#19026  
Old 06-26-2020, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

And can you guess these countries, which are entirely literal translations:
Yhdysvallat
Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta
Yhdistyneet arabiemiirikunnat
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  #19027  
Old 06-26-2020, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
naming the whole for a part
Infraction! One of my admittedly idiopathic sins is passing up the opportunity to use the word synecdoche in casual conversation.
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  #19028  
Old 06-26-2020, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisarea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
naming the whole for a part
Infraction! One of my admittedly idiopathic sins is passing up the opportunity to use the word synecdoche in casual conversation.
I only demurred from using that fine word because I have a moderately strong feeling there's another word for naming a country after a part of it.

This constitutes my appeal against your infraction.

In further news, I have upheld my appeal
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  #19029  
Old 06-26-2020, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

What about naming a country after the whole continent it is in? :monocle:
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  #19030  
Old 06-26-2020, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Were any country so self-important as to do this, it would certainly be another kind of metonymy.

None of the various pages about synecdoche that I've looked at give names of countries as examples, but pages about the (broadly synonymous) term pars pro toto do give several. Such as "GB" meaning the whole of the UK, as if Northern Ireland is a negligible add-on, or the word for "England" applying to the whole of Britain or even the whole of the UK. I'm pretty sure there are a couple of other countries in Britain although I cannae recall just noo.
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  #19031  
Old 06-26-2020, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Iím afraid Finns are surrounded

Norwegian Tank Strikes House, Tank Wins

Train collides with tank south of Stockholm

Minsk tank crash demolishes pole, road

British 'tank' crashes into German couple's garden fence - BBC News

by idiots.
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  #19032  
Old 06-26-2020, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Were any country so self-important as to do this, it would certainly be another kind of metonymy.

None of the various pages about synecdoche that I've looked at give names of countries as examples, but pages about the (broadly synonymous) term pars pro toto do give several. Such as "GB" meaning the whole of the UK, as if Northern Ireland is a negligible add-on, or the word for "England" applying to the whole of Britain or even the whole of the UK. I'm pretty sure there are a couple of other countries in Britain although I cannae recall just noo.
England seems to have a number of Quebecs.
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  #19033  
Old 06-26-2020, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Tanks Kam.
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  #19034  
Old 06-27-2020, 05:13 AM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
France is Ranska but there's a reason for that too.
That reason would be phonotactics and borrowing from Swedish franska. Although in Swedish, that means French, and France is Frankrike.

Finnish did not traditionally like consonant clusters in syllable onsets (lots of English loanwords have changed this to some extent, and perhaps more widespread knowledge of Swedish, although obviously contact and borrowings from Swedish would extend centuries back). Residentti Rump could tell you all about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
And can you guess these countries, which are entirely literal translations:
Yhdysvallat
Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta
Yhdistyneet arabiemiirikunnat
I'm guessing USA, UK and UAE.

Because kuning is Swedish for "king", so I assume kuningaskunta is "kingdom".

arabi-emiiri-kunnat is obviously Arab-Emirate-something, so clearly the yhd- element is something to do with "united", although it seems to take somewhat different forms in the three names.

Which then lead me to believe that the first one was the USA because it's the other common "United" country.
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  #19035  
Old 06-27-2020, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: Miscellany

You are correct in all points!

Except that the Finnish word for president is presidentti. Recent loan words don't lose initial consonant clusters although quite a few are pronounced colloquially with only one initial consonant - don't know if that applies to presidentti.

Yhdistynyt and plural yhdistyneet do indeed mean "united" and are derived ... via several steps ... from yksi one. Not sure why the name for the USA has a different form but it seems yhdys- is a prefix not a standalone word.
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  #19036  
Old 06-29-2020, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Miscellany

TikTok now has Prince's entire song catalog - The Verge
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  #19037  
Old 06-29-2020, 08:56 AM
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Default Re: Miscellany

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Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Residentti Rump could tell you all about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Except that the Finnish word for president is presidentti. Recent loan words don't lose initial consonant clusters although quite a few are pronounced colloquially with only one initial consonant - don't know if that applies to presidentti.
The other thing (and this bothers me) is that very few Finnish words end with a consonant. (In the base form - plurals, possessives and other forms often do.) So if we're going to sort out Trump's initial consonant cluster, then we should also sort out Rump's ending.

Residentti Rumppa.
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  #19038  
Old 06-29-2020, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
that very few Finnish words end with contain a consonant.
:fixed:
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  #19039  
Old 06-29-2020, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
that very few Finnish words end with contain a consonant.
:fixed:
Prkl!
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  #19040  
Old 06-29-2020, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post

Residentti Rumppa.
No, it is - respectfully - Presidentti Troomp, all right, but then the last word just hangs there in the air, awkwardly and anxiously, forever awaiting a vowel to save it or until we start talking about something else.

We miss Obama more than you can know. :deepsigh:
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  #19041  
Old 06-29-2020, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miisa View Post
No, it is - respectfully - Presidentti Troomp, all right, but then the last word just hangs there in the air, awkwardly and anxiously, forever awaiting a vowel to save it or until we start talking about something else.
If that's not relentlessly Finnish, I don't know what is. :finnish:

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  #19042  
Old 06-29-2020, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
that very few Finnish words end with contain a consonant.
:fixed:
Prkl!
YOU ARE! :glare:
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  #19043  
Old 06-29-2020, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miisa View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post

Residentti Rumppa.
No, it is - respectfully - Presidentti Troomp, all right, but then the last word just hangs there in the air, awkwardly and anxiously, forever awaiting a vowel to save it or until we start talking about something else.

We miss Obama more than you can know. :deepsigh:
Respectfully-aggressively.
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  #19044  
Old 06-29-2020, 02:49 PM
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We miss Obama more than you can know. :deepsigh:
At this point I even miss Bush. :blank:
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  #19045  
Old 06-29-2020, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miisa View Post
We miss Obama more than you can know. :deepsigh:


At this point I even miss Bush. :blank:
Fun fact: Finnish does not differentiate well between sibilants, so it makes little difference to us whether it is bush, buss or buzz. Presidentti Buzz.
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  #19046  
Old 06-29-2020, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Also the letter 'b' does not occur in native Finnish words - and if it did would participate in consonant gradation (changing into each other depending on what suffixes follow) with 'p' the way d, t and tt do, and g, k and kk do.

So he might as well be Presidentti Puss.
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  #19047  
Old 06-29-2020, 09:34 PM
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  #19048  
Old 06-29-2020, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erimir View Post
Residentti Rump could tell you all about it.
Except that the Finnish word for president is presidentti. Recent loan words don't lose initial consonant clusters although quite a few are pronounced colloquially with only one initial consonant - don't know if that applies to presidentti.
Presidentti is given as an example on Wikipedia of a modern loan word that is usually pronounced with a consonant cluster, among all but the least educated/most monolingual speakers, but that you can hear it pronounced as residentti.

At any rate, Resident Rump is a better moniker than President Trump, no?
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  #19049  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: Miscellany

Residentti Perse.
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  #19050  
Old 07-01-2020, 01:51 AM
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Get the message


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