrast - in my case, it's slight enough that I didn't realize I had it until I was in high school).

That's not enough to prevent you from distinguishing many more colors than the basic color words of the English language (black, grey, white, red, blue, yellow, green, orange, purple, pink, brown).

That's also by far the most common type of color blindness.

I mean, it's obviously a factor, but I think the social conditioning is probably more important.
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  #80  
Old 05-31-2011, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

That chart about guys not knowing colors is stupid, stupid, stupid. Period. i remember going to my dad's office and marveling that all the colored markers had different names on them (I was very young at the time, and just learning to read, he was an art director). Since I've been around advertising, art and printing my whole life, I know scads of men that are quite competent at color identification.
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  #81  
Old 05-31-2011, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

I think cooking is almost past the gender-stereotype barrier, at least here in Ireland and the UK. Most of the 30-somethings I know both cook.
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Old 05-31-2011, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

One more note on the color thing. Hubby flat doesn't care. The names of subtle color variations are not a factor in anything that is important to him, so he doesn't bother to differentiate between coral and salmon....because why would he?

He sees colors fine, and is even choosy when picking colors for his projects.

Also, I like this Kitty lady
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None of my children are gender-free or genderless (and neither am I). It is true that my oldest son Jazz does not have a traditional notion of what boys should wear, look like or do. It is also true that we believe our children should have the right to choose their clothes and hairstyle. Jazz has a strong sense of being a boy, and he understands that his choices to wear pink and have long hair are not always acceptable to his community. He chooses freely to do them anyway, because he also has been taught to respect difference, love himself and navigate the world in a way that is true to his own voice. Kio also strongly self identifies as a boy, and his choices around behaviours and image are different but have an equal amount of two-year-old integrity.

Storm has a sex which those closest to him/her know and acknowledge. We don’t know yet about colour preferences or dress inclinations, but the idea that the whole world must know our baby’s sex strikes me as unhealthy, unsafe and voyeuristic.

Storm is my third child and this is what I know — some day soon, Storm will have something to say about it, so in the meantime, I’m just listening carefully.
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  #83  
Old 05-31-2011, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Yeah, project color selection with men is p. normal, another reason I hated that joke as car enthusiasts know sea foam and British racing green and whatevs. And when a man's profession calls for it is understood.

In the cooking example I meant more in terms of seeing it as a creative or expressive endeavor rather than a chore. Outside of professional cooks I know most men will cook the basics but not really explore ingredients or recipes. It took me forever to encourage my guy to be creative and explore in the kitchen. Baking still seems to be outside most men's comfort zone. What is more interesting is that while some objected in terms of the kitchen, no one argue is arguing fashion.

I just noticed that mom's name is Kitty. Wonder if that has anything to do with her decision. I can't say I see it as voyeuristic. It is just one of those things that communities want to know. Just like profession, there is some utility in a.group knowing that information which I think os deeply engrained.
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  #84  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

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Originally Posted by Demimonde View Post
I know most men will cook the basics but not really explore ingredients or recipes. It took me forever to encourage my guy to be creative and explore in the kitchen.
Kind of a side-track, but I have a lot of trouble exploring and experimenting in the kitchen, but not because I view it as a chore. I love cooking, and eating things I cooked well. But, I hate when something I cook doesn't turn out well. Though this attitude doesn't come up in any other area of my life, I find that I weigh the risk of a different approach not working out when I'm cooking more heavily than the possibility of finding a new or better way to cook something. It's just too big a risk for me, so I stick to tried-and-true stuff.

It's a problem I'm trying to get over, 'cause there's lots of recipes for things like cookies that just aren't quite right to my mind, and I feel like they could be fixed with a little tweaking, but I don't really know where to begin, and then I think of all the potentially wasted flour, eggs, chocolate chips, etc., and I just keep making them the same way or try to find a different recipe altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
One more note on the color thing. Hubby flat doesn't care. The names of subtle color variations are not a factor in anything that is important to him, so he doesn't bother to differentiate between coral and salmon....because why would he?

He sees colors fine, and is even choosy when picking colors for his projects.
I do that too. I paint models sometimes, and other projects where particular shades feel important to me, but I don't care in the slightest what they're called. I'll usually just call a color by the name of the closest major color, maybe amended with -ish or something. I can tell the difference just fine, though.
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  #85  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

yeah, I thought my reaction to a male friend's sudden interest in cakes and cake decorating was interesting--it was very, Huh, I wouldn't have thought that he would want to do that, based only on the reason that he was a guy. Apparently, he and his wife watched one of those cake boss like shows or something, and then he decided to try his hand at it. It was interesting, and no one fb-publicly really said anything except "Wow, that looks good."

It's kind of the same thing as when my brother figured out how to make a flower arrangement that he saw at some restaurant my parents took him to--my mom was surprised. She would never have given two thoughts about it if I had done it, but because it was my brother, it was remarkable. I'm not sure exactly why it is so remarkable for my brother in particular, since he enjoys knowing how things are put together and doing things for himself. "I bet I could do that." is like our family motto, anyway.
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  #86  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Dudes do get gender policed a lot.

“Some Men Just Need to be Slapped”: Policing Masculinity Sociological Images

And I'm sure the color perception perception is part of that. As you guys pointed out, yeah, most men can and do distinguish subtle color variations when they are motivated to, so when they claim not to make those distinctions, it's probably just some kind of proscription that they're complying with, where, if they used that type of terminology or expressed strong opinions about the colors of their bedsheets or something, someone would call them a lady and slap the man back into them or something.

Similarly with sustenance cooking--like regular, making food for your family every day kind of cooking as opposed to gourmet or specialty cooking. Men have always been chefs. In fact, that's still a male dominated field, whereas women were the ones traditionally tasked with making regular meals at home.

That does seem to have evened out pretty significantly in recent years, but part of it is because fewer women are doing that sort of cooking now.
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  #87  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:20 PM
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At least we are coming to the end of the era where every last damn wife in every damn TV show is sassy and smart, while ever husband is slightly dumb, immature and impulsive. God that was getting old.
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  #88  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demimonde View Post
I know most men will cook the basics but not really explore ingredients or recipes. It took me forever to encourage my guy to be creative and explore in the kitchen.
Kind of a side-track, but I have a lot of trouble exploring and experimenting in the kitchen, but not because I view it as a chore. I love cooking, and eating things I cooked well. But, I hate when something I cook doesn't turn out well. Though this attitude doesn't come up in any other area of my life, I find that I weigh the risk of a different approach not working out when I'm cooking more heavily than the possibility of finding a new or better way to cook something. It's just too big a risk for me, so I stick to tried-and-true stuff.
Ooh! Ooh! You should try Julia Child's techniques. I don't know if all her books are designed this way, but the French Chef ones start out with basic formulas. Making a simple chicken stock or a pie crust or white sauce or whatever, and then gradually expanding on those skills as you master them. That's pretty much the traditional approach to becoming a competent cook, like pre-Fanny Farmer style.

Cooks Illustrated and America's Test Kitchen are also good about testing out and explaining techniques (plus they have a recipe for the Only Chocolate Chip Cookies I Have Ever Liked), and Alton Brown (who sucks) also does a pretty good job of explaining the underlying principles of cooking. As long as you don't turn into one of those ridiculous fanboiz who think that every recommendation he makes is some kind of Cold Hard Fact, I won't even fight you.
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  #89  
Old 05-31-2011, 07:05 PM
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I highly recommend Child's The Way to Cook. It is a more modern update of her presentation of base recipes with tweaks. The recipe is the skeleton and then you can play around with the flavors. It also has been modified with healthier versions of her pound of butter, quart of cream stuff.

Now pop quiz, who do you assume wrote this post? :muahha:

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  #90  
Old 05-31-2011, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Return to Gender 101

From Gender 101 to Julia Child in fewer than 4 pages. :fflove:
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  #91  
Old 05-31-2011, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Vivisectus View Post
At least we are coming to the end of the era where every last damn wife in every damn TV show is sassy and smart, while ever husband is slightly dumb, immature and impulsive. God that was getting old.
That is a really annoying trope.

Do you see what the root of that convention is?
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:07 PM
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Zeke told me he liked pink and i said, "Where's your rainbow, fag?"
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  #93  
Old 05-31-2011, 08:31 PM
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I can only hope his response was "Shut up, nigger."
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  #94  
Old 05-31-2011, 09:45 PM
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It's a problem I'm trying to get over, 'cause there's lots of recipes for things like cookies that just aren't quite right to my mind, and I feel like they could be fixed with a little tweaking, but I don't really know where to begin, and then I think of all the potentially wasted flour, eggs, chocolate chips, etc., and I just keep making them the same way or try to find a different recipe altogether.
You may want to check out CookWise and BakeWise. Both are by Shirley O. Corriher. She wrote them to explain the science behind cooking and baking. They are very informative.
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Old 05-31-2011, 09:45 PM
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The above post was in no way GAY.


Ok, maybe a little.
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  #96  
Old 05-31-2011, 10:10 PM
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I bought hubby How to Cook Everything by Mark Bittman. There're base recipes for just about everything imaginable, basic techniques, then lots of ideas for tweaking and customizing. It's been a great resource for us :)
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  #97  
Old 05-31-2011, 10:45 PM
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i'm a complete girl when it comes to things like clothes or smelling good. i like going to art galleries and use scrubs on my face... i've been a sissy since before it was metro. i even have a salmon coloured shirt. who cares? just do what you want to do. some things shouldn't enslave or liberate us.

and BrotherMan...your reply nearly made me spit out my mint julep. :D
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:17 PM
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I got Joy of Cooking from my fairy godmother and it's perfect. I don't care about recipes, I just want to know how do you bake a potato? How do you steam an artichoke? I learned to cook from a can or box and I didn't learn the basics of whole foods. Joy is ideal for that.
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:21 AM
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This just in: I found a 1971 copy of Joy of Cooking in the recycling yesterday.

See Gender studies to dumpster diving in 4 pages!
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:33 AM
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I bought hubby How to Cook Everything by Mark Bittman. There're base recipes for just about everything imaginable, basic techniques, then lots of ideas for tweaking and customizing. It's been a great resource for us :)
I highly recommend his Best Recipes In The World.
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